Your Opinion On Student Loan Forgiveness
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No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright.
Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees.
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.
1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit.
2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful.
3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!
She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.
4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem.
5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.
1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit.
2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful.
3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!
She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.
4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem.
5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023.
I think you're right in that the main issue is the skyrocketing cost of college tuition
1) why should a student get more forgiveness just because they chose to go to a more expensive school? Why should a student get more forgiveness because they chose to pursue graduate level degrees? It would seen that doing it on a % basis would make it so that each student DOESN'T get the same benefit.
2) couldn't hurt
4) Not sure about the "old enough" statement. We're saying that people at that age aren't even old enough to drink beer, but they're old enough to independently sign up for life crippling student loan debt? Some students aren't even 18 by the time they start college.
And to the other point, if I wasn't getting a practical degree worth the cost for the school I chose my parents wouldn't have helped contribute as much at they did. The investment would need to pay off.
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Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm retired you stupid cockaholic.
What I alluded to was how much in taxes I would, and have paid this yr.
You pay taxes when you sell businesses and properties you moron. You pay taxes on your current properties dumbass. You pay tangible taxes on items and inventory within your businesses. You pay sales tax on goods that are sold that leave your business' property. You pay taxes for being self employed. etc etc. I paid a LOT of taxes. That's not "bragging" you fuckin imbecile! That's complaining! Get your facts straight before my name comes out of your mouth.
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
I think the whole process has to be reevaluated and reformed frankly. Some of these things that people are paying far out the ass to go to college for shouldn't even be offered. Theres like four to five professions that college is truly necessary to perform. Medical, engineering, law, finance, research science... I'm sure there's maybe a couple others. Any and all of the rest could be covered by apprenticeship and maybe workshops here and there.
Rooking kids into years and years of debt to give them a worthless degree in art or marketing or music or, you know. Whatever you name it is a pure scheme and I would bust that shit up in a hurry. Kick it down to trade schools or even lower.
I spent seven years in com-nav in the air force and simultaneously got a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and while I didn't pay full price for college on account of the gi bill it still wasnt cheap, and the truth is I ended up learning far more in the field from the guys who came before me and the reason for that is because i was considerably more serious at that time. More ready to learn and achieve. And now at 42 I'm the guy who's doing the ojt and teaching the younger guys how to do the job. I believe in that model. It worked for human beings as long as jobs/skills/trades have been a thing. The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
I think kids out of high school should do a rumspringa like the Amish do. Alright kid, go out there and live it up. Sow your wild oats. Come back and see me when you get serious.
Don't get straight into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree in identity studies...there's not enough of a market for something like that. Not a degree in art or marketing. You either have the talent or you don't. Anyone can pass the class the question is do you have the talent?
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I think the whole process has to be reevaluated and reformed frankly. Some of these things that people are paying far out the ass to go to college for shouldn't even be offered. Theres like four to five professions that college is truly necessary to perform. Medical, engineering, law, finance, research science... I'm sure there's maybe a couple others. Any and all of the rest could be covered by apprenticeship and maybe workshops here and there.
Rooking kids into years and years of debt to give them a worthless degree in art or marketing or music or, you know. Whatever you name it is a pure scheme and I would bust that shit up in a hurry. Kick it down to trade schools or even lower.
I spent seven years in com-nav in the air force and simultaneously got a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and while I didn't pay full price for college on account of the gi bill it still wasnt cheap, and the truth is I ended up learning far more in the field from the guys who came before me and the reason for that is because i was considerably more serious at that time. More ready to learn and achieve. And now at 42 I'm the guy who's doing the ojt and teaching the younger guys how to do the job. I believe in that model. It worked for human beings as long as jobs/skills/trades have been a thing. The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
This ^
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon.
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I don't think anybody probably has a complaint with lowering the a p r.
WSS
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Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
1 I don't remember Axe saying anything of the sort.
2 it is my way of framing it because I think it's true. College students have a tendency to be condescending little snots. And looking down their noses at people in trailer parks who work low-paying jobs.
3 don't be silly I've never denied there are differing values to degrees. Still people with work ethic are more successful. More successful than someone that got a social promotion high school diploma. It will be the same deal with 4 more years is free with absolutely no reason to work hard or not work hard. Especially, if you know this happens, the government has to pay your rent and food while you are in college. And the institutions of Higher Learning which really are businesses will find some way for dimwits to pass a class or two to keep the government-run money pouring in. And no doubt s*** happens. If there are too many marketing majors the demand goes down. But if everybody has an associate's or bachelor's degree and something then those degrees won't mean anything. Then the government has to pay for Masters and doctorates. As far as prestige? Then the deadbeats will be crying but they have to have a degree Stanford or Yale or Harvard and that Cleveland State just doesn't cut the mustard.
4 back to the previous reply. High schools find a way to pass people. If college is now paid for by the government colleges will find a way to pass people. And if it's free school Prestige no longer plays A Part.
5 whether or not you will still be Engineering in a few years you still got that job with your degree. You probably wouldn't have gotten that with a degree in clarinet.
6 And I will continue to rant about free shit because the demand from you people will never end. It will never be enough. Not for the 'poor' people or for the politicians pretend to want to help them or the liberal guilty White people who enjoy wringing their hands and feeling superior to those of us who think poor people are by and large a combination of stupid lazy and unlucky. But that's really another subject. I can't help it if the marketing plan of the Institutes of Higher Learning has been successful in making their product overpriced. People make bad or unlucky decisions about Investments all the time.
WSS
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So most of the time I guess I like Elon Musk pretty well. I just saw a blurb supposedly from him which does make sense. This is a paraphrase: an 18 year old can't take out a $10,000 business loan but he can take out a $100,000 student loan and that's the problem. Or a problem.
(I may have added that he's also not seen as having his shit together well enough to be trusted with a beer or a pack of cigarettes.)
WSS
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I have six figures in student loan debt and the means to pay it back. If Uncle Sam insists the taxpayer subsidize it, I'm not so dogmatic that I'd turn it down. The boomers got their education and homes cheap; they also got that social security teat. Now, homes and tuition are the highest they've ever been. Social Security won't be there when I need it. Why shouldn't I be selfish here?
The demographics of the country dictate that complete student loan forgiveness is a matter of when and not a matter of if. Millennials are the biggest generation since the boomers. It will be paid off at the expense of Generation X, who will not have the votes to overcome the never-ending debt constituency. College isn't getting any cheaper, and I'd expect the zoomers will be siding with their parents over their grandparents on this issue.
College is a racket.
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Boomers got homes cheap? In the 70's and 80's a interest on a home loan was in the teens. You had to make a lot of money to afford a home then. Education costs were on par with now when you take in disposable income. Sorry.
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I think I was 27 when I bought my first home, a bungalow and a up and down duplex on the same lot. Sure it was a dump but the interest rate was 9 and a half percent. It seems around that time I was thinking to myself if I could just make two hundred and fifty bucks a week forever things would be sweet.
Minor in secondary Ed which, had I decided to do that, probably would have kept me employed as a teacher. (fortunately I chose a different career path one of the few I could find that was even easier haha) Don't know what a state college costs to get a degree in teaching.
As to Vapors statement I agree. Even if I am opposed to most forms of free s*** I would probably accept it if they threw some my way, but I'd be a little bit embarrassed.
WSS
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Boomers got homes cheap? In the 70's and 80's a interest on a home loan was in the teens. You had to make a lot of money to afford a home then. Education costs were on par with now when you take in disposable income. Sorry.
Boomers got homes cheap? In the 70's and 80's a interest on a home loan was in the teens. You had to make a lot of money to afford a home then. Education costs were on par with now when you take in disposable income. Sorry.
Do you have any data to back up that assertion? Cuz this data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics says otherwise.
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Look up the housing interest rates.
1970s
Thanks to Freddie Mac, there’s solid data available for 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rates beginning in 1971.
Rates in 1971 were in the mid-7% range, and they moved up steadily until they were at 9.19% in 1974. They briefly dipped down into the mid- to high-8% range before climbing to 11.20% in 1979. This was during a period of high inflation that hit its peak early in the next decade.
1980s
In both the 1970s and 1980s, the United States was pushed into a recession caused by an oil embargo against the country. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) instituted the embargo. One of the effects of this was hyperinflation, which meant that the price of goods and services rose extremely fast.
To counteract hyperinflation, the Federal Reserve raised short-term interest rates. This made money in savings accounts worth more. On the other hand, all interest rates rose, so the cost of borrowing money increased, too.
Interest rates reached their highest point in modern history in 1981 when the annual average was 16.63%, according to the Freddie Mac data. Fixed rates declined from there, but they finished the decade around 10%. The 1980s were an expensive time to borrow money.
1990s
In the 1990s, inflation started to calm down a little bit. The average mortgage rate in 1990 was 10.13%, but it slowly fell, finally dipping below 7% to come in at 6.94% in 1998.
According to a paper published by the Economic Policy Institute, one big reason for the economic growth and declining inflation seen later in the decade was the arrival of the internet in the mainstream consciousness. The increased investment in research and development of new technologies spurred a ton of economic growth.
2000s
Mortgage rates steadily declined from 8.05% in 2000 to the high-5% range in 2003. However, it wasn’t all milk and honey in this decade.
The housing crash happened in part because property values declined steeply until they hit their lowest point in 2008. This left many homeowners owing more on their homes than the property was worth. To provide some relief and to stimulate the economy, the Federal Reserve cut interest rates to make borrowing money cheaper.
Short-term rates, or the rates at which financial institutions borrow money, ended up being slashed to the point where they were at or near 0. This made it extremely cheap for banks to borrow funds so they could keep mortgage rates low.
As a result of this change, mortgage rates fell almost a full percentage point, averaging 5.04% in 2009.
2010s
Riding the wave of low bank borrowing costs, mortgage rates entered the new decade around 4.69%. They continued to fall steadily and were in the mid-3% range by 2012. In 2013, rates went up to 3.98%. A big reason for this was that the bond market panicked a little bit when the Federal Reserve said it would stop buying as many bonds.
When there are fewer buyers available, the yields on mortgage bonds have to go up to attract purchasers. This also causes mortgage rates to rise. Rates went up to 4.17% in 2014. In 2015, mortgage rates fell back to 3.85% as the market calmed down.
Although they were a little higher to end the year, rates in 2016 averaged 3.65%. With global turmoil, investors flocked to the safety of the U.S. bond market to guarantee the steadiness of their investments.
Rates began to rise after the 2016 presidential election. They reached their peak at the end of 2018/start of 2019. Rates on a 30-year fixed rate mortgage (FRM) ran between 3.95% on the low end and 5.34% on the high.
Take the first step toward the right mortgage.
2020-2021
Rates declined throughout 2019. When January 2020 came around, the average rate for a 30-year fixed was about 3.7%.
Then COVID-19 hit the United States. In response, the Federal Reserve dropped the federal funds rate to between 0 – 0.25%. This caused other short-term and long-term rates to drop.
This move was made to encourage borrowing on home loans, as well as other loans. It also led to a large increase in refinance and mortgage applications. By December, Freddie Mac reported an average mortgage rate for a 30-year FRM sitting at 2.68%.
Mortgage rates then hovered within the same range for the first half of 2021. The June rate increased slightly to 2.98%. Since then, rates have started to edge upward. As of October 21, Freddie Mac reported an average mortgage rate for 30-year FRM of 3.09%. Mortgage rate forecasts predict a continued increase by year’s end, which some attribute to inflation driven by temporary supply-chain issues. That could make 2021 – 2022 a good time to consider refinancing.
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I did not know interest rates ran that high for housing way back when. I'd like to see if the end cost of a home is comparable after being adjusted for inflation. For the current rates, they're back up to 5%. I locked in at 3.2 before it got crazy, but the house would have sold for 75% what I paid if I had the opportunity to buy it pre-pandemic.
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I did not know interest rates ran that high for housing way back when. I'd like to see if the end cost of a home is comparable after being adjusted for inflation. For the current rates, they're back up to 5%. I locked in at 3.2 before it got crazy, but the house would have sold for 75% what I paid if I had the opportunity to buy it pre-pandemic.
I did not know interest rates ran that high for housing way back when. I'd like to see if the end cost of a home is comparable after being adjusted for inflation. For the current rates, they're back up to 5%. I locked in at 3.2 before it got crazy, but the house would have sold for 75% what I paid if I had the opportunity to buy it pre-pandemic.
"Historical Mortgage Rates: Averages and Trends from the 1970s to 2019 - ValuePenguin" https://www.valuepenguin.com/mortgages/historical-mortgage-rates
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I bought my 1st house in 1990 when I was just 23 years old. I paid $114,990 for it and my one and only approved loan option had a $101,000 lending limit to a 1st time home buyer and my interest rate was 12%. I had to come in with over $18K of cash to close and my payments were just over $1,200 per month - of '90s money.
Boy was my house cheap..... I was so very privileged.
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