Browns fans are a confusing bunch.

[BernieSuperBowl2]

Most Browns fans get it, but about a third or so refuse to accept reality. They think Baker Mayfield was the second coming of Tom Brady or Joe Montana. In 2020, we made the playoffs and won a playoff game, which many incorrectly attribute to Baker. In 2020, look who Baker had at positions on offense:

RB Chubb (Pro Bowler), RB Hunt (Pro Bowler), WR Odell (Pro Bowler), WR Landry (Pro Bowler), LT Wills (Pro Bowler), LG Bitonio (Pro Bowler), C Tretter (Pro Bowler), RT Conklin (Pro Bowler), RG Teller (Pro Bowler), TE Hooper (Pro Bowler). 

Baker had a player who has been a Pro Bowler at some point in their career at literally every position in 2020. We had no major injuries in 2020 besides Odell who Baker had zero chemistry with because he can't throw a deep ball or figure out how to use a top WR. I'm not saying Baker didn't play well, he did in 2020....but it was due to the monster lineup we had, not because of Baker. We beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs due to a fluke game where our defense scored a defensive TD on the first play of the game and then got us five turnovers throughout the game - we had two rushing TD's and two short passes that Landry and Chubb took to the house on their own effort. It wasn't Baker putting the team on his shoulders and dragging us to a victory. It was the defensive TD & turnovers and Hunt/Chubb/Landry.

Watson is a clear upgrade over Baker. There are Browns fans with low football IQ's who think that because Baker got us to the playoffs in 2020, he should keep his starting job for the next 15 years and not be held accountable for his poor play, lack of mental/emotional maturity, and complete inability to finish games or have a come back in crunch time (Baker's stats are among the all-time worst in 4th quarter crunch time). You can't win a Super Bowl in this league without a top QB, and Baker simply isn't a top QB and Watson is a top QB whether you like him or not. 

[nickers]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

Most Browns fans get it, but about a third or so refuse to accept reality. They think Baker Mayfield was the second coming of Tom Brady or Joe Montana. In 2020, we made the playoffs and won a playoff game, which many incorrectly attribute to Baker. In 2020, look who Baker had at positions on offense:

RB Chubb (Pro Bowler), RB Hunt (Pro Bowler), WR Odell (Pro Bowler), WR Landry (Pro Bowler), LT Wills (Pro Bowler), LG Bitonio (Pro Bowler), C Tretter (Pro Bowler), RT Conklin (Pro Bowler), RG Teller (Pro Bowler), TE Hooper (Pro Bowler). 

Baker had a player who has been a Pro Bowler at some point in their career at literally every position in 2020. We had no major injuries in 2020 besides Odell who Baker had zero chemistry with because he can't throw a deep ball or figure out how to use a top WR. I'm not saying Baker didn't play well, he did in 2020....but it was due to the monster lineup we had, not because of Baker. We beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs due to a fluke game where our defense scored a defensive TD on the first play of the game and then got us five turnovers throughout the game - we had two rushing TD's and two short passes that Landry and Chubb took to the house on their own effort. It wasn't Baker putting the team on his shoulders and dragging us to a victory. It was the defensive TD & turnovers and Hunt/Chubb/Landry.

Watson is a clear upgrade over Baker. There are Browns fans with low football IQ's who think that because Baker got us to the playoffs in 2020, he should keep his starting job for the next 15 years and not be held accountable for his poor play, lack of mental/emotional maturity, and complete inability to finish games or have a come back in crunch time (Baker's stats are among the all-time worst in 4th quarter crunch time). You can't win a Super Bowl in this league without a top QB, and Baker simply isn't a top QB and Watson is a top QB whether you like him or not. 

It all remains to be seen.. Neither has won a goddamn sausage... Getting a new lawn doesn't guarantee it will get or stay green on the other side. Baker never lacked for arm strength. Kind of hard for anyone to be be a deep passer when injured. He did launch a 70 yard bomb a couple of seasons back. That doesn't excuse his terrible attitude. Nor does it excuse the Clowns for the way they miss-handled him... Both of them are bitches but I was more than ok with rolling with Mayfield one more season.. If he didnt pan out... Okay.. Move on... Whats done is done... This fucker has a lot to prove to me before I can buy in... But history has shown Watson is a dumb fuck who found himself in questionable circumstances... That's not what I need my QB focusing on.. I need his head into the playbook.. not the fucking court room...

[Gorka]

@neo said:

Fighting for a playoff spot in one of the toughest if not THE toughest division in all of football that includes a team with Joe Burrow who's team went to the Super Bowl last year, and by the way, we beat them twice last year. 

We have a competent GM, a roster full of talent, and an owner willing to eat a 230 million dollar contract ( and by the way, I really appreciate that as a fan). Somehow, losing record doesn't tell the whole story.

The whole story means nothing if you don't win. 

If you're happy with a good story with a lousy ending more power too you, just don't expect others to fall in line.

Yeah we beat Cincy, but we also were swept by a pathetic Steeler team...with Myles and others arriving at the game at First Energy wearing Halloween costumes. A real good look for a team serious about beating the fucking Steelers.

[calfoxwc]

@brownsnmopar said:

...What happened to innocence UNTIL proven guilty??? These Alligations against Watson are just that alligations! These alligations  ONLY came up after DeShawn asked to be traded.  By a lawyer(who is  SLEAZY,and MONEY driven) whom is a friend and neighbor of the corrupt(BITTER)

Texans owner!! 

I did say apparently. we don't know. but about half of Browns fans do NOT need the controversy. There is enough there that IS true - to figure this trade is trash. it would have been different if they had signed him for the money - except there are other qb's in the draft the next two years we could have drafted. I would have been fine to do an expensive trade up.

Like I said - I'm not the only one. And the little click that wants to run anyone out of town that doesn't agree with them can go shove it.

[Canton Dawg]

Baker was a crybaby, and Watson is a diva.

My only issue is the Browns overpaid immensely for a guy that has a resume not much better than Mayfield.

[mjp28]

@canton-dawg said:

Baker was a crybaby, and Watson is a diva.

My only issue is the Browns overpaid immensely for a guy that has a resume not much better than Mayfield.

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

[calfoxwc]

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

[nickers]

@calfoxwc said:

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

And they also had a top 5 defense..

[hoorta]

@calfoxwc said:

8 hrs ago, Whooreta said:

Cal's morality is damn selective, IMHO...  I'll leave it at this... His hero has more allegations than Deshaun... So he can shove his railings about trading for a scumbag QB, when OTOH, he worships a guy who has plenty of accusations of sexual impropriety.  29>22.  He can stop his bleating now, we got his POV loud and clear. 

*****************************

strange, you are so hostile and dishonest at night. Then you seem to post more sober the next day. While you were "out", maybe, I clearly said more than once - I would have been fine if they traded a few first rounders to move up in this draft to draft a new qb, and traded baker. Making up stupid dishonest narratives to have some warped reason to bitch is your strong point. You still post like you have a hangover. STFU at night - maybe?

It isn't that Baker is anyone's hero. If the browns decided to move on from Baker, fine. but

No Cal, my point is you worship your "Greatest President, Ever, Ever"... And overlook the myriad sexual allegations leveled against you know who... Including Rape... "Grab 'em by the pussy" ring any bells?  And Watson is a slimeball? Either they're both slimeballs, or neither of them are. Take your truckload of hypocrisy back over to the Political Board fantasy land. No whataboutism & spin permitted here either. 

@calfoxwc said:

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

Dear Broken Record Cal...  Your WR BS has been debunked at least a dozen times already, but you just keep on spewing the same baloney. 

Browns... OBJ- PRO BOWL,  Landry- PRO BOWL, Hooper PRO BOWL, Chubb and Bitonio PRO BOWL...  It was pointed out.... Baker had PRO BOWL talent surrounding him at virtually every offensive position, and the only reason they managed to beat the Steelers in the playoff game is they got gifted a touchdown 10 seconds into the game... SIX turnovers, and the Browns hung on to win.  I'm not going to bother looking up how many teams have won a playoff game when they've turned the ball over that many times.  

[BernieSuperBowl2]

@mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

[Canton Dawg]

@mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

[hoorta]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

Well I can't deny there's a good percentage of Browns fans on a morality bender... To a certain extent I am too... But what's done is done. I'm not cancelling my season tickets over it.

[hoorta]

@canton-dawg said:

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

[Canton Dawg]

@hoorta said:

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

According to PFF, the Texans Oline was ranked 23rd in 2019 and 20th in 2020.

I would attribute the numbers of sacks on DW’s efforts to extend a play.

He needs to learn to throw the ball away more often.

On your comments about W-L record…no shit.

What do you think his learning curve is going to be playing in CLE?

With that salary, I would say he will need to start winning from day one.

[tiamat63]

The "load" of the Texans' offense is placed on Watson.  His command at the line, checks, projection adjustments, getting into the right plays and then ultimately post snap decision making, looks markedly better than Baker. A Baker who enjoyed a superior running game and Oline personnel.  Especially when we get real apples to apples and compare straight drops, pass pro and run:pass ratio from Watson to Baker.  The results, including depth of target, completion percentage, turnovers, turnover worthy throws, AYPC, zone anticipation and ball placement-  all favor Deshaun.  A few of those by quite a bit. 

No, pro bowls aren't everything.   It's only when we take the time to dig further do the results show such contrast.  But that requires patience, the I.Q and dedicating the time to it.  Three things most people have very little of in the time of 140 characters and exaggerated headlines.

[Neo]

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

[Canton Dawg]

@neo said:

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

Pretty much my sentiments.

Making Watson the highest paid QB was an all in approach by the FO.

I certainly hope they’re right, but if Berry is wrong he just set us back a few years and needs to be shitcanned.

[mjp28]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

All good points 

Digging deeper completions 1185 to 1186 but one with more attempts.   Watson two 11 win seasons to one, two 4,000+ passing yard seasons to none (play calling, WRs? ) .  And with 14,000+ passing yards each  only 224 apart.  More fun with numbers. 

Bottom line i liked Mayfield in his 1½  exciting seasons  ‐but-  two thuds (injuries? ).  And we will only know if  "The Watson Deal"  is a good or bad deal IF :

1. The legal mess somehow can be resolved.   2. Watson can prove that he is a franchise quarterback   -and-   worth that mega contract. 

The character or morals thing may take years if ever to resolve itself.   It will be talked about " to death " this coming preseason,  season and beyond.  What a shame. 

GO BROWNS,  we real fans still love ya',   Time to draft and get ready for some football  !      

[Canton Dawg]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

And he also did that in the AFC South.

The AFC North is a whole different animal.

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

 Well, I know I never should have invoked your name, and I already regret replying but you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and give it a shot and try to untangle your twisted mind.

Ok, here we go...

Putin would be the Browns in this situation.

Winning the war then is the SuperBowl.

And thus, obviously, war crimes and genocide would be akin to handjobs and blowjobs.

Hmmm ... Makes perfect sense when you break it down.

I mean, let's take it a step further ... Those massage girls who solicited Watson on Instagram ... They are innocent Ukranian families being bombed, terrorized and tortured.

Z

Z, I'm not going to get into a political debate with someone here... I have Cal on ignore, for obvious reasons. A general waste of my time trying to counter the master of spin and whataboutism, I try my best to avoid responding. However, if I scan posts before I log in, I can see everything that's been posted. Just sayin'- apparently what's moral in politics or sports depends on how far you have your head up the ass of a certain politician.    

So in a word to Cal.... If you're not going to follow the Browns, I'd strongly suggest you stop posting your hurt feelings about Berry & Company's lack of morality bringing in Deshaun already. ALL  of us know your POV, so drop it.