Browns fans are a confusing bunch.

[hoorta]

@calfoxwc said:

8 hrs ago, Whooreta said:

Cal's morality is damn selective, IMHO...  I'll leave it at this... His hero has more allegations than Deshaun... So he can shove his railings about trading for a scumbag QB, when OTOH, he worships a guy who has plenty of accusations of sexual impropriety.  29>22.  He can stop his bleating now, we got his POV loud and clear. 

*****************************

strange, you are so hostile and dishonest at night. Then you seem to post more sober the next day. While you were "out", maybe, I clearly said more than once - I would have been fine if they traded a few first rounders to move up in this draft to draft a new qb, and traded baker. Making up stupid dishonest narratives to have some warped reason to bitch is your strong point. You still post like you have a hangover. STFU at night - maybe?

It isn't that Baker is anyone's hero. If the browns decided to move on from Baker, fine. but

No Cal, my point is you worship your "Greatest President, Ever, Ever"... And overlook the myriad sexual allegations leveled against you know who... Including Rape... "Grab 'em by the pussy" ring any bells?  And Watson is a slimeball? Either they're both slimeballs, or neither of them are. Take your truckload of hypocrisy back over to the Political Board fantasy land. No whataboutism & spin permitted here either. 

@calfoxwc said:

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

Dear Broken Record Cal...  Your WR BS has been debunked at least a dozen times already, but you just keep on spewing the same baloney. 

Browns... OBJ- PRO BOWL,  Landry- PRO BOWL, Hooper PRO BOWL, Chubb and Bitonio PRO BOWL...  It was pointed out.... Baker had PRO BOWL talent surrounding him at virtually every offensive position, and the only reason they managed to beat the Steelers in the playoff game is they got gifted a touchdown 10 seconds into the game... SIX turnovers, and the Browns hung on to win.  I'm not going to bother looking up how many teams have won a playoff game when they've turned the ball over that many times.  

[BernieSuperBowl2]

@mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

[Canton Dawg]

@mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

[hoorta]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

Well I can't deny there's a good percentage of Browns fans on a morality bender... To a certain extent I am too... But what's done is done. I'm not cancelling my season tickets over it.

[hoorta]

@canton-dawg said:

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

[Canton Dawg]

@hoorta said:

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

According to PFF, the Texans Oline was ranked 23rd in 2019 and 20th in 2020.

I would attribute the numbers of sacks on DW’s efforts to extend a play.

He needs to learn to throw the ball away more often.

On your comments about W-L record…no shit.

What do you think his learning curve is going to be playing in CLE?

With that salary, I would say he will need to start winning from day one.

[tiamat63]

The "load" of the Texans' offense is placed on Watson.  His command at the line, checks, projection adjustments, getting into the right plays and then ultimately post snap decision making, looks markedly better than Baker. A Baker who enjoyed a superior running game and Oline personnel.  Especially when we get real apples to apples and compare straight drops, pass pro and run:pass ratio from Watson to Baker.  The results, including depth of target, completion percentage, turnovers, turnover worthy throws, AYPC, zone anticipation and ball placement-  all favor Deshaun.  A few of those by quite a bit. 

No, pro bowls aren't everything.   It's only when we take the time to dig further do the results show such contrast.  But that requires patience, the I.Q and dedicating the time to it.  Three things most people have very little of in the time of 140 characters and exaggerated headlines.

[Neo]

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

[Canton Dawg]

@neo said:

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

Pretty much my sentiments.

Making Watson the highest paid QB was an all in approach by the FO.

I certainly hope they’re right, but if Berry is wrong he just set us back a few years and needs to be shitcanned.

[mjp28]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

All good points 

Digging deeper completions 1185 to 1186 but one with more attempts.   Watson two 11 win seasons to one, two 4,000+ passing yard seasons to none (play calling, WRs? ) .  And with 14,000+ passing yards each  only 224 apart.  More fun with numbers. 

Bottom line i liked Mayfield in his 1½  exciting seasons  ‐but-  two thuds (injuries? ).  And we will only know if  "The Watson Deal"  is a good or bad deal IF :

1. The legal mess somehow can be resolved.   2. Watson can prove that he is a franchise quarterback   -and-   worth that mega contract. 

The character or morals thing may take years if ever to resolve itself.   It will be talked about " to death " this coming preseason,  season and beyond.  What a shame. 

GO BROWNS,  we real fans still love ya',   Time to draft and get ready for some football  !      

[Canton Dawg]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

And he also did that in the AFC South.

The AFC North is a whole different animal.

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

 Well, I know I never should have invoked your name, and I already regret replying but you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and give it a shot and try to untangle your twisted mind.

Ok, here we go...

Putin would be the Browns in this situation.

Winning the war then is the SuperBowl.

And thus, obviously, war crimes and genocide would be akin to handjobs and blowjobs.

Hmmm ... Makes perfect sense when you break it down.

I mean, let's take it a step further ... Those massage girls who solicited Watson on Instagram ... They are innocent Ukranian families being bombed, terrorized and tortured.

Z

Z, I'm not going to get into a political debate with someone here... I have Cal on ignore, for obvious reasons. A general waste of my time trying to counter the master of spin and whataboutism, I try my best to avoid responding. However, if I scan posts before I log in, I can see everything that's been posted. Just sayin'- apparently what's moral in politics or sports depends on how far you have your head up the ass of a certain politician.    

So in a word to Cal.... If you're not going to follow the Browns, I'd strongly suggest you stop posting your hurt feelings about Berry & Company's lack of morality bringing in Deshaun already. ALL  of us know your POV, so drop it. 

[syd]

@calfoxwc said:

this is bs. Everybody has their own opinion - the browns didn't "try to bring a franchise qb here". Watson can play, he isn't a star qb, he is a cancer, and apparently a sleazy in trouble with the law asswhole. The browns want to bring a winner to clevelad? then WHY give up THREE FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS for this garbage reputation? Why alienate about half of the fans who can't and won't support this jerk?

I've been to Browns games before I was born. As a kid, I went with my Parents to see the browns play pittsburg in an exhibition game vs the squealers. I"ve watched Browns seasons through so many coaches. Decades and decades.

Columbus Crew soccer fans protest Browns trade for Deshaun ...

https://www.foxnews.com › sports › columbus-crew-soccer-fans-protest-browns-trade-deshaun-watson

The decision by Cleveland Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam to trade for former Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has led to a backlash among fans of another team they own, the Columbus Crew.

I watched Blanton Collier teach kids how to pass a football in a video back in the day as a kid. You judging fans who don't agree with you is stupid.

The haslams doing this - was NOT for the fans or the team, not for winning. It was for going woke with the NFL. Seriously, they draft this "scumbucket" ? then they sign two other qb's who ....are all black.

If the browns had traded two first round draft picks to draft say, PIckett? and traded Baker? I'd be fine with that.

This was a slutty move by the Browns.

honestly i believe your best bet would be to  go root for buffalo

[Orion]

People are harping on us giving up so many picks for little gain in QB ability (by certain stats).  But how much better were Matthew Stafford's stats over Goff's on the day before the trade?  

The Rams felt that Goff wasn't good enough to win the Super Bowl with.  So they traded for Stafford and proved that they were right.  (and THEY were the team that traded way up in the draft to DRAFT Goff)

We are / were in the same boat.  And Watson's stats, on a worse team, are much better than Baker's.  

Tom Brady recently said in an interview, "You can't wait for the Super Bowl to come to you.  You have to make it happen".

[hoorta]

@syd said:

honestly i believe your best bet would be to  go root for Buffalo

Yup, they have that fine upstanding QB Josh Allen that Cal has always liked. 

Sure, we should just draft another QB, wait for a couple of years for him to turn into the next Tom Brady when our window will have closed by the time he's ready. Our drafting QBs has been so stellar, let's roll the dice on another one. Quinn, Johnny Football, Weeden, Kizer, Frye, and what is it? 22 other flops? 

Berry's opinion is the Browns time is now, and he saw the same stuff Tia has been posting for months regarding Baker.  If teams out there thought Mayfield was a sure fire slam dunk starting QB in the NFL, they would have no hesitation picking up his $18 million for a mid round pick, and a performance escalator in the 2023 draft.  

[Dutch Oven]

@orion said:

People are harping on us giving up so many picks for little gain in QB ability (by certain stats).  But how much better were Matthew Stafford's stats over Goff's on the day before the trade?  

The Rams felt that Goff wasn't good enough to win the Super Bowl with.  So they traded for Stafford and proved that they were right.  (and THEY were the team that traded way up in the draft to DRAFT Goff)

We are / were in the same boat.  And Watson's stats, on a worse team, are much better than Baker's.  

Tom Brady recently said in an interview, "You can wait for the Super Bowl to come to you.  You have to make it happen".

It really shouldn't be debatable on the field that Watson is superior to Baker Mayfield. It just isn't.

But I can't discount a lot of people on here's apprehension about adding Watson. The off the field stuff isn't over yet, and this move could still blow up in the Browns face. I totally can understand people not getting on board with this move. 

[syd]

@hoorta said:

Yup, they have that fine upstanding QB Josh Allen that Cal has always liked. 

Sure, we should just draft another QB, wait for a couple of years for him to turn into the next Tom Brady when our window will have closed by the time he's ready. Our drafting QBs has been so stellar, let's roll the dice on another one. Quinn, Johnny Football, Weeden, Kizer, Frye, and what is it? 22 other flops? 

Berry's opinion is the Browns time is now, and he saw the same stuff Tia has been posting for months regarding Baker.  If teams out there thought Mayfield was a sure fire slam dunk starting QB in the NFL, they would have no hesitation picking up his $18 million for a mid round pick, and a performance escalator in the 2023 draft.  

the only thing i kinda disagree with is when some day we do draft a QB are F.O will make the right pick

[syd]

@dutch-oven said:

It really shouldn't be debatable on the field that Watson is superior to Baker Mayfield. It just isn't.

But I can't discount a lot of people on here's apprehension about adding Watson. The off the field stuff isn't over yet, and this move could still blow up in the Browns face. I totally can understand people not getting on board with this move. 

I dont I think they are fucked in the head certifiable if you will or just bat shit crazy

[mjp28]

Somehow I don't think Neo was quite looking for this part of his subject line.  

Browns fans are a confusing bunch.      

[Gorka]

@dutch-oven said:

Meet me and you'll find out.

And why am I not surprised. 

Come on man..come over to Pol board. Keep your pussy hat on. No one can see you.