Baker to Carolina

[Dutch Oven]

Baker Mayfield is a second tier starting quarterback. 

Which puts him squarely at "average" for starting quarterbacks. Comparing his stats to quarterbacks from eras where throwing the ball 30 times in one game was newsworthy is silly. 

Might as well compare today's hitters in MLB to hitters from 1911, when one or two pitchers might have topped 90mph with their fastballs. 

[D Bone]

Uh oh, mjp telling the complete story with omitted facts.  

Dammit I hate when that happens. 

[syd]

baker is gone get over it

LONG LIVE WATSON

[mjp28]

@d-bone said:

Uh oh, mjp telling the complete story with omitted facts.  

Dammit I hate when that happens. 

Going into year 5 with the first 3 years of data and trying to draw conclusions.   Oh well it's like grading on the curve......well sort of.

~AND~  it looks like the Baker Mayfield era is over in Cleveland,  it just doesn't feel like it yet.  Probably won't until September 11th against Carolina and probably Baker Mayfield.....how spooky is that.   Maybe a tie game ?    

[PoeticG]

Baker would have broken multiple records for an age old snakebitten franchise, it would have been more than enough to warrant his draft status in the annuls of the history books. He may have well have won us a Superbowl Championship. Sometimes it's not all about winning but in HOW you win. I would have gladly watched another 11-6 season under Baker, just for the joy of it. It was enough for me knowing that we had a chance. You can't win them all and if you think you can, you are wrong.

[hoorta]

@mjp28 said:

Quick at look 2021 - low in yards, low in TDs, low comp %...... Not good trend numbers. Especially high in injuries and of course age.

Just the numbers. 

Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career				60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41

Yup, the OP did some serious cherry picking of stats to (lamely) try and prove a point.  Let's start with Baker's 2020 best season... 95.9 qbr... In 2021, TEN starting NFL QBs posted ratings better than that...   I'll even use his 2019 career best in yards (3827)...  2021 eleven QBs were better, and two more- Garoppolo and Mac Jones were within 20 yards of that number. 

@dutch-oven said:

Baker Mayfield is a second tier starting quarterback. 

Which puts him squarely at "average" for starting quarterbacks. Comparing his stats to quarterbacks from eras where throwing the ball 30 times in one game was newsworthy is silly. 

Might as well compare today's hitters in MLB to hitters from 1911, when one or two pitchers might have topped 90mph with their fastballs. 

See above... If you're not in the top 10, that makes you second tier.  Agreed, picking numbers from the era of leather helmet football is pretty meaningless.  Most would say the "modern" era of football started with the Super Bowl. Or, as Steeler fans like to say 1970.   Salaries and overall conditioning now are nothing like they were 50-60 years ago. A lot of the hangers on back then had to take summer off season jobs to make ends meet. (For those young 'uns who don't know- the retired #46 belonged to Don Fleming, who got himself electrocuted working on a summer job for CEI.)  I well remember that Jim Brown was the first NFL player to top $100,000 in salary. That's not even $1 million in 2022 dollars.  

[hoorta]

@poeticg said:

Baker would have broken multiple records for an age old snakebitten franchise, it would have been more than enough to warrant his draft status in the annuls of the history books. He may have well have won us a Superbowl Championship. Sometimes it's not all about winning but in HOW you win. I would have gladly watched another 11-6 season under Baker, just for the joy of it. It was enough for me knowing that we had a chance. You can't win them all and if you think you can, you are wrong.

The final chapters of the Book of Baker are yet to be written Po & I don't claim to have a crystal ball... This year will certainly give us the direction his career is heading... Just don't be crying over the departed USS Baker, because it's sailed... And I suggest you not beat yourself up over it.  Can he turn it around and have a Drew Brees career, or become a long term backup like Josh McCown or Colt McCoy? Stay tuned.  

BTW.. I certainly wished (at the time) that Phil Dawson would have stuck around for another year or two to pass Lou Groza's Browns points record. But he didn't.

Face it- Mayfield got shipped out of town for a conditional (at best) 4th round draft choice. Damaged goods. AND we had to pay Carolina $10 million to make him go away.  If the rest of the NFL viewed Baker as a "for real" franchise QB, he would have commanded what the Seahawks got for Russell Wilson. UM...  

"What was the trade for Russell Wilson? The 33-year-old Wilson was traded from the Seahawks to the Broncos in exchange for a huge haul, including two first-round draft picks, two second-rounders, a fifth-rounder, quarterback Drew Lock, defensive tackle Shelby Harris and tight end Noah Fant."

[mjp28]

Maybe the absolute final Baker Mayfield numbers  might be written in the 2022 NFL Week 1 - September 11, 2022 1 pm on CBS  the visiting Cleveland BROWNS at the home team Carolina Panthers. 

Expected starting quarterbacks  TBD vs Baker Mayfield  in the sure to be the most hyped game in the NFL  Week 1.   

Getting excited yet ?  Maybe give it a month or so.       

.......edit add,  I personally think BRM might even be pumped up in the upcoming preseason,  eh ?   Might be worth watching what happens next. 

...... edit two, I wonder if the camps and preseason will show how much BRM has in the ol' tank and heart.  Is he going to be up to his 2018 rookie performance thrown into action and going 6-7.  Or maybe his 2020 and 11-5 playoff record year.  Or the greatly disappointing 2019 or 2021 years.   Which BRM shows up in 2022 its anyone's guess right now. 

Doesn't sound like a franchise quarterback on a good team does it ?   

[mjp28]

OK it's 2:36 Tuesday am and my left hip is thumping.....Rx time......ahhhhh.      Just kidding Browns fans, I'm trying to read to fall asleep.  It's not working.....yet.

And just one more shot at the  "beating a dead horse"  thing.  The last three categories on is BRM an (ok-good-franchise) quarterback.  (pick only one)

I never thought that I'd see these three three BROWNS quarterbacks in one line-up.....Otto, Milt, Baker.......from when I was 4, 10, 70 all together.  Amazing. 

Brings back memories of Otto after he retired,  Milt when I was playing backyard and 5th/6th grade tackle football in full uniforms and Baker ahhh what the hell was I doing when I was 70?  Oh yeah new meds, lol.      

Seriously though like I've always said what's better than having fun with numbers.   Especially when they add up right, eventually.  

Oh my answer is BRM is a good quarterback and I can prove it god dammit......and  "stay off my yard dammit ......and I know your parents! ! 

Hmmmm, 3:11 am, still awake.  Maybe I'll try Facebook,  yeah that might w-o-.....   ?

[ballpeen]

@calfoxwc said:

well, football is a game of matchups. Let's say, sometimes the weak wr group could get open vs one team's secondary, sometimes they couldn't get open much at all. Maybe....some teams don't have great pass rushers and a terrific secondary, with fast lb's who can also cover short range....

    maybe....sometimes Stephanski's stupid playcalling screwed up the browns' chances, sometimes didn't.

I don't know.

I guess when a play doesn't work it might be called a stupid play. Then again, maybe it just didn't work.  We are playing against other players who are trying to stop us from moving the ball.  

No matter how bad we might think they are, they are going to win some of those battles.

[ballpeen]

@nickers said:

And we gave him away for literally nothing... Typical dumb Browns moves..

Who offered more that we got? Were their any other teams interested?  My feeling is if Baker was all that good, we would have had multiple teams seeking his services no matter the thought that we didn't have leverage.  If Baker was good enough, we would have had leverage because multiple interested teams would have created said leverage.

A note on Cals numbers posted.  The game is different than when Otto played.  Posting up numbers that show Baker just behind Otto doesn't make Baker set to be better than Otto Graham.

And just to be clear.  I like Baker and wanted to draft him. I would have been good with keeping him, but he wasn't a great QB.  He was a middle of the pack QB.  We could win with him, but probably not because of him.

[Dutch Oven]

@ballpeen said:

Who offered more that we got? Were their any other teams interested?  My feeling is if Baker was all that good, we would have had multiple teams seeking his services no matter the thought that we didn't have leverage.  If Baker was good enough, we would have had leverage because multiple interested teams would have created said leverage.

I found it telling that the none of the other teams involved in the Watson sweepstakes seemed to have any interest in Baker. If he is as good as Watson, or barely behind him, you would have thought that the losers in the Watson sweepstakes would have jumped at the relative pittance wanted by the Browns for Baker. Say, a third rounder and picking up $18 mill for a starting QB? 

Crickets. 

[Canton Dawg]

Funny how everyone is yapping about what the Browns had to fork out to get rid of Mayfield.

Yet nobody is talking about the shit for brains that extended his contract THEN went shopping for his replacement.

If AB worked for any competent company, his ass would’ve been fired for pissing away millions of dollars.

But the Browns doesn’t qualify as a competent organization.

[SdBacker80]

@canton-dawg said:

Funny how everyone is yapping about what the Browns had to fork out to get rid of Mayfield.

Yet nobody is talking about the shit for brains that extended his contract THEN went shopping for his replacement.

If AB worked for any competent company, his ass would’ve been fired for pissing away millions of dollars.

But the Browns doesn’t qualify as a competent organization.

Thus far he’s been paid like an average .500 QB.   

and Everyone needs to relax…we had Jay Cutler.  Not Drew Brees but not Colt McCoy either.

turn the page…

[SdBacker80]

Are we blaming Baker for anything that happened in 2019 when he left clean pockets more than any other QB in The NFL?

[Bob806]

I don't care about his numbers. 

Baker, Jarvis Landry, Garrett, & Chubb all helped the Browns out of the abyss- for that, I will always be grateful. 

Like others said, let's move on. The Browns could have a vey good season this year, & I look forward to that.

[Canton Dawg]

@sdbacker80 said:

Thus far he’s been paid like an average .500 QB.   

and Everyone needs to relax…we had Jay Cutler.  Not Drew Brees but not Colt McCoy either.

turn the page…

DW has a .519 career win/loss record.

So don’t you find it strange he’s making $230 million?

[Riffer X]

@canton-dawg said:

Funny how everyone is yapping about what the Browns had to fork out to get rid of Mayfield.

Yet nobody is talking about the shit for brains that extended his contract THEN went shopping for his replacement.

If AB worked for any competent company, his ass would’ve been fired for pissing away millions of dollars.

But the Browns doesn’t qualify as a competent organization.

@canton-dawg your post is common sensical in approach, but did you really think the Browns wouldn't pick up his option? Do you not agree that things are always fluid in the NFL and can change quickly? Not trying to give you any shit here either, but genuinely curious as to why you think it would be sensible to give Baker big money and extend him for years just because we picked up his option after he had a good season. 

He was not good last year. It was all over film and there were all kinds of other rumblings regarding his leadership or lack thereof, along with social media drama with him and his wife. I could go on and on, but the Browns were moving on regardless of the Watson scenario. Picking up an option is to further evaluate a player before risking a huge money investment, that's unless the player obviously sucks and Baker didn't at the time.

This board is very polarized by Baker and full of agendas on both sides of the coin. Hopefully, we hear something on Watson soon and move on. 

Personally, and I posted this on Flugel's thread before Cal started this one, Baker will go down in Browns history as a top 5 QB. I don't care what generation, those are the facts. Trying to wipe away his accomplishments is just as ridiculous as claiming the Browns should have went into this season with him as a lame duck after the drama of last season and piss poor performance.  

[SdBacker80]

@canton-dawg said:

DW has a .519 career win/loss record.

So don’t you find it strange he’s making $230 million?

No i don’t.

And let’s  bring in the Baker Built in excuses.  Texans had two years of playoff football with Watson at QB and Hopkins at WR.  They trade away Hopkins and suffer through HC change and go 4-12.

[Riffer X]

@ballpeen said:

Who offered more that we got? Were their any other teams interested?  My feeling is if Baker was all that good, we would have had multiple teams seeking his services no matter the thought that we didn't have leverage.  If Baker was good enough, we would have had leverage because multiple interested teams would have created said leverage.

A note on Cals numbers posted.  The game is different than when Otto played.  Posting up numbers that show Baker just behind Otto doesn't make Baker set to be better than Otto Graham.

And just to be clear.  I like Baker and wanted to draft him. I would have been good with keeping him, but he wasn't a great QB.  He was a middle of the pack QB.  We could win with him, but probably not because of him.

@ballpeen this was bad timing for Baker given all the variables (his mouth, whispers the Browns wanted an adult at QB, the bad blood separation, his injury, coming off a bad season, being a video gaming junkie rather than a film junkie etc).

Being on the last year of his contract and being injured on top of it (still hasn't passed the physical that I know of - but I could be wrong on that), he just isn't considered a valuable commodity given the teams who need a QB and their situations. The majority of them are most likely tanking to draft a guy next year, and this may be becoming a new thing where drafting rookies is much more cap effective than extending these guys to huge deals. Baker could be just good enough to win enough games for a team looking to draft high next year. Jimmy G is in a similar situation without the baggage and he is still sitting out there. 

There's also whispers that Baker has put on about 20 pounds similar to 2019 with Fast Fredward. I don't know how true those rumors are, but he does love his video games. 

I honestly don't even expect him to start against us, I don't think he will be ready even if he does end up winning the job eventually (assuming they keep Darnold). I know Carolina wanted to finally pull the trigger before camp to get him in there (this deal was on the table since the draft), but he still doesn't have a ton of time to get ready. This is a guy who doesn't have a rep as a film junkie to quickly pick up a new scheme and he also has to get healthy, get in shape and develop chemistry with his new teammates where guys like Robbie Anderson are already on record for making comments of not liking him before the trade.