Baker to Carolina
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Just 2 wrinkles I’ll throw your way about *Manning*
First, he played the majority of his games in the AFC South…probably the weakest division in the league.
Replaced Watson's name with, well... you can tell. A QB who played in an era of an even weaker AFCS.
I think it should help illustrate how silly your attempt at the 1st point was.
Second, Watson was the most sacked QB in 2019/2020.
Baker was 8th in 2019
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2019
and look at that.... 4th in 2021
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2021
Just behind the likes of Burrow, Tannehill and Wilson. Did you also want me to post individual and collective Oline grades for those seasons as well?
You may not realize it, but if your attempt of saying "DUURRR SACKS" is to somehow demean Deshaun, it also ends up as a doubled edged sword against Baker.
edit: Not to get into a Watson/Mayfield debate. That is just dumb at this point. Only wanted to point out your contradiction and poor example is all. Perfectly fine with any opinions, so long as those are backed with some better material to support it.
double edit: To disarm your (likely response) No, I'm not calling Watson Manning. My rebuttal was only to highlight how flimsy it was to use the AFCS as a 'reason'.
Replaced Watson's name with, well... you can tell. A QB who played in an era of an even weaker AFCS.
I think it should help illustrate how silly your attempt at the 1st point was.
So you want to compare a 2 time Super Bowl winning, 5 time NFL MVP, and Hall of Famer Peyton Manning to a guy that has won only a single playoff game? Great comparison!
Baker was 8th in 2019
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2019
and look at that.... 4th in 2021
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2021
Just behind the likes of Burrow, Tannehill and Wilson. Did you also want me to post individual and collective Oline grades for those seasons as well?
You may not realize it, but if your attempt of saying "DUURRR SACKS" is to somehow demean Deshaun, it also ends up as a doubled edged sword against Baker.
See below.Funny you Watson worshipper’s keep bringing up Mayfield, news flash…he’s gone.
edit: Not to get into a Watson/Mayfield debate. That is just dumb at this point. Only wanted to point out your contradiction and poor example is all. Perfectly fine with any opinions, so long as those are backed with some better material to support it.
double edit: To disarm your (likely response) No, I'm not calling Watson Manning. My rebuttal was only to highlight how flimsy it was to use the AFCS as a 'reason'.
Let’s see, the AFC South has been in existence for 20 years and have one SB championship to show for it. We’re going to see how good Lil Jizz likes playing in the AFC North.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Well, that's your opinion. I mean, why root for the team if you think they have no shot at a Super Bowl? To each their own.
When in the last 23 years have the browns had a shot to win a Super Bowl? You have been a fan thus far. When you get down to it, the browns have probably only had 5-6 legit shots at being a team that could have made the Super Bowl since the Super bowl became the game....what was that, 1967?
When in the last 23 years have the browns had a shot to win a Super Bowl? You have been a fan thus far. When you get down to it, the browns have probably only had 5-6 legit shots at being a team that could have made the Super Bowl since the Super bowl became the game....what was that, 1967?
Whatever Peen, this board has devolved so badly that real football talk takes a back seat to ridiculous semantic bullshit like this. It's pathetic.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
Are we blaming Baker for anything that happened in 2019 when he left clean pockets more than any other QB in The NFL?
I always found it interesting how little flak Baker got for showing up to his second season fat, out-of-shape and obviously unprepared mentally for the coming season.
That wasn't Freddie's fault.
Baker got for showing up to his second season fat, out-of-shape and obviously unprepared
What kind of a monster are you?
We don't hold people accountable for the results of their personal choices around here.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
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Baker got for showing up to his second season fat, out-of-shape and obviously unprepared
What kind of a monster are you?
We don't hold people accountable for the results of their personal choices around here.
What kind of a monster are you?
We don't hold people accountable for the results of their personal choices around here.
Hold accountable ? Oh yes the Browns dumped a $34 million basically guaranteed money in Mr Baker Mayfield's lap plus ?? millions more in commercial endorsements and. he went partying around the carribbean (with pictures) .
And he showed up for year 2 like some rich playboy NOT the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.......
......ahhh wait being in shape ? Accountability ? Personal choices ? Well he meant well I guess.
There's your franchise quarterback ready to go in year two. A 6-10 year on a good team, right.
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@canton-dawg I'm just going to address your responses or questions instead of trying to quote them directly.
Canton Dawg: "Since Baker had a bad year, I was surprised they extended him. The timing was also suspicious because it wasn’t like there was a time constraint to extend the 5th year option???"
Riffer X: Not sure I completely understand your question here, but teams have timeframes to exercise options on rookie contracts. On April 23rd, 2021, Cleveland (CLE) exercised an $18.858 million option for 2022. This is absolutely and completely normal, especially given the (relatively speaking) cheap starting QB contract BM was under. Remember, we just came off the most successful season since 1994 under Belichick with BM playing the best football of his career the final half of the season. He just beat Pitt in a road playoff game, so it was an absolute no-brainer that they picked up his option. Anything else would have caused a firestorm. All this was doing was extending his rookie contract to 5 years, it wasn't giving him a raise or anything.
Canton Dawg: "I wasn’t of the mindset of giving Baker a big contract, as he didn’t really do anything to deserve it. I was ok with extending his contract for the 5th year to see what he can do when healthy. If he sucked, 2023 looks to be a good QB class."
Riffer X: We are in agreement here, which is why you pick up his fifth-year option assuming he will be auditioning for his big contract extension in 2022. He blew that in 2021 for a myriad of reasons.
Canton Dawg: "So I take it you’re ok with the baggage DW brings with him?"
and
"Just so you know where I stand on Watson, I think he’s a slight upgrade over Mayfield and the numbers show it. But no way in hell is he worth the draft capital and money Haslam paid for. If he doesn’t bring a SB Championship to Cleveland very quickly, this player acquisition will be one of the all time worst deals in Browns history."
Riffer X: I have no issues whatsoever with Watson's baggage because I personally think this is a money grab and have all along. Now, does the guy have some fetishes that counseling could help? Sure, but as I told MJP, Watson is an investment, and the sooner fans view him that way the better off they will be. He has never had any other issues besides this massage BS and is considered a film rat, hardcore competitor and good leader.
We disagree here. Watson is an elite QB who has never had a cockpit to play behind like we have here. He is a huge upgrade over Mayfield with his legs and mobility alone, and his stats are much better than Baker's. Watson is an elite QB, whereas Baker is mid-tier at best with occasional glimpses of stellar play. I highlighted many of the big differences below.
Mayfield Rushing and Receiving
I'm just going to say that we have 2 of the top 5 runningbacks in the NFL, we are a run first built offense. Why do people think that Baker should have almost 5000 yards? He was amazing at play action and accurate as hell when healthy. We play in some of the nastiest weather in the NFL and feature 2 bell cow runningbacks...
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Can't be guaranteed obviously but expecting a Super Bowl appearance resulting from this deal does not constitute being insane. To begin with I would define insanity in this case as the obscene cost paid for acquiring Watson...then being OK with merely "increasing the likelihood" of an SB appearance.
It is insane for a Browns fan to guarantee that with Watson the Browns will win a Super Bowl.
If you disagree, you haven't been paying attention to Browns football since the Super Bowl began.
And I'm more concerned about the price it took to get a QB who is staring down a possible long suspension and who is a PR nightmare, compared to the price that it cost to get a franchise QB. If Watson was just a QB who didn't want to play for the Texans and demanded a trade, sans the sexual abuse allegations, the price to me wouldn't be such a big deal. (Relatively saying, it still is quite a haul to get a QB, but it is what it is. Offer the Bengals three first round picks for Joe Burrow and they would laugh and laugh and laugh, then hang up on you.)
Now, for the trade to have paid off for the Browns, to make it all worth it, yes, I agree, the Browns need to win a Super Bowl with Watson.
It is insane for a Browns fan to guarantee that with Watson the Browns will win a Super Bowl.
If you disagree, you haven't been paying attention to Browns football since the Super Bowl began.
And I'm more concerned about the price it took to get a QB who is staring down a possible long suspension and who is a PR nightmare, compared to the price that it cost to get a franchise QB. If Watson was just a QB who didn't want to play for the Texans and demanded a trade, sans the sexual abuse allegations, the price to me wouldn't be such a big deal. (Relatively saying, it still is quite a haul to get a QB, but it is what it is. Offer the Bengals three first round picks for Joe Burrow and they would laugh and laugh and laugh, then hang up on you.)
Now, for the trade to have paid off for the Browns, to make it all worth it, yes, I agree, the Browns need to win a Super Bowl with Watson.
That’s pretty much my take.
I can hold my nose and root for Watson, but what I can’t get over is the price Jimmah paid for him.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Again.. Dan Marino was considered Elite... How many rings did he get?... ZERO!...
When you talk about the very best, franchise, top quarterbacks who have never won it all it would be :
Marino (no doubt), Kelly, Fouts, Moon, McNair, Tarkenton then maybe a few others plus a few one timers.
True if you want to be considered among the best except for these 6 plus maybe a very few others you need a ring.
( and a few of the 6 were so close Kelly, Tark, ? )
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Cal and stats
What a combination
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Cal and stats
What a combination
grow up, keep it to the other forum. They were not my stats.
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Were you listening when Doug Dieken lamented that wr's kept NOT getting open???????
Did you see OBJ's dad's video? I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open. Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?
Baker wanted things to be about him. Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.
Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB. He's the best we've had since our return. But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's. I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too. And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.
Did you see OBJ's dad's video? I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open. Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?
Baker wanted things to be about him. Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.
Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB. He's the best we've had since our return. But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's. I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too. And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.
yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ... -
Did you see OBJ's dad's video? I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open. Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?
Baker wanted things to be about him. Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.
Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB. He's the best we've had since our return. But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's. I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too. And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.
yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...Even if they are notorious for drops, the chances of catching the ball by throwing it to the open receiver are greater than trying to force it to a receiver that's covered.
If the open guy happens to drop it, then it's not on Baker, and no one could point fingers at him, coaches, fans, management, no one...so maybe he'd still be a Brown. But you're right about the fact that Baker needed receivers that can catch the damn ball.
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Did you see OBJ's dad's video? I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open. Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?
Baker wanted things to be about him. Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.
Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB. He's the best we've had since our return. But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's. I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too. And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.
yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...Another fine example of a lazy player getting paid then slacking off...
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yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...Another fine example of a lazy player getting paid then slacking off...
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Did you see OBJ's dad's video? I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open. Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?
Baker wanted things to be about him. Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.
Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB. He's the best we've had since our return. But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's. I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too. And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.
yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...Article is 4 years old.
Meanwhile for the rest of us living in 2022.
Njoku has a 61.7 catch percentage, a number that has steadily increased the last three seasons. His 67.9 catch percentage last season was a career high and led all Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
3.8 - To put the last stat a little differently, Njoku had a meager 3.8 drop percentage (two drops) last season, second-lowest among Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
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You Axed for it.
Sparkling Burgundy, mahogany body & neck, ebony fretboard, Grover Rotomatic locking tuners, Burstbuster Pro & Burstbuster Pro Plus, mother of pearl inlays, sculpted neckjoint, push/pull pots, Donaldson Blackwing intake, drilled and slotted rotors...oh wait, some of that is my car.
I just put it down (again) a few minutes ago. I've been trying to decide which pickups to put in. Seymour Duncan Seth Lover, Pearly Gates, '59's, Antiquities I'd love but they don't come in 4 wire. But every time I play it I'm thinking to myself, WTH is wrong with 'these' pickups? And the answer is, Nothing. They sound freakin' great (to my ear anyhow).
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I'm a JB/59 guy.. Have that combo in probably 15 instruments around here in the studio.. They all have different personalities..
My Lesters
And what we do..
https://arielsattic1usa.bandcamp.com/track/hallelujah
Now back to Baker hoping to wrangle the job from Sam Darnold...
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
yep. I wouldn't throw to obj and njoku either. They drop passes. As I posted - obj has a worst top ten dropped passes rating in the NFL.
njoku had rock hands on easy throws to catch, especially over the middle.
You throw to the wr's who can catch the ball.
The giants were delighted to get obj the hell out of town. His dad's video.... doesn't explain his being a huge disappointment in NY.
watch and learn the truth:
Njoku continues to struggle with drops early on during training camp, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.. This has been a consistent theme for Njoku during the first week ...Article is 4 years old.
Meanwhile for the rest of us living in 2022.
Njoku has a 61.7 catch percentage, a number that has steadily increased the last three seasons. His 67.9 catch percentage last season was a career high and led all Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
3.8 - To put the last stat a little differently, Njoku had a meager 3.8 drop percentage (two drops) last season, second-lowest among Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
Article is 4 years old.
Meanwhile for the rest of us living in 2022.
Njoku has a 61.7 catch percentage, a number that has steadily increased the last three seasons. His 67.9 catch percentage last season was a career high and led all Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
3.8 - To put the last stat a little differently, Njoku had a meager 3.8 drop percentage (two drops) last season, second-lowest among Browns receivers with 50 or more targets.
so what.
this article is not 4 years old. 2020. I'm sure you are a hot shot subscriber....
Aug 19, 2020Njoku dropped just 3 of 35 catchable passes in 2017, according to Pro Football Focus. That gave him a drop rate of 8.6, 21st among qualifying tight ends. But that drop rate ballooned the next year ...
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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