HERO WITH HANDGUN Police praise armed 'good Samaritan' who neutralized gunman during deadly rampage at mall
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If the guy isn't standing directly in front of me pointing his gun at me or somebody else then I'm not going to hunt him down, it's not my fucking job. I'm not John McClane fucking Die Hard.
Yes it's bad on many levels, that our government can't come up with a solution to combat violence.
That ordinary people becoming the "hero" and becoming another shooter in an already fucked up situation
That we as Americans have to worry about getting shot at churches, schools, malls, pretty much anywhere
That a bunch of armed cops standing around in a hallway of a school while a gunman kills students
Now it's up to me to stop an armed gunman because the police can't? If he is not a direct threat to me or someone around me, I'm not getting involved. And who knows in this age potentially opening up the door to a lawsuit. This was pure luck and nothing else that this didn't go another direction, the "hero" could have accidentally killed a bystander.
You're more worried about the hero possibly shooting a bystander over the certainty of the gunman killing more people. That is your example of this incident "going sideways"? Dear Lord.
True, police can't stop the gunman but only because in most cases damage has been done before they can arrive on the scene.
So yes, it's up to you. Don't act as though Ulvave is the norm to support your position.
Thirdly, and most importantly, it is not the job of the police to protect you or anyone.
The US Supreme Court has made it clear that law enforcement agencies are not required to provide protection to the citizens who are forced to pay the police for their "services."
You want to talk about lawsuits. Law enforcement agencies cannot be on the hook for every violent act committed by private citizens.
The police motto "To Serve and Protect" is a misnomer. They are not constitutionally obligated to do so.
So again, it's up to you if you have a gun.
True, police can't stop the gunman
it is not the job of the police to protect you or anyone.
So defund the police , right? There is a drug epidemic where I live. People dying from overdoses so fast that they need freezer trucks for all the dead bodies. So what else are they good for except boosting the cities coffers with my hard earned money? Instead of paying the police, use that money to fix our damn streets that have been full of pot holes for the past 50 years so I speed like a demon in my 500+ HP car that I worked hard for.
desire to walk around with guns were not afraid to use them.
Who said I was afraid to use it? If I'm not directly in danger, it's my discretion. If you come in my house uninvited, you're leaving in a body bag.?
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This is bad on so many levels, I would not want my name to be associated with this. I would do what I was trained to do. Find a place to hide, lock the door, and call the police and wait for the shooting to stop. Only use my weapon if my life is at risk.
So you'd rather have your name associated with "the guy who had gun but hid in the closet waiting for the shooting to stop"?
Before reading your post I've always took for granted that those having the desire to walk around with guns were not afraid to use them.
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If the guy isn't standing directly in front of me pointing his gun at me or somebody else then I'm not going to hunt him down, it's not my fucking job. I'm not John McClane fucking Die Hard.
Yes it's bad on many levels, that our government can't come up with a solution to combat violence.
That ordinary people becoming the "hero" and becoming another shooter in an already fucked up situation
That we as Americans have to worry about getting shot at churches, schools, malls, pretty much anywhere
That a bunch of armed cops standing around in a hallway of a school while a gunman kills students
Now it's up to me to stop an armed gunman because the police can't? If he is not a direct threat to me or someone around me, I'm not getting involved. And who knows in this age potentially opening up the door to a lawsuit. This was pure luck and nothing else that this didn't go another direction, the "hero" could have accidentally killed a bystander.
You're more worried about the hero possibly shooting a bystander over the certainty of the gunman killing more people. That is your example of this incident "going sideways"? Dear Lord.
True, police can't stop the gunman but only because in most cases damage has been done before they can arrive on the scene.
So yes, it's up to you. Don't act as though Ulvave is the norm to support your position.
Thirdly, and most importantly, it is not the job of the police to protect you or anyone.
The US Supreme Court has made it clear that law enforcement agencies are not required to provide protection to the citizens who are forced to pay the police for their "services."
You want to talk about lawsuits. Law enforcement agencies cannot be on the hook for every violent act committed by private citizens.
The police motto "To Serve and Protect" is a misnomer. They are not constitutionally obligated to do so.
So again, it's up to you if you have a gun.
That is your example of this incident "going sideways"? Dear Lord.
This could have gone bad in more ways than just hitting a child or another bystander. Hero shoots gunman, hero #2 hears gunfire and doesn't see hero #1 shoot the suspect and sees hero#1 with a gun and shoots him in the back. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to get in a gunfight at a mall unless it is absolutely the last resort.
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Yes, he only murdered three people...
Mission Accomplished i
Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
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Yes, he only murdered three people...
Mission Accomplished i
Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
Sounds like you hate freedom
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They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
Sounds like you hate freedom
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Can't really tell, I've never experienced it.
???
WSS
That's not true. You play PIB. That's pure, unfiltered American freedom
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That is your example of this incident "going sideways"? Dear Lord.
This could have gone bad in more ways than just hitting a child or another bystander. Hero shoots gunman, hero #2 hears gunfire and doesn't see hero #1 shoot the suspect and sees hero#1 with a gun and shoots him in the back. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to get in a gunfight at a mall unless it is absolutely the last resort.
This could have gone bad in more ways than just hitting a child or another bystander. Hero shoots gunman, hero #2 hears gunfire and doesn't see hero #1 shoot the suspect and sees hero#1 with a gun and shoots him in the back. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to get in a gunfight at a mall unless it is absolutely the last resort.
You're just digging a deeper hole to hide in. People were running away from the original shooter and past the guy trying to kill him. The chances of someone trying to kill the shooter getting shot by another when he is actively signalling people to go around behind him are just about nil. Trade in your man card for a wimp card.
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True, police can't stop the gunman
it is not the job of the police to protect you or anyone.
So defund the police , right? There is a drug epidemic where I live. People dying from overdoses so fast that they need freezer trucks for all the dead bodies. So what else are they good for except boosting the cities coffers with my hard earned money? Instead of paying the police, use that money to fix our damn streets that have been full of pot holes for the past 50 years so I speed like a demon in my 500+ HP car that I worked hard for.
desire to walk around with guns were not afraid to use them.
Who said I was afraid to use it? If I'm not directly in danger, it's my discretion. If you come in my house uninvited, you're leaving in a body bag.?
️
So defund the police , right? There is a drug epidemic where I live. People dying from overdoses so fast that they need freezer trucks for all the dead bodies. So what else are they good for except boosting the cities coffers with my hard earned money? Instead of paying the police, use that money to fix our damn streets that have been full of pot holes for the past 50 years so I speed like a demon in my 500+ HP car that I worked hard for.
Maybe the appropriate amount of police funding is somewhere in between "defund the police" and "give them an MRAP and LMGs." The Dayton shooting was probably about the quickest reaction you will ever see to a mass shooter from police on the beat. This shooting is about the quickest reaction you will see to a mass shooter from an armed civilian. By nature of being a reactive force, the number of victims will never be zero unless you stop these things preemptively. I am much more concerned about how far the government is willing to go down that road than I am worried about dying/getting maimed in a mass shooting.
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Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
I was totally disgusted when the Texas legislature did away with the required CCL and it's successor the LTC. Now any damn fool watching cowboy movies can sling on a .45 and go blasting away with no training whatsoever nor proof of proficiency with the weapon they carry. That to me was a totally irresponsible change in the law and very dangerous in my opinion. I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning. Didn't want no mad mama bears or cougars trying to snack on one of us for brunch to protect their young.
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This could have gone bad in more ways than just hitting a child or another bystander. Hero shoots gunman, hero #2 hears gunfire and doesn't see hero #1 shoot the suspect and sees hero#1 with a gun and shoots him in the back. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to get in a gunfight at a mall unless it is absolutely the last resort.
You're just digging a deeper hole to hide in. People were running away from the original shooter and past the guy trying to kill him. The chances of someone trying to kill the shooter getting shot by another when he is actively signalling people to go around behind him are just about nil. Trade in your man card for a wimp card.
You're just digging a deeper hole to hide in. People were running away from the original shooter and past the guy trying to kill him. The chances of someone trying to kill the shooter getting shot by another when he is actively signalling people to go around behind him are just about nil. Trade in your man card for a wimp card.
If I am caught in an active shooter situation I can do whatever I damn well please and deem necessary. This is where I hand you an eat a dick card.
EDIT: BTW who the fuck trained you to that?
I recorded the entire Concealed Handgun License course with a pocket recorder and they absolutely tell us that we are not law enforcement and in active shooter situations to take shelter and wait for the police. Only engage the suspect if we are engaged. It's amazing how many people confuse a CHL designed for personal defense with a license to kill. I guess there are retards everywhere?
️ And by the way, Texas sucks. I've been there once and that was enough for one life time.
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If the guy isn't standing directly in front of me pointing his gun at me or somebody else then I'm not going to hunt him down, it's not my fucking job. I'm not John McClane fucking Die Hard.
Now it's up to me to stop an armed gunman because the police can't? If he is not a direct threat to me or someone around me, I'm not getting involved. And who knows in this age potentially opening up the door to a lawsuit. This was pure luck and nothing else that this didn't go another direction, the "hero" could have accidentally killed a bystander.
The hero had been trained from an early age. You can bet he knew what he was doing and he definitely saw this guy killing people with him as the only known person standing a chance to stop it from continuing. He shot from a pretty long distance initially as he put people running away behind him including his girlfriend whom he shoved down behind cover. To effectively take down a shooter at that range tells me his skills were well trained and kept up which is what anyone with a CC or LTC should be doing regularly on a range.
Here's the real questions for you. If you carry do you keep up your skills? Given the situation that there were in fact many people directly in front of the shooter, would you have stayed and tried to put down effective fire being very careful to be sure your well train ability would not hit an innocent person?
From the article below: "I will say his actions were nothing short of heroic," Ison said. "He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun, was very proficient in that, very tactically sound, and as he moved to close in on the suspect he was also motioning for people to exit behind him."
From another: "Many people would have died last night if not for a responsible armed citizen that took action very quickly within the first two minutes of this shooting."
Police said Eli learned to shoot from his grandfather and that he had no military or police training.
The hero had been trained from an early age. You can bet he knew what he was doing and he definitely saw this guy killing people with him as the only known person standing a chance to stop it from continuing. He shot from a pretty long distance initially as he put people running away behind him including his girlfriend whom he shoved down behind cover. To effectively take down a shooter at that range tells me his skills were well trained and kept up which is what anyone with a CC or LTC should be doing regularly on a range.
Here's the real questions for you. If you carry do you keep up your skills? Given the situation that there were in fact many people directly in front of the shooter, would you have stayed and tried to put down effective fire being very careful to be sure your well train ability would not hit an innocent person?
From the article below: "I will say his actions were nothing short of heroic," Ison said. "He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun, was very proficient in that, very tactically sound, and as he moved to close in on the suspect he was also motioning for people to exit behind him."
From another: "Many people would have died last night if not for a responsible armed citizen that took action very quickly within the first two minutes of this shooting."
Police said Eli learned to shoot from his grandfather and that he had no military or police training.
You act like you live in a movie where this will play out exactly the same every time. It was a miracle nobody else got hurt and he was able to kill the guy limiting the damage. I would not be proud of having to kill a maniac with a gun because our country is too fucked up to deal with the actual problem. I would tell them to not release my name.
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They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
I was totally disgusted when the Texas legislature did away with the required CCL and it's successor the LTC. Now any damn fool watching cowboy movies can sling on a .45 and go blasting away with no training whatsoever nor proof of proficiency with the weapon they carry. That to me was a totally irresponsible change in the law and very dangerous in my opinion. I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning. Didn't want no mad mama bears or cougars trying to snack on one of us for brunch to protect their young.
I was totally disgusted when the Texas legislature did away with the required CCL and it's successor the LTC. Now any damn fool watching cowboy movies can sling on a .45 and go blasting away with no training whatsoever nor proof of proficiency with the weapon they carry. That to me was a totally irresponsible change in the law and very dangerous in my opinion. I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning. Didn't want no mad mama bears or cougars trying to snack on one of us for brunch to protect their young.
Ohio has had constitutional carry since June 13th. No gun battles in the super markets or on the streets yet since they have. ?
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They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
I was totally disgusted when the Texas legislature did away with the required CCL and it's successor the LTC. Now any damn fool watching cowboy movies can sling on a .45 and go blasting away with no training whatsoever nor proof of proficiency with the weapon they carry. That to me was a totally irresponsible change in the law and very dangerous in my opinion. I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning. Didn't want no mad mama bears or cougars trying to snack on one of us for brunch to protect their young.
I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning.
You need a concealed carry to bring a weapon in the back country of Colorado?
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Sadly 3 funerals < 10 funerals < 20 funerals.
I'm still shocked that he got his got his CCW pistol shots off and on target. He must have had a first shot on target......NOT an easy thing for a non trained private citizen. I used to target practice against a 55 gallon drum in my backyard and NOT got every shot exactly on target. And nobody was shooting back.
IF HE MISSED the killer would have cut him up to pieces.
Mission accomplished indeed. Whew !
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
They should absolutely require training for a CCW.
WSS
I'm all for and feel so much better knowing that people who carry a loaded deadly weapon have a license. Having classroom and live shooting practice before getting a license to carry just makes sense.
BUT now in many states that is reduced to ZERO training. My nightmare scenario.
Guy goes from payday ---> gun store ---> night on the town ---> playing Dirty Harry. OK jerk, make my day !
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I keep mine in force so I can carry when I go hiking the back country of Colorado like I did with my grandkid and grandniece just this morning.
You need a concealed carry to bring a weapon in the back country of Colorado?
You need a concealed carry to bring a weapon in the back country of Colorado?
An LTC open carry is now allowed as of this year, but before that it was a CC state only and reciprocity with my LTC state made it CC only.
You act like you live in a movie where this will play out exactly the same every time. It was a miracle nobody else got hurt and he was able to kill the guy limiting the damage. I would not be proud of having to kill a maniac with a gun because our country is too fucked up to deal with the actual problem. I would tell them to not release my name.
You must not be very confident about your shooting skills. I am because I practice with it regularly and know the distances I can shoot effectively. I have also had to return fire (in a war) when others were shooting at me, so I know I can still be effective when under fire. No movie, just lessons from real life. I would have taken the guy on as well, but that's just how I'm made and was trained by my WW II small arms training expert father from a very early age on. And this is a stand your ground state where if you know what you are doing and can stop something immediately, you get no repercussions for doing so.
And the miracle here is really that there was someone there who could do exactly what he did and saved far more lives than he ever put at risk. There are a lot of grateful families in Indiana not having to go what those in other mass shootings are still going through years after the events. And if you are ever in such a situation, I hope you change your tune.
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This is bad on so many levels, I would not want my name to be associated with this. I would do what I was trained to do. Find a place to hide, lock the door, and call the police and wait for the shooting to stop. Only use my weapon if my life is at risk.
This is bad on so many levels, I would not want my name to be associated with this. I would do what I was trained to do. Find a place to hide, lock the door, and call the police and wait for the shooting to stop. Only use my weapon if my life is at risk.
Neo, if there is a gunman letting loose in the same room you are, you wouldn't consider your life at risk?
What a low bar we've set where some are happy/content with an outcome where 4 people are dead and 2 more injured...
Arming everyone isn't a solution. It's hardly a bandaid.
Woody, you were pissed off about the response time in Uvalde. If you wait for the police response in this situation, then you are looking at a death toll in the double digits. The government cannot protect you from everything and everyone who is violent. Everyone ought to play a role in their personal safety instead of leaving it up to the people who are 15x more likely to beat their wives. Arming more people in the US is a more realistic solution than enacting what they did in Europe/Australia/NZ. You want our government to have much more severe, draconian overreach, and you're upset that people are happy that this good Samaritan saved lives. You can be both angry at the shooter and happy for the good Samaritan.
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