Colts/Vikings officiating
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Yeah, I'm sorry, but that to me is a clean hit. He basically leads with his shoulder to the WRs stomach in an attempt to stay far away from his head.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but that to me is a clean hit. He basically leads with his shoulder to the WRs stomach in an attempt to stay far away from his head.
But what about the other element of the rule, he never had time to establish himself as a runner. He could have waited for him to land then delivered the hit.
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There's almost always going to be a hint of helmet contact on damn near any collision like that. It's the nature of the size of the bucket, my guy. If you go to put your shoulder and head into a receivers chest to separate the ball, chances are you're going to get the tiniest piece of incidental helmet contact. Anyone who has ever played, damn near regardless of the level, will tell you the exact same thing. The key is to not use the crown to lead. Then I might be able to support the zebras throwing laundry.
It was a great play by Gilmore. A garbage read and throw by Kirk that was rewarded by not being able to do, what should give any QB and WR pause when trying some risky/dumb bullshit - getting your teammate absolutely splattered.
Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.
Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.
With the .gif you just posted, there looks to be almost zero helmet contact now. So no, there is no "just kidding" from me. Gilmore's hands were in the chest of JJ, no leading with the helmet. Flat out I'm going to separate the WR from the ball as a DB, especially with these kids who are pure athletes and strong as hell. Popping that ball out is harder than ever I'm sure. And I'm going to set the tone that you don't hang your WR's out to dry. Wait for him to "establish as a runner" is that new aged bullshit which only punishes defenses for offenses playing poorly. I'm young enough to be half the age of most of this board, but I'm old enough to know what good, hard hitting and clean football used to be. But like you said, you didn't play.
edit: And one more thing about 'defenseless receiver'. It's a thing, but this isn't that. WR's are reading coverage along with their QB, so if you're putting yourself in a spot to go for a catch that you know shouldn't be coming your way based on coverage, and as a WR you know where the DB's are at (95% of the time) then you're acknowledging the increased risk of the attempt and still trying to make the play. Defenseless means you didn't have a choice to protect yourself at almost any point in the play.
Crushing a receiver and blindsiding him if he's removed from, away from or well after the play would qualify as actually defenseless. What you're seeing here is 'offense scores points, people like excitement, excitement = eyes' Not good football in the least. And I would absolutely expect the NFL to take a long look at it, along with the sacks/roughing the passer, this upcoming off season. Just because it's 'the rule', doesn't make it good.
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Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.
With the .gif you just posted, there looks to be almost zero helmet contact now. So no, there is no "just kidding" from me. Gilmore's hands were in the chest of JJ, no leading with the helmet. Flat out I'm going to separate the WR from the ball as a DB, especially with these kids who are pure athletes and strong as hell. Popping that ball out is harder than ever I'm sure. And I'm going to set the tone that you don't hang your WR's out to dry. Wait for him to "establish as a runner" is that new aged bullshit which only punishes defenses for offenses playing poorly. I'm young enough to be half the age of most of this board, but I'm old enough to know what good, hard hitting and clean football used to be. But like you said, you didn't play.
edit: And one more thing about 'defenseless receiver'. It's a thing, but this isn't that. WR's are reading coverage along with their QB, so if you're putting yourself in a spot to go for a catch that you know shouldn't be coming your way based on coverage, and as a WR you know where the DB's are at (95% of the time) then you're acknowledging the increased risk of the attempt and still trying to make the play. Defenseless means you didn't have a choice to protect yourself at almost any point in the play.
Crushing a receiver and blindsiding him if he's removed from, away from or well after the play would qualify as actually defenseless. What you're seeing here is 'offense scores points, people like excitement, excitement = eyes' Not good football in the least. And I would absolutely expect the NFL to take a long look at it, along with the sacks/roughing the passer, this upcoming off season. Just because it's 'the rule', doesn't make it good.
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But it's still in the rule book.
Again, that's not in question here. But the rule book, in order to establish as a runner, means I have to allow him to not only catch the ball but then permit the WR space to make a football move which then makes it a catch AND him as a runner. Otherwise if his two feet land and the ball is knocked loose, it's not a fumble because he hasn't executed a 'football move' to clearly establish both possession AND to be a runner.
Yeah, fuck that entirely. Leave it to the NFL to not be able to even clearly understand their own rules on what's a catch, what's a fumble, who's a runner, etc etc. I know what good football is. What Gilmore got slapped with ain't that.
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But it's still in the rule book.
Again, that's not in question here. But the rule book, in order to establish as a runner, means I have to allow him to not only catch the ball but then permit the WR space to make a football move which then makes it a catch AND him as a runner. Otherwise if his two feet land and the ball is knocked loose, it's not a fumble because he hasn't executed a 'football move' to clearly establish both possession AND to be a runner.
Yeah, fuck that entirely. Leave it to the NFL to not be able to even clearly understand their own rules on what's a catch, what's a fumble, who's a runner, etc etc. I know what good football is. What Gilmore got slapped with ain't that.
Yeah, fuck that entirely.
Yeah, fuck the rule book. You know, I'm so very close to saying "fuck football" all together. To think my 20+ years of misery as a Browns fan was at the hands of some zebra's. Have we all forgotten about Bottle Gate? Because that Minnisota game had shades of Bottle Gate, no fuck that, it had Bottle Gate written all over it.
If that same play was a Browns receiver and the play meant the difference from going to the playoffs or going home, I guaranfuckintee you would be crying about the rule book.
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Yeah, fuck that entirely.
Yeah, fuck the rule book. You know, I'm so very close to saying "fuck football" all together. To think my 20+ years of misery as a Browns fan was at the hands of some zebra's. Have we all forgotten about Bottle Gate? Because that Minnisota game had shades of Bottle Gate, no fuck that, it had Bottle Gate written all over it.
If that same play was a Browns receiver and the play meant the difference from going to the playoffs or going home, I guaranfuckintee you would be crying about the rule book.
If that same play was a Browns receiver and the play meant the difference from going to the playoffs or going home, I guaranfuckintee you would be crying about the rule book.
Absolutely not. I maintain my integrity by maintaining my consistency. If the Browns lost because our QB continuously made bad reads and tossed the ball into coverage where it had no place being, then we wouldn't be "going home" because of a lack of laundry. We'd be going home because of a lack of execution. Then I'd rightfully breakdown the missed opportunities by our QB and offense, just like I've always done, even in wins. I'd shrug and say "it is what it is". Because I value the game itself above all.
And there's where we'll leave off with this conversation.
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By rule he was defenseless.
But Was Gilmore’s contact “unnecessary” by rule. He threw a shoulder and he launched but he was hitting a higher target. The act of leaving his feet and throwing the shoulder…might be the factor here.
If he goes lower and wraps and plants the WR…maybe it is really unnecessary. Thinking double leg takedown wrestling style. If he wraps and rolls rugby style - definitely not - but does he run the risk of not making the tackle.
I side toward no penalty but not really an egregious no call or call IMO
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I think this thread has run it's course but I will add just one last thing. NFL rules of a completed catch state a receiver must maintain control with two feet down inbounds while the receiver has the right to try to catch it. There are exceptions such as being shoved out of bounds but Justin Jefferson is clearly inbounds and catches the ball mid air and is lit up not having the chance to complete the catch. OK, I'll give you the hit itself was not dirty but there is clearly a foul here. It may have been called wrong on the field but you can't tell me there is no penalty here.
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Leading with the head is the foul. Plain and simple. and extremely dangerous.
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Leading with the head is the foul. Plain and simple. and extremely dangerous.
I’m not seeing the leading with head part…he actually led with the shoulder
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I’m not seeing the leading with head part…he actually led with the shoulder
He didn't.
He actually did a good job not using his head AND avoiding the WRs head.
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So what I gather from the responses is Stephan Gilmore is this technically sound corner who made great play, but he is incapable of waiting another half second to knock the ball out of his hand or deliver the exact same hit only the guy was able to land on his feet. I've seen many times a guy running across the field and get destroyed as soon as he gets his hands on it and all is good. What is Jefferson supposed to do two feet off the ground? This league tends to give the offensive player the benefit of doubt but what some of you are saying is Jefferson has no right and the DB is the only one allowed to make that play even though you are ignoring the obvious that he was defenseless. The league called it a foul, it's in the rule book as a foul and they made it pretty clear that it is a foul, but not you guys.?
What are you going to tell me next that Bottle Gate wasn't actually bullshit and it was a good call? What about the obvious fumble scoop and score by Minnesota that they wiped off the board, was that a good call too???
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I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it
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I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it
I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it
PERFECT coverage lol ?
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I don't think Josh Allen scored on Saturday night either. Said he "broke the plane" but the ball ended up around the 3 yard line.
Imagine trying to explain these rules to a foreigner. Two feet in, one elbow, a knee, surviving the ground, the ground can't cause a fumble, etc etc.
I maintain that instant replay reviews have damaged the NFL officiating nearly beyond repair. But they'll never go back on it now.
Karlis Missed -
I don't think Josh Allen scored on Saturday night either. Said he "broke the plane" but the ball ended up around the 3 yard line.
Imagine trying to explain these rules to a foreigner. Two feet in, one elbow, a knee, surviving the ground, the ground can't cause a fumble, etc etc.
I maintain that instant replay reviews have damaged the NFL officiating nearly beyond repair. But they'll never go back on it now.
I don't think Josh Allen scored on Saturday night either. Said he "broke the plane" but the ball ended up around the 3 yard line.
Imagine trying to explain these rules to a foreigner. Two feet in, one elbow, a knee, surviving the ground, the ground can't cause a fumble, etc etc.
I maintain that instant replay reviews have damaged the NFL officiating nearly beyond repair. But they'll never go back on it now.
One knee = two feet.
One foot in in college but two feet in professional football. And "probably " one of the biggest sports rulebooks in all sports.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it
PERFECT coverage lol ?
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This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.
I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.
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This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.
I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.
This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.
I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.
Generally speaking the rules are poorly drafted and then poorly interpreted especially (personal fouls, unnecessary roughness). And Not too long ago we had purists complaining about instant replay. Are you kidding me the Refs need all the help they can get!!!
And for crying out loud quit blowing plays dead. Let the action play out. I think I saw three instances where turnovers happened but the team that created the turnover couldn’t advance the ball because of a whistle.
What do you do about officials???Train them better, Fine them and or don’t assign them. These folks have two jobs some of them are teachers, lawyers, Financial Analysts. You mean to tell me an organization like the NFL and the money it makes can’t regulate the profession more!!! This needs to a be a full time job around the clock.
what do teams do…get up by two scores so a blown call doesn’t decide the contest.
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This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.
I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.
This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.
I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.
Yep. There are times when a call is NOT called, and the ref is standing right about 5 yards away, the defender grabs the wr's arm, turns him away from the throw.... and the wr is trying to tell him...but the ref walks away.
something isn't right there, ...I don't see it in college that much at all. In a crowd, not seeing a quick facemask grab is understandable, but come on. Something is going on with....some...refs in the NFL.
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