Charting Quinn against the Vikings
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I found this to be an interesting read. The table doesn't show well, so you may want to open the link.
http://www.cleveland.com/dman/index.ssf/20..._a_look_in.html
Charting Brady Quinn: a look inside each pass play by the Cleveland Browns quarterback
by Dennis Manoloff, Plain Dealer Reporter
Tuesday September 15, 2009, 7:48 AM
Joshua Gunter/The Plain Dealer
Browns quarterback Brady Quinn has little room to throw as Minnesota Vikings defenders close in in him in the fourth quarter. A review of the Fox Sports telecast of Brady Quinn's performance Sunday in the Browns' 34-20 loss to the Vikings revealed he was slightly better than the numbers indicated -- which is to say, slightly above average.
Grade it a B--.
He did not lose the game, nor was he to blame for the lopsided second half. But he didn't put the Browns in position to do much, either.
Quinn went 21-of-35 for 205 yards and one touchdown. He threw one interception, which resulted from him and Braylon Edwards not being on the same page.
He had three passes legitimately dropped and two completions, including a TD, nullified by penalties, but he threw only a handful of balls that might have impressed Joe Montana or Troy Aikman. His best pass happened to be for the touchdown, but it came during "garbage'' time. Quinn threw a 26-yard strike to Robert Royal with 28 seconds left to account for the final margin.
Quinn was sacked five times and avoided a couple others with good footwork and pocket awareness, but it was not as if he was under siege all afternoon. For the majority of plays, the line gave him plenty of time. He simply did not do much with it.
Quinn rarely threw deep and dinked and dunked a lot. How much of that was by game-plan design, and how much was dictated by his limitations or that of the personnel around him, should become evident in the coming weeks as Quinn assembles an uninterrupted body of work.
Here is a look at each of the Browns' pass plays Sunday, all of which involved Quinn:
Game 1 vs. Minnesota, Sept. 13
Vikings 34, Browns 20
Brady Quinn
21-of-35 for 205 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 interception Qtr Situation Snap Pressure Throw Result (Receiver) Yards
gained
or lost Yards
in air
from
line Yards after catch
1 2-4 @ M45 Center Yes Left Inc (Edwards) - 21 -
1 1-10 @ M40 Center Yes (Scamble) Right Comp (Royal) 18 18 0
1 1-10 @ M22 Shotgun Yes Right Inc (Royal) - 4 -
1 3-9 @ M21 Shotgun No Middle Comp (Davis) 1 -3 4
1 2-8 @ C24 Shotgun No Right Comp (Cribbs) 2 -1 3
2 2-10 @ C14 Center Yes Left Comp (Royal) 5 2 3
2 3-5 @ C19 Shotgun Yes - Sack -9 - -
2 2-8 @ C27 Center No Middle Comp (Vickers) 12 3 9
2 1-10 @ M46 Center No Middle Comp (Heiden) 7 6 1
2 1-10 @ M34 Center No Left * D-Penalty (Edwards) - 34 -
2 1-10 @ C42 Center Yes Left Inc (Edwards) - 5 -
2 3-16 @ C36 Shotgun Yes (Scamble) - Run 11 - -
2 1-10 @ C39 Shotgun Yes Middle Inc (Davis) - -5 -
2 2-10 @ C39 Shotgun Yes Right Comp (Davis) 2 1 1
2 3-8 @ C41 Shotgun Yes - Sack -1 - -
3 2-10 @ 50 Center No Left * INT (Edwards) - 30 -
3 1-10 @ C19 Shotgun No Right Comp (Royal) 11 4 7
3 1-10 @ C30 Shotgun No Left Comp (Furrey) 2 -1 3
4 1-10 @ C40 Shotgun No Left Comp (Edwards) 12 9 3
4 1-10 @ M48 Shotgun No Right Inc (Furrey) - 21 -
4 3-13 @ C49 Shotgun Yes (Hit) Right Inc (Cribbs) - 31 -
4 1-10 @ C27 Shotgun No Right Comp (Davis) 1 1 0
4 2-9 @ C28 Shotgun No Right Comp (Heiden) 7 7 0
4 3-7 @ C30 Shotgun No Left Comp (Furrey) 10 10 0
4 1-10 @ C40 Shotgun Yes (Scramble) - Fumble - - -
4 1-15 @ C21 Shotgun No Middle Inc (Royal) - 5 0
4 2-15 @ C21 Shotgun No Left Inc (Edwards) - 29 -
4 3-15 @ C21 Shotgun Yes (Scramble) Right Comp (Cribbs) 8 8 0
4 1-10 @ C19 Shotgun Yes - Sack -2 - -
4 2-12 @ C17 Shotgun No Middle Comp (Lewis) 19 3 16
4 1-10 @ C36 Shotgun No Middle Inc (Royal) - 10 -
4 2-10 @ C36 Shotgun Yes (Hit) Left Inc (Royal) - 4 -
4 3-10 @ C36 Shotgun * Yes Left Inc (Furrey) - 10 -
4 4-10 @ C36 Shotgun No Middle Inc (Royal) - 13 -
4 1-10 @ C20 Shotgun Yes (Scramble) - Run 10 - -
4 1-10 @ C30 Shotgun No Right Comp (Lewis) 11 2 9
4 1-10 @ C41 Shotgun No Right Inc (Furrey) - 4 -
4 2-10 @ C41 Shotgun Yes Left Comp (Lewis) 17 4 13
4 1-10 @ M42 Shotgun No Middle Comp (Furrey) 5 5 -
4 2-5 @ M37 Shotgun Yes Right Comp (Furrey) 11 3 8
4 1-10 @ M26 Shotgun No Middle * O-Penalty (Cribbs) - 5 -
4 1-20 @ M36 Shotgun No Right Comp (Massaquoi) 18 14 4
4 2-2 @ M18 Shotgun Yes - Sack -8 - -
4 3-10 @ M26 Shotgun No Middle Comp (Royal) 26 (TD)
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LOL ... I only opened this thread because I thought the title read, "Charlie Quinn against the Vikings"
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
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LOL ... I only opened this thread because I thought the title read, "Charlie Quinn against the Vikings"
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
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Pretty much looked like a guy with 3 career starts. I'm not sure what everyone is getting so excited about. They played a defense that is pretty good. And they struggled to convert 3rd downs.
If you look a the chart (I don't pay much attention to the last bit, because it's not as if the Vikings were putting up much resistance.), you've got a couple of miscues, couple of slow reads, couple of protection breakdowns, and some short completions.
I'm no expert here, but the problem may have been that Quinn attempted only 3 passes in the 3rd quarter.
The defense just couldn't get themselves off the field in the 3rd. And by the time Peterson broke the 80 yard run in the 4th, the defense was gassed. Or, at least I hope they were. If they weren't, I can't explain how a 11 professional football players can have a running back run 25 yards, stop, turn around, stiff-arm a guy to the ground, then turn back upfield, and only have 2 guys in the frame with him. David Bowens flat out quit on that one. He needs to realize that Alex Hall would've chased Peterson to the parking lot if he had to. D'Qwell Jackson got pancaked at the line. How the hell do you get pancaked as a linebacker by the guard that's right in front of you???? That is piss-poor execution. Pool looked like he didn't want any part of him. Coleman, Williams and Rogers got manhandled - single man manhandled. Rogers was flopping like he was trying to draw a charging foul. It was pathetic. That was a Pop Warner run. You don't make those runs in the pros. Hell, you don't make those runs in High School.
Of course this may also speak to the Browns lacking some depth. Who knows? But I'm not going to hang this one on Quinn. He was a little skittish and erratic. But, that's to be expected. He'll cool down.
-jj
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@shepwrite said:
I wondered about all the shotgun as opposed to three step drops and quick slants. I also wondered about the lack of screens.I agree -- he wasn't great, but he wasn't horrible (like, say, Cutler and Delhomme). Three drops, three other passes that could've been caught, two passes wiped out by penalty, and a pick on a bad route by Edwards. He had three good downfield throws -- a TD, a drop, and a penalty.
I'd give it a C-, myself.
Shep I am with you (and Mangini) on this. I saw good and bad from Quinn on the game. I also so some questionable play calling in the game. I would give Quinn a C for the game.
You'll also note the number of times the chart shows Quinn was pressured. There were far to many in that column.
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Pretty much looked like a guy with 3 career starts. I'm not sure what everyone is getting so excited about. They played a defense that is pretty good. And they struggled to convert 3rd downs.
If you look a the chart (I don't pay much attention to the last bit, because it's not as if the Vikings were putting up much resistance.), you've got a couple of miscues, couple of slow reads, couple of protection breakdowns, and some short completions.
I'm no expert here, but the problem may have been that Quinn attempted only 3 passes in the 3rd quarter.
The defense just couldn't get themselves off the field in the 3rd. And by the time Peterson broke the 80 yard run in the 4th, the defense was gassed. Or, at least I hope they were. If they weren't, I can't explain how a 11 professional football players can have a running back run 25 yards, stop, turn around, stiff-arm a guy to the ground, then turn back upfield, and only have 2 guys in the frame with him. David Bowens flat out quit on that one. He needs to realize that Alex Hall would've chased Peterson to the parking lot if he had to. D'Qwell Jackson got pancaked at the line. How the hell do you get pancaked as a linebacker by the guard that's right in front of you???? That is piss-poor execution. Pool looked like he didn't want any part of him. Coleman, Williams and Rogers got manhandled - single man manhandled. Rogers was flopping like he was trying to draw a charging foul. It was pathetic. That was a Pop Warner run. You don't make those runs in the pros. Hell, you don't make those runs in High School.
Of course this may also speak to the Browns lacking some depth. Who knows? But I'm not going to hang this one on Quinn. He was a little skittish and erratic. But, that's to be expected. He'll cool down.
-jj
Pretty much looked like a guy with 3 career starts. I'm not sure what everyone is getting so excited about. They played a defense that is pretty good. And they struggled to convert 3rd downs.
If you look a the chart (I don't pay much attention to the last bit, because it's not as if the Vikings were putting up much resistance.), you've got a couple of miscues, couple of slow reads, couple of protection breakdowns, and some short completions.
I'm no expert here, but the problem may have been that Quinn attempted only 3 passes in the 3rd quarter.
The defense just couldn't get themselves off the field in the 3rd. And by the time Peterson broke the 80 yard run in the 4th, the defense was gassed. Or, at least I hope they were. If they weren't, I can't explain how a 11 professional football players can have a running back run 25 yards, stop, turn around, stiff-arm a guy to the ground, then turn back upfield, and only have 2 guys in the frame with him. David Bowens flat out quit on that one. He needs to realize that Alex Hall would've chased Peterson to the parking lot if he had to. D'Qwell Jackson got pancaked at the line. How the hell do you get pancaked as a linebacker by the guard that's right in front of you???? That is piss-poor execution. Pool looked like he didn't want any part of him. Coleman, Williams and Rogers got manhandled - single man manhandled. Rogers was flopping like he was trying to draw a charging foul. It was pathetic. That was a Pop Warner run. You don't make those runs in the pros. Hell, you don't make those runs in High School.
Of course this may also speak to the Browns lacking some depth. Who knows? But I'm not going to hang this one on Quinn. He was a little skittish and erratic. But, that's to be expected. He'll cool down.
-jj
Always good to see your voice of reason Jason.
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@jadbf said:
Thanks Jason!What's your take on the interception?
Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
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@shepwrite said:
Yeah, there was a lot of talk about the defense being gassed and blaming it on the offense... but didn't the Vikings score on their first drive out of the half? That's where the wheels came off. Then the Browns had two nice runs and the interception on a bad route by Braylon. Two possessions and the game turned, right there.Like you said, JJ, Quinn didn't start throwing again until it was too late... and he seemed to be better once he was allowed to get in a groove. I sincerely think he was never settled until the last three possessions.
I think the wheels came off when Quinn threw the pick and we didn't answer that first drive...didn't help that we let harvin return it to the 45 then gave up 25 yards on the next three runs.
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@jadbf said:
Thanks Jason!What's your take on the interception?
Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
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@jadbf said:
Thanks Jason!What's your take on the interception?
Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
Question (insert Bevis voice if you like), why after the game and yesterday were Quinn, Edwards, and Reggie Rucker (on Reghi) saying the misread was on Edwards, in that he changed off the initial sight adjustment of man at the line - Ruckers take (hense BE ending up not where Quinn was expecting him to be)?
I get that the sight adjustment should have been the cover 3, but if Quinn thinks it's man and makes that sight adjustment, shouldn't BE know what Quinn read (some sort of signal to BE) and continue on that expect route? Is this one of those cases where 2 wrongs made 1 really big wrong?
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Exactly my thoughts on the play.
I remember thinking when Quinn turned to his left that Edwards was going to be wide open. Then I saw him uncork that rainbow and thought... Ohhh Noooo... 'cause there was no way Edwards was getting to the edge. I even said as much in my living room... When I saw Griffin set up, all I could think was, "just hold the Strong Safety for a beat..." And he did. Then he completely tanked the throw.
It was like watching your kid put a perfect swing on the ball, you jump up yelling... and he takes off toward third base. Wait!!! Nooooo!!!
-jj
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@jadbf said:
Thanks Jason!What's your take on the interception?
Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
Does that come with chemistry, or more film time? Because whether Quinn was wrong or BE was wrong, they both weren't on the same page. If they both make the "wrong" read, it's a TD. Or at least not a pick.
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Misread by Quinn at the line. He saw Man up w/ a single high safety. In actuality it was cover 3 rolling to Edwards. Griffin took a hard outside position pre-snap - which should've tipped the coverage. He has to have help underneath - in this case the Free Safety presses the slant. Edwards read it right. He called off the fade route and hit the seam full speed. That's a sight adjustment. Quinn needs to read the outside position, pick up the free safety and throw that ball on a line as soon as Edwards clears.
Instead, he started with his 1 read short right, saw the underneath coverage rolling that way, and came back to the backside fade. Unfortunately, he was still thinking he had man coverage on the back - he still thought he had a fade route running. He didn't. His first look held the Strong Safety on the midline and actully drew him to his (the SS's) left, creating a nice seam. But it reinforced the man look. I'm sure he thought, "There's my single high safety in the middle of the field, I've got my best guy man for man with no help." So he laid the ball up away from the safety. Good thought, but wrong.
He needed to pick up the read at the line. When he saw Griffin anchoring outside, he has to read zone. If he comes off of his first look thinking zone, he comes across the field and picks up the single high saftey dead-center of the field fading right and reads Cover 3. Now he knows he can zip the ball in there because there's no one under Edwards that far down the field, and the corner's going to be playing outside-in.
A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
Question (insert Bevis voice if you like), why after the game and yesterday were Quinn, Edwards, and Reggie Rucker (on Reghi) saying the misread was on Edwards, in that he changed off the initial sight adjustment of man at the line - Ruckers take (hense BE ending up not where Quinn was expecting him to be)?
I get that the sight adjustment should have been the cover 3, but if Quinn thinks it's man and makes that sight adjustment, shouldn't BE know what Quinn read (some sort of signal to BE) and continue on that expect route? Is this one of those cases where 2 wrongs made 1 really big wrong?
Masters said:
Question (insert Bevis voice if you like), why after the game and yesterday were Quinn, Edwards, and Reggie Rucker (on Reghi) saying the misread was on Edwards, in that he changed off the initial sight adjustment of man at the line - Ruckers take (hense BE ending up not where Quinn was expecting him to be)?I get that the sight adjustment should have been the cover 3, but if Quinn thinks it's man and makes that sight adjustment, shouldn't BE know what Quinn read (some sort of signal to BE) and continue on that expect route? Is this one of those cases where 2 wrongs made 1 really big wrong?
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to communicate like that. Edwards is pretty protective of his QB's and is pretty quick to take the blame for things. But I think he saw the free release inside. That's got to tip zone coverage. Or at least an over/under double team.
It'd be more likely that the two (Quinn and Edwards) made eye contact acknowledging a sight adjustment and Edwards knows Griffin is staking the outside zone and Quinn reads it as press man coverage. So in Quinn's head, he thinks he's adjusted to the fade and Edwards is adjusting to the seam route.
I just think Quinn misread it. But, you'd never get Edwards to say that.
-jj
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Pretty much looked like a guy with 3 career starts. I'm not sure what everyone is getting so excited about. They played a defense that is pretty good. And they struggled to convert 3rd downs.
If you look a the chart (I don't pay much attention to the last bit, because it's not as if the Vikings were putting up much resistance.), you've got a couple of miscues, couple of slow reads, couple of protection breakdowns, and some short completions.
I'm no expert here, but the problem may have been that Quinn attempted only 3 passes in the 3rd quarter.
The defense just couldn't get themselves off the field in the 3rd. And by the time Peterson broke the 80 yard run in the 4th, the defense was gassed. Or, at least I hope they were. If they weren't, I can't explain how a 11 professional football players can have a running back run 25 yards, stop, turn around, stiff-arm a guy to the ground, then turn back upfield, and only have 2 guys in the frame with him. David Bowens flat out quit on that one. He needs to realize that Alex Hall would've chased Peterson to the parking lot if he had to. D'Qwell Jackson got pancaked at the line. How the hell do you get pancaked as a linebacker by the guard that's right in front of you???? That is piss-poor execution. Pool looked like he didn't want any part of him. Coleman, Williams and Rogers got manhandled - single man manhandled. Rogers was flopping like he was trying to draw a charging foul. It was pathetic. That was a Pop Warner run. You don't make those runs in the pros. Hell, you don't make those runs in High School.
Of course this may also speak to the Browns lacking some depth. Who knows? But I'm not going to hang this one on Quinn. He was a little skittish and erratic. But, that's to be expected. He'll cool down.
-jj
David Bowens flat out quit on that one. He needs to realize that Alex Hall would've chased Peterson to the parking lot if he had to.
-jj
Ha! I thought about that also. Total lack of heart on that play. And a couple of the fellas' twitter posts that night confirmed it.
I still haven't decided which was more disheartening for me as a fan.
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A good read and a ball thrown on a line and Edwards scores without breaking stride. It was a bad read pure and simple... or at least kinda simple.
-jj
Does that come with chemistry, or more film time? Because whether Quinn was wrong or BE was wrong, they both weren't on the same page. If they both make the "wrong" read, it's a TD. Or at least not a pick.
Does that come with chemistry, or more film time? Because whether Quinn was wrong or BE was wrong, they both weren't on the same page. If they both make the "wrong" read, it's a TD. Or at least not a pick.
Your quarterback just made his 4th career start. It just takes some time. There are no easy answers. They're not going to develop telepathy, but Quinn and Edwards will be fine. It's just a misread. It happens all the time. That's why defensive coordinators get the big bucks. They can disguise coverages. Admittedly, that one was pretty obvious, but still.
And please don't go to the "preseason snaps" card... Anybody can read coverages in the preseason. It's usually base coverages, and most of the parts are stationary. The guy just needs some games under his belt.
-jj
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Masters said:
Question (insert Bevis voice if you like), why after the game and yesterday were Quinn, Edwards, and Reggie Rucker (on Reghi) saying the misread was on Edwards, in that he changed off the initial sight adjustment of man at the line - Ruckers take (hense BE ending up not where Quinn was expecting him to be)?I get that the sight adjustment should have been the cover 3, but if Quinn thinks it's man and makes that sight adjustment, shouldn't BE know what Quinn read (some sort of signal to BE) and continue on that expect route? Is this one of those cases where 2 wrongs made 1 really big wrong?
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to communicate like that. Edwards is pretty protective of his QB's and is pretty quick to take the blame for things. But I think he saw the free release inside. That's got to tip zone coverage. Or at least an over/under double team.
It'd be more likely that the two (Quinn and Edwards) made eye contact acknowledging a sight adjustment and Edwards knows Griffin is staking the outside zone and Quinn reads it as press man coverage. So in Quinn's head, he thinks he's adjusted to the fade and Edwards is adjusting to the seam route.
I just think Quinn misread it. But, you'd never get Edwards to say that.
-jj
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to communicate like that. Edwards is pretty protective of his QB's and is pretty quick to take the blame for things. But I think he saw the free release inside. That's got to tip zone coverage. Or at least an over/under double team.
It'd be more likely that the two (Quinn and Edwards) made eye contact acknowledging a sight adjustment and Edwards knows Griffin is staking the outside zone and Quinn reads it as press man coverage. So in Quinn's head, he thinks he's adjusted to the fade and Edwards is adjusting to the seam route.
I just think Quinn misread it. But, you'd never get Edwards to say that.
-jj
Makes sense, thanks!
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@shepwrite said:
I wondered about all the shotgun as opposed to three step drops and quick slants. I also wondered about the lack of screens.I agree -- he wasn't great, but he wasn't horrible (like, say, Cutler and Delhomme). Three drops, three other passes that could've been caught, two passes wiped out by penalty, and a pick on a bad route by Edwards. He had three good downfield throws -- a TD, a drop, and a penalty.
I'd give it a C-, myself.
Shep I am with you (and Mangini) on this. I saw good and bad from Quinn on the game. I also so some questionable play calling in the game. I would give Quinn a C for the game.
You'll also note the number of times the chart shows Quinn was pressured. There were far to many in that column.
Masters said:
Shep I am with you (and Mangini) on this. I saw good and bad from Quinn on the game. I also so some questionable play calling in the game. I would give Quinn a C for the game.You'll also note the number of times the chart shows Quinn was pressured. There were far to many in that column.
Wow....you guys are generous...that was a F guys.
That attempted pass where he pretty much whiffed and threw the ball backwards is enough by itself to warrant a F.
I see that on cold, wet days...not sunny 75 degree days.
Has the guy had a rap of having small hands??
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Masters said:
Shep I am with you (and Mangini) on this. I saw good and bad from Quinn on the game. I also so some questionable play calling in the game. I would give Quinn a C for the game.You'll also note the number of times the chart shows Quinn was pressured. There were far to many in that column.
Wow....you guys are generous...that was a F guys.
That attempted pass where he pretty much whiffed and threw the ball backwards is enough by itself to warrant a F.
I see that on cold, wet days...not sunny 75 degree days.
Has the guy had a rap of having small hands??
Wow....you guys are generous...that was a F guys.
That attempted pass where he pretty much whiffed and threw the ball backwards is enough by itself to warrant a F.
I see that on cold, wet days...not sunny 75 degree days.
Has the guy had a rap of having small hands??
Do you give Cutler an F for his game last against SD where he did the same thing?
It's one bad play (ok really bad). But Quinn isn't the first NFL QB I have seen do that, nor will he be the last. That stuff just happens when a QB starts on the run and then tries to pull back up to pass.
I am not going to grade a guys whole day on one play. If I did that, pretty much half the players in the league would get an F every other Sunday.
Though after Jason's explaination of the INT, I am going to lower the grade to a D
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Do you give Cutler an F for his game last against SD where he did the same thing?
Sure...why not.
Thing is I don't care what Cutler or any other QB for that matter does.
We aren't comparing Quinn to anybody else. At least I am not.
It is all about him.
That can't be hard to understand. All that matters is how our team and our players play. How they play compared to other players isn't germane.
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Do you give Cutler an F for his game last against SD where he did the same thing?
Sure...why not.
Thing is I don't care what Cutler or any other QB for that matter does.
We aren't comparing Quinn to anybody else. At least I am not.
It is all about him.
That can't be hard to understand. All that matters is how our team and our players play. How they play compared to other players isn't germane.
Sure...why not.
Thing is I don't care what Cutler or any other QB for that matter does.
We aren't comparing Quinn to anybody else. At least I am not.
It is all about him.
That can't be hard to understand. All that matters is how our team and our players play. How they play compared to other players isn't germane.
We are talking about grading a players performance for a game. Maybe you choose to grade Browns players on a different scale than other players. I don't. That was the point of bringing up Cutler. I am not going to pretend that play on Sunday was some monumental catastrophy that you never see from a legit NFL QB.
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