Sounds Like We Need A Refresher
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I'm concerned about improvement - will we see the team improve (and not just against bad teams).
4th quarter play is particularly what I'm interested in - do they play all 4th quarters, or just give up like they did under RAC?
I saw some of the 'give up' in the 4th on Sunday from the defense. The offense didn't give up, they just didn't look good once the Vikings started rushing everyone.
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@inspecta said:
But stan, shit, I knew he was an asshole, but I never thought he'd actually root against the starting QB. New lows, even for that guy, and that's saying something....Have a quote to support that Internet Tough guy?
Just because I didn't make cute fuzzy excuses for Sunday's shitty play, doesn't mean I rooted against any player on our team.
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I think it's kind of silly to keep throwing the Vikes pass defense ranking from LAST YEAR out there like it's the end all be all.
Look, when you rank first against the rush you have a damn good D period, and of course your passer rating is going higher than your run rating.
Just a dumb argument. I was at the game and I saw a very good defense from the Vikes top to bottom. Quinn needs to get better, but let's see what he does against some lesser defenses.
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Last year we started off the season in the following way and I'm ALL EARS about how much better Dumb Ass was at finding the HOT reads:
Dallas 28 Cleveland 10
Pittsburgh 10 Cleveland 6
Baltimore 28 Cleveland 10
There was another shabby loss not too much later
Indy 10 Cleveland 6 (1 TD came off DA's fumble so Peyton's odffense only score 3 points - warm & fuzzy?)
Geee, let's piss and moan about being AHEAD at halftime in this opener because the Dumb Ass fans have ticklish G-spots. Seriously folks, DA was in his THIRD consecutive season of starts when he went 3-6. If you're seeing regression in lieu of progress and growth - he's NOT the freakin answer.
I'm sitting here reading a BUNCH of fans that sound like they CANNOT wait to see Quinn fail. When your first round draft pick is a QB - it's pretty freakin important that he does NOT suck or this franchise is FUBAR. That being the case, don't take this SHIT out on those of us that FINALLY want to see what he has in his THIRD year. All Dumb Ass ever had to do with his 27 starts was prove he could learn from his experience. That means growth instead of regression. If DA was Kurt Warner - nobody would give the first crap WHO the other QB is on this team. Since he's not, we're right back to the rationale of WHY we needed to draft a 1st round QB.
I've said all along, it would have been MUCH better to find out if Quinn has it or not back in his 1st and 2nd seasons - rather than getting into season #3 and finding out we need to start all over again in 2010. That being the case, I'm rooting my ass off for Quinn to succeed. Why wouldn't I?
- Tom F.
If we traded DA, what on earth would Brady Nation be talking about today?
Well, Charlie Frye comparisons would work ...
If we traded DA, what on earth would Brady Nation be talking about today?
How about the starting QB for the Browns?
Oh, wait, that IS what we're talking about, and have been, for the last 2 (5, 10, 15, 20) years.
It is truly unbelievable how Lumberghian things are getting around here when it comes to the QB talk.
Let's remember: we are 1 game into the first full year of starting of our first-round draft pick QB.
To compare him unfavorably to ANY veteran starting QB after ONE GAME is -- well, I can't think of what else to call it -- Lumberghian it its stupidity.
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If we traded DA, what on earth would Brady Nation be talking about today?
How about the starting QB for the Browns?
Oh, wait, that IS what we're talking about, and have been, for the last 2 (5, 10, 15, 20) years.
It is truly unbelievable how Lumberghian things are getting around here when it comes to the QB talk.
Let's remember: we are 1 game into the first full year of starting of our first-round draft pick QB.
To compare him unfavorably to ANY veteran starting QB after ONE GAME is -- well, I can't think of what else to call it -- Lumberghian it its stupidity.
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One game this season, genius.
Thanks for the Lumberghian contribution, as always.
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Im about as big a bq fan as you will find and i was absolutely unimpressed by my guy and by the micro dunk and junk but there is a lot more to this thing then just bq having a horrendous day...it starts at manweenie and works its way through daboll then right on down to the team...theres plenty of blame for all on the offensive side and at least they are sharing the blame and will work through it...practice will be intense this week...
A new regime a new guy under center a new guy as the center and total crap play from the guys on the right side of the o-line,big slow WRs that cant get open,react, block or pick let alone catch so lets give it some time and watch what happens....
Im really sick of hearig how physical BE is from mangini when i always see him in games unable and or unwilling to block even a cb on running plays or hold off a safety so another guy who caught the ball can gain some extra yards...if we have to have these inconsistant big slugs as WRs we need to at least have slugs that can block like the vikings WRs...
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Good point, Gips. There's a lot of dink-and-dunking on the board this week with everyone focusing only on the most recent game without looking downfield at what was left on the field and what's to come.
The offensive gameplan was beyond weird on Sunday. All I can imagine is that they outsmarted themselves while trying to outsmart the Vikings D.
I'm hoping (and anticipating) a return to some basics this week, including play action, quick strikes and screens to set up the downfield attempts.
Basically, what Weis did with Quinn to tremendouse effect for two years at ND.
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I would add a couple of caveats to the Eli Manning example. First, the Giants were essentially pot committed to being patient with Manning; the trade they used to get him and his contract kind of required them to be patient with him--it's not like they could have dumped him after his early struggles. Second--and this is probably related to the first point--there was never a competition in New York; it was more of a coronation. Once Warner got benched, Manning was going to be the starter come hell or high water.
Third--and this gets overlooked by way too many people--Eli Manning just isn't a great quarterback. He's a good quarterback who benefits greatly from having a solid running game and terrific defense. He isn't Trent Dilfer, but he's not even close to Peyton or Tom Brady. Going into this season, he had a QB rating of 76.1. Peyton's is almost 95. Tom Brady's is almost 93. Derek Anderson's is 75. To say that the Browns should follow the Giants' example is essentially to say that they should get a great running game and defense and hope that Quinn doesn't screw it up. I think he can do better than that, and I would hope that we would all want him to.
Dennis
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I would add a couple of caveats to the Eli Manning example. First, the Giants were essentially pot committed to being patient with Manning; the trade they used to get him and his contract kind of required them to be patient with him--it's not like they could have dumped him after his early struggles. Second--and this is probably related to the first point--there was never a competition in New York; it was more of a coronation. Once Warner got benched, Manning was going to be the starter come hell or high water.
Third--and this gets overlooked by way too many people--Eli Manning just isn't a great quarterback. He's a good quarterback who benefits greatly from having a solid running game and terrific defense. He isn't Trent Dilfer, but he's not even close to Peyton or Tom Brady. Going into this season, he had a QB rating of 76.1. Peyton's is almost 95. Tom Brady's is almost 93. Derek Anderson's is 75. To say that the Browns should follow the Giants' example is essentially to say that they should get a great running game and defense and hope that Quinn doesn't screw it up. I think he can do better than that, and I would hope that we would all want him to.
Dennis
...Eli Manning just isn't a great quarterback. He's a good quarterback...
Dennis
True Dennis, but the last 5 games of his Super Bowl year were great - and that's when it makes the biggest diff. QB rating 105 and TD/INT ratio of 10/3, but I agree, it was with a heck of a supporting cast. Overall, he is not at the Peyton and T. Brady level. I would take him over Dilfer though, but that's splitting hairs.
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Look at the patience the NYG have shown with Eli Manning. Now they're perennial Super Bowl contenders.
I agree, but as i said in another thread...and we are a long way from this....if Quinn is looking bad 3-4-5 games in, I don't want the guy getting his 70% of the snaps, jacking his salary in to elite status.
I don't want to pay a schmoe elite money,,,either to keep or try to trade.
It makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
...Eli Manning just isn't a great quarterback. He's a good quarterback...
Dennis
True Dennis, but the last 5 games of his Super Bowl year were great - and that's when it makes the biggest diff. QB rating 105 and TD/INT ratio of 10/3, but I agree, it was with a heck of a supporting cast. Overall, he is not at the Peyton and T. Brady level. I would take him over Dilfer though, but that's splitting hairs.
True Dennis, but the last 5 games of his Super Bowl year were great - and that's when it makes the biggest diff. QB rating 105 and TD/INT ratio of 10/3, but I agree, it was with a heck of a supporting cast. Overall, he is not at the Peyton and T. Brady level. I would take him over Dilfer though, but that's splitting hairs.
Absolutely. Maybe call him a "game manager plus." He can't carry a team for a season, but he can string together some games that can put a team over the top. And you won't see him preside over an offense that goes, what, six games without a touchdown, either.
Dennis
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Look at the patience the NYG have shown with Eli Manning. Now they're perennial Super Bowl contenders.
I agree, but as i said in another thread...and we are a long way from this....if Quinn is looking bad 3-4-5 games in, I don't want the guy getting his 70% of the snaps, jacking his salary in to elite status.
I don't want to pay a schmoe elite money,,,either to keep or try to trade.
It makes no sense.
I agree, but as i said in another thread...and we are a long way from this....if Quinn is looking bad 3-4-5 games in,...
It makes no sense.
Broncos, Ravens, Bengals, Bills is a fair next pile of games. Not too hard, not too easy. He should be able to show improvement if he has it in him.
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I agree, but as i said in another thread...and we are a long way from this....if Quinn is looking bad 3-4-5 games in,...
It makes no sense.
Broncos, Ravens, Bengals, Bills is a fair next pile of games. Not too hard, not too easy. He should be able to show improvement if he has it in him.
Broncos, Ravens, Bengals, Bills is a fair next pile of games. Not too hard, not too easy. He should be able to show improvement if he has it in him.
Those are my feelings. By then it will be much easier to either allow the incentives to kick in or put him on the shelf for the rest of the season.
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So, what would we like to see to feel good about his progression besides a gut reaction he's leading and improving?
I'd like to see one less turnover, one more TD, and 3-4 more downfield passes - depending how those all come together.
However, it'll probably be more of a gut feeling. Like last night for Tom Brady, you could see him focus-in and rise to the occasion. A thing of beauty. It seemed like everyone knew he was going to get the job done.
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