Woods & Watson
-
Great point KD!
If we had a FO that was good at drafting, fixing the glaring and OBVIOUS holes in our defense wouldn't feel like watching the Mission Impossible sequel here. Every time Seattle has frequented playoffs (and appeared in 2 Super Bowls) they did it via the draft, which made for a really freakin healthy salary cap (especially when you factor in the rookie salary cap helping that). Then they could use free agency the way it should be used as a supplement rather than leaning on it.
While I would also like to see even better results in the draft, it is not all doom and gloom.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up. Especially if we fix the IDL, you do not need a top 10 Edge opposite Myles. There is value in 'good enough.' Adding a veteran for the rotation could be good. Would Larry-O be interested in coming back?
Perrion Winfrey showed flashes of huge upside last season. Very interested to see how he develops. But we need to add two new pieces, I think. As I mentioned in the draft topic, the DT FA is very tight. Taven Bryan is projected to command double what he makes now, and he is not exactly a world beater. Dalvin Tomlinson looks to be the only upgrade we could possibly afford. We are going to have to use one of our higher picks here. Maybe a later round development player as well.
Then we have Emerson and Bell. We certainly have some promising picks from recent years to work with.
While I would also like to see even better results in the draft, it is not all doom and gloom.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up. Especially if we fix the IDL, you do not need a top 10 Edge opposite Myles. There is value in 'good enough.' Adding a veteran for the rotation could be good. Would Larry-O be interested in coming back?
Perrion Winfrey showed flashes of huge upside last season. Very interested to see how he develops. But we need to add two new pieces, I think. As I mentioned in the draft topic, the DT FA is very tight. Taven Bryan is projected to command double what he makes now, and he is not exactly a world beater. Dalvin Tomlinson looks to be the only upgrade we could possibly afford. We are going to have to use one of our higher picks here. Maybe a later round development player as well.
Then we have Emerson and Bell. We certainly have some promising picks from recent years to work with.
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Great point KD!
If we had a FO that was good at drafting, fixing the glaring and OBVIOUS holes in our defense wouldn't feel like watching the Mission Impossible sequel here. Every time Seattle has frequented playoffs (and appeared in 2 Super Bowls) they did it via the draft, which made for a really freakin healthy salary cap (especially when you factor in the rookie salary cap helping that). Then they could use free agency the way it should be used as a supplement rather than leaning on it.
While I would also like to see even better results in the draft, it is not all doom and gloom.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up. Especially if we fix the IDL, you do not need a top 10 Edge opposite Myles. There is value in 'good enough.' Adding a veteran for the rotation could be good. Would Larry-O be interested in coming back?
Perrion Winfrey showed flashes of huge upside last season. Very interested to see how he develops. But we need to add two new pieces, I think. As I mentioned in the draft topic, the DT FA is very tight. Taven Bryan is projected to command double what he makes now, and he is not exactly a world beater. Dalvin Tomlinson looks to be the only upgrade we could possibly afford. We are going to have to use one of our higher picks here. Maybe a later round development player as well.
Then we have Emerson and Bell. We certainly have some promising picks from recent years to work with.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up.
Isiah Thomas would be a better candidate.
-
-
While I would also like to see even better results in the draft, it is not all doom and gloom.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up. Especially if we fix the IDL, you do not need a top 10 Edge opposite Myles. There is value in 'good enough.' Adding a veteran for the rotation could be good. Would Larry-O be interested in coming back?
Perrion Winfrey showed flashes of huge upside last season. Very interested to see how he develops. But we need to add two new pieces, I think. As I mentioned in the draft topic, the DT FA is very tight. Taven Bryan is projected to command double what he makes now, and he is not exactly a world beater. Dalvin Tomlinson looks to be the only upgrade we could possibly afford. We are going to have to use one of our higher picks here. Maybe a later round development player as well.
Then we have Emerson and Bell. We certainly have some promising picks from recent years to work with.
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
Schwartz was not employed in those drafts. From what I have heard, he is a 'D-line whisperer.' As Tia has said before, he is practically certain to be involved in the draft this year.
Isiah Thomas would be a better candidate.
Happy to concede to your assessment. My point was slightly different though: Namely that the picks of recent years haven't been all bad, and a rotation can be built with them and value for money additions.
-
Alex Wright could be ready to step up.
Isiah Thomas would be a better candidate.
-
-
Just ask musicians around town about me... Then go hide under a rock... Idiot..
i just flew back from ohio no one has heard of you except one guy said he thought you worked at hortons
-
-
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
Schwartz was not employed in those drafts. From what I have heard, he is a 'D-line whisperer.' As Tia has said before, he is practically certain to be involved in the draft this year.
Isiah Thomas would be a better candidate.
Happy to concede to your assessment. My point was slightly different though: Namely that the picks of recent years haven't been all bad, and a rotation can be built with them and value for money additions.
Schwartz was not employed in those drafts. From what I have heard, he is a 'D-line whisperer.' As Tia has said before, he is practically certain to be involved in the draft this year.
Thanks KD! Schwartz will be a blessing for this defense. His experience volume should get a respectful ear or 2 from Berry for the valuable input Berry desperately needs about the front line of our D. If Schwartz gets sentenced to the current IDL, I can assure you he isn't going to be whispering at them. There should be some very good IDL prospects available when the Browns make their 1st pick in round 2.
-
-
-
When you post on a message board, you're essentially talking to everyone thus you're fair game. Use the PM feature if you prefer not to have anyone to chime in.
oh wow you sure told me Bet you were to busy on national hate day along with nickers and die hard to say something earlier to me
-
-
-
While I would also like to see even better results in the draft, it is not all doom and gloom.
Alex Wright could be ready to step up. Especially if we fix the IDL, you do not need a top 10 Edge opposite Myles. There is value in 'good enough.' Adding a veteran for the rotation could be good. Would Larry-O be interested in coming back?
Perrion Winfrey showed flashes of huge upside last season. Very interested to see how he develops. But we need to add two new pieces, I think. As I mentioned in the draft topic, the DT FA is very tight. Taven Bryan is projected to command double what he makes now, and he is not exactly a world beater. Dalvin Tomlinson looks to be the only upgrade we could possibly afford. We are going to have to use one of our higher picks here. Maybe a later round development player as well.
Then we have Emerson and Bell. We certainly have some promising picks from recent years to work with.
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
nailed it !
It's hard to overlook, how bad it's gotten/rotten under Berry's dime
EDGE
miss print position below.. Below our Berry's yearly Defensive Tackle decreasing age/value/talent of the position
but we saved a few Depo bucks
... Seems to me...
Haslam may have strapped AB with a boat sinking
anchor named money-ball Depo
Come on Jimmy Schwartz ! Cut the rope on Haslam/Depo's anchor ?
-
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
nailed it !
It's hard to overlook, how bad it's gotten/rotten under Berry's dime
EDGE
miss print position below.. Below our Berry's yearly Defensive Tackle decreasing age/value/talent of the position
but we saved a few Depo bucks
... Seems to me...
Haslam may have strapped AB with a boat sinking
anchor named money-ball Depo
Come on Jimmy Schwartz ! Cut the rope on Haslam/Depo's anchor ?
nailed it !
It's hard to overlook, how bad it's gotten/rotten under Berry's dime
EDGE
miss print position below.. Below our Berry's yearly Defensive Tackle decreasing age/value/talent of the position
but we saved a few Depo bucks
... Seems to me...
Haslam may have strapped AB with a boat sinking
anchor named money-ball Depo
Come on Jimmy Schwartz ! Cut the rope on Haslam/Depo's anchor ?
Great research Gumbs - thanks for sharing!
When the FO turned the DT position into their Savings and Loan strategy immediately after the 2020 season - the decreasing winning percentages accompanying that looked like more than just a coincidence. In 2020, the Browns were 11-5 and won their 1st playoff game since the Browns re-entered the league. One year later, they went 9-8 before going 7-10 in 2022. You get what you pay for. When you know what you're doing - that can be a good thing. When you don't? You end up with 4 LBers behind those guys on IR aside from watching our defense stink it up against the run.
I'm thankful you, KD and others keep reminding me that Schwartz's success and extensive experience might be able to penetrate some FO ego when looking at where help is needed and breaking down film of their prospects.
-
If there's 1 salary that could be tweaked to accommodate this - it would be Watson's.
While I like the idea of getting him here... I think fixing the Defense is paramount... I still want to see a healthy Jakeem Grant in this offense and see how much David Bell and Michael Wood develop. That would go a long way in helping out the O... But so far.. I'm not one bit thrilled with Watson... He looks whoefully pedestrian... And I don't want to hear he's been sitting on his ass for 2-3 years whatev's... If your good.. Your good and you shouldn't need 2 years to get your shit together.. There have been times I've taken months away from playing guitar to come back with fresh ideas.. it only takes me a couple days to get my groove and my chops back... The excuses are lame... I want to focus on 2 things in this draft/FA period.. OL and DL and maybe LB'er...
While I like the idea of getting him here... I think fixing the Defense is paramount... I still want to see a healthy Jakeem Grant in this offense and see how much David Bell and Michael Wood develop. That would go a long way in helping out the O... But so far.. I'm not one bit thrilled with Watson... He looks whoefully pedestrian... And I don't want to hear he's been sitting on his ass for 2-3 years whatev's... If your good.. Your good and you shouldn't need 2 years to get your shit together.. There have been times I've taken months away from playing guitar to come back with fresh ideas.. it only takes me a couple days to get my groove and my chops back... The excuses are lame... I want to focus on 2 things in this draft/FA period.. OL and DL and maybe LB'er...
I agree.
My feeling is we will be better served on spending what FA money we have on a defensive player or two over a receiver. I think we have a couple of young receivers in Bell and Woods who could fill the void. I also think there are more receivers available in the draft over D line players.
I see a few receivers we could get in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that could step in and start, or at minimum play a big role in the O. Big role meaning catching maybe 30-50 balls this year.
Another component to watch is with Musgrave hired, we will probably lean a bit towards a WCO offense with controlled passing, which should help a guy like Bell. I think it also point to some changes at runningback. Somebody in that backfield is going to catch 50 passes(give or take), Chubb might be that guy, but I suspect it is going to be somebody else.
-
When you post on a message board, you're essentially talking to everyone thus you're fair game. Use the PM feature if you prefer not to have anyone to chime in.
oh wow you sure told me Bet you were to busy on national hate day along with nickers and die hard to say something earlier to me
-
I will gladly join you in this line of thinking KD if the FO finally upgrades the IDL in their 4th opportunity to do so. Right now we're very stuck on pause with "if" = "still has not."
Schwartz was not employed in those drafts. From what I have heard, he is a 'D-line whisperer.' As Tia has said before, he is practically certain to be involved in the draft this year.
Isiah Thomas would be a better candidate.
Happy to concede to your assessment. My point was slightly different though: Namely that the picks of recent years haven't been all bad, and a rotation can be built with them and value for money additions.
Schwartz was not employed in those drafts. From what I have heard, he is a 'D-line whisperer.' As Tia has said before, he is practically certain to be involved in the draft this year.
Happy to concede to your assessment. My point was slightly different though: Namely that the picks of recent years haven't been all bad, and a rotation can be built with them and value for money additions.
I appreciate that, although it isn't so much a matter of concession really. I get where you're going and yes, rotation can be built on value. The key is not buying cheap for the sake of buying cheap, but to buy low where you think someone is underrated. I'd argue this front office has gone both the former and latter the last couple seasons on the defensive front 7 with oddly contrasting results.
Alex Wright wasn't a "good" pick by any stretch. Which brings up a further concern I'll address below...
But is that saying much?
Yes and no. It says this front office isn't afraid to make multiple positions picks with mid to late round resources to address depth concerns. But it does tell me that they might put a bit too much emphasis on RAS at times and overdraft players ahead of where they would project both from tape and consensus. Alex Wright is a prime example. He's a monster athlete and little else who was taken just outside the top 75 picks. He was then proceeded to be outplayed by a late 7th round pick in Isiah Thomas who was much more fundamentally sound edge.
Tommy Togiai is a minor example as well. His bench was impressive. Not much else. I watched every game of his, being the Buckeye I am, and he was taken at least a full round too high. Over-valuation is a real problem.
Meanwhile Travis Jones was taken just several picks before. In my mind I would hope that Berry and Co. Wouldn't have been so enamored with Wright that they would have ignored potentially sacrificing a future late round pick in order to move up and address starting needs at IDL before depth elsewhere. Yes, yes I know about BPA. But if the argument was Wright > Jones as BPA, then the early returns indicate how we grade and prioritize positions and players is ..... Off.
Our best value picks on the edge have been our latest round(IT) our worst have been our earliest (Wright). Our best IDL pick has been our latest round (Perrion) while our worst has been our highest taken (Elliot). Again, I circle back to how the Browns grade, project then value these players.
-
I believe there was a plan but a series of unfortunate happenings derailed anything that could happen.
let’s see if…
If Myles wasn’t a knucklehead. If Clowney wasn’t a lazy unmotivated turd. If Perrion wasn’t immature. If we kicked Myles inside for a series or two.I believe we started to hear Wrights name called a little more at the end of the season. Thomas is a late round lottery pick and Bryan had his flaws.
We drafted poorly with Tommy and Elliot but Neither were Day 1 or second round picks…you all want to invest in the position there…I get it. At what expense do we take away from other positions? 2020 We needed a Tackle, 2021 we needed a Corner (our other corner was never healthy), we needed a playmaker like JOK.
DE, DT, DT, DE definitely not our strongest unit but Not for lack of investment. We had some missed here. It Looks like we were hoping for monster years and scheme creativity with guys like Myles and Clowney and then rotational pieces filling in on a limited basis at other spots.
You can’t have it all…salary cap restricts it…some guys don’t want to come to a Cleveland…some other positions warrant attention as well. Buffalo went 13-3 with holes all over their secondary. The Giants made the playoffs with a very suspect WR core, the 49ers made the NFC championship Championship game with a 7th round QB. The bengals made due with a patchwork Oline, can I stop?
Why not Tariq Woolen in 5th instead of Martin Emmerson in the 3rd. We could have added another piece earlier in a position group that needed it.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login