2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects
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I agree on Bell. I haven't given up on him. He has what too many of our receives haven't had in the past...hands.
He may not be able to create separation with speed, but I think in quick hitting routes he could be tremendous. I don't think the numbers you post are out of reach. It could even be higher if Watson decides to throw his way.
I know we signed Musgrave, and he is a WCO guy. I am wondering if we hired him as Sr, asst to bring a little of that look to the O.
As for DJ...I love the kid. I think the problem he faces here is he is too much like Chubb and plays a similar role. I am not as sold as you on his receiving prowess. I am not even sure if Ford brings that....maybe he does?? That is why I could see us drafting a back..one who could catch 70 balls a year if used.
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Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.
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I agree on Bell. I haven't given up on him. He has what too many of our receives haven't had in the past...hands.
He may not be able to create separation with speed, but I think in quick hitting routes he could be tremendous. I don't think the numbers you post are out of reach. It could even be higher if Watson decides to throw his way.
I know we signed Musgrave, and he is a WCO guy. I am wondering if we hired him as Sr, asst to bring a little of that look to the O.
As for DJ...I love the kid. I think the problem he faces here is he is too much like Chubb and plays a similar role. I am not as sold as you on his receiving prowess. I am not even sure if Ford brings that....maybe he does?? That is why I could see us drafting a back..one who could catch 70 balls a year if used.
I agree on Bell. I haven't given up on him. He has what too many of our receives haven't had in the past...hands.
He may not be able to create separation with speed, but I think in quick hitting routes he could be tremendous. I don't think the numbers you post are out of reach. It could even be higher if Watson decides to throw his way.
I know we signed Musgrave, and he is a WCO guy. I am wondering if we hired him as Sr, asst to bring a little of that look to the O.
As for DJ...I love the kid. I think the problem he faces here is he is too much like Chubb and plays a similar role. I am not as sold as you on his receiving prowess. I am not even sure if Ford brings that....maybe he does?? That is why I could see us drafting a back..one who could catch 70 balls a year if used.
- Re: 'WCO'. The big advent of those timing offenses is generally the 3 and 5 step drop game (well, traditionally speaking) working the shallow, intermediate and horizontal passing stretch. I'm vocal in my belief that Stefanski is deficient in these designs from time to time. Granted, in his offense the shots are more vertical in nature, and I get that. But as we transition to a gun, vertical zone based team, he's going to need someone like Musgrave to help really improve the route combinations that work to build YAC and break man coverage without having to go downfield. This past seasons Chiefs squad is a good example. So if Stef was on board and proactive in bringing Musgrave in, it speaks to his self awareness and assessment of the direction the offense needs to take AND improve on.
As for DJ, I'm not saying the kid is going to line up and run HBC like he's Run CmC is something. But I do believe everything we throw at Chubb and Hunt in the screen game he is more than capable of also doing himself, that's all.
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DL/LB day 1, overall's got my attention ?
Nolan Smith/Owen Pappoe/Byron Young(Tenn.)/Dorian Williams/A.Adebawore/Derick Hall/D. Overshown/Van Ness/Jack Campbell/Bryan Bresee/Keeanu Benton
What the heck do teams do with a freak like Calijah Kancey.. Stud got to 6'1 281 lbs. but is built to play a 3-4 NFL edge.. C. Kancy ain't getting to pick 32.. Teams can forget pick 40 anything..
Happy Friday gents ! Enjoy Day 2
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Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
I wouldn't even count out trading a multi rounded (4th/5th) Browns pick..to trade for a player with some upside (did with rams to get Troy Hill)
A possible positions chart we may target.. Deaton might be that backup C or G ?
way to early, and
GRANT SR., JAKEEM U/Chi has a accepted a new deal ENJOY your Combine viewing ! ? starts today 3:00 pm
Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked from the best player on down no matter the position. That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.
You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value. As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example. If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can make the best decision possible. If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position. If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.
On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.
Whew...I hope that makes some sense. That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't make any sense.
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Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
I wouldn't even count out trading a multi rounded (4th/5th) Browns pick..to trade for a player with some upside (did with rams to get Troy Hill)
A possible positions chart we may target.. Deaton might be that backup C or G ?
way to early, and
GRANT SR., JAKEEM U/Chi has a accepted a new deal ENJOY your Combine viewing ! ? starts today 3:00 pm
Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked from the best player on down no matter the position. That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.
You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value. As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example. If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can make the best decision possible. If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position. If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.
On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.
Whew...I hope that makes some sense. That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't seem to make any sense.
-
Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
I wouldn't even count out trading a multi rounded (4th/5th) Browns pick..to trade for a player with some upside (did with rams to get Troy Hill)
A possible positions chart we may target.. Deaton might be that backup C or G ?
way to early, and
GRANT SR., JAKEEM U/Chi has a accepted a new deal ENJOY your Combine viewing ! ? starts today 3:00 pm
Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)
Green - Ideal Fit
Yellow - Okay Fit
Red - Unlikely Fit
Grey - No Age Data Available
That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked from the best player on down no matter the position. That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.
You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value. As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example. If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can make the best decision possible. If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position. If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.
On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.
Whew...I hope that makes some sense. That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't seem to make any sense.
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I get it Peen.. I'd like to talk to the guy in charge of
Of paying a young street FA minimum// vs watching drafted receivers drop balls...
carry on to day 2.. The Tracker https://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker/live-results/40-yard-dash/all-positions/all-colleges/
DL/LB/DB's*.. 40's & 3 cones that still include some Day 1's in top 11.. 4.45's is still moving..Cone's under 7.11's are some loose/not stiff movers either..
Let's see who can out track some DB's, in this wide open WR class ? TE's class looks to have some nice depth options too
Enjoy!
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Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.
Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.
Hell of an athlete. Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.
A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game. And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value. Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.
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Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need.
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Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.
Hell of an athlete. Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.
A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game. And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value. Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.
Hell of an athlete. Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.
A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game. And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value. Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.
I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.
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Hell of an athlete. Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.
A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game. And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value. Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.
I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.
I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.
It's not preconceived or "mythical".
At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR. Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3. The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level. Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.
Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film. But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables. They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
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I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.
It's not preconceived or "mythical".
At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR. Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3. The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level. Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.
Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film. But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables. They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
Oh dog, please not that guy again.
Mingo had a long career as a backup/depth guy/special teams player, and seemed to be a good guy so I'll give him that, but that was not a good pick from the Browns. Wasn't a great draft if I recall either.
Pete Smith, who somehow now writes for SI, was on the message board I was on before this one. That dude looooooooooved Mingo, and no matter how absolutely mediocre he was for the Browns, would have died on the proverbial hill for him. When someone posts a Pete Smith article on here, I chuckle and think about his never-ending love for Bakevious. ?
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Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need.
Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need.
"A concern of Scott’s game is his drops. According to Pro Football Focus, Scott had a drop rate of 11.3%"
As much as I love the story of a local kid, that's damn near going to scratch him immediately off my list. Seen too many receivers with questionable hands come through. And my cut-off is about that 9% mark, volume dependent.
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Speaking of Browns LBs, it will be interesting to see what they do with the Mike position.
Walker coming back? Takitaki re-signed?
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Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need.
"A concern of Scott’s game is his drops. According to Pro Football Focus, Scott had a drop rate of 11.3%"
As much as I love the story of a local kid, that's damn near going to scratch him immediately off my list. Seen too many receivers with questionable hands come through. And my cut-off is about that 9% mark, volume dependent.
"A concern of Scott’s game is his drops. According to Pro Football Focus, Scott had a drop rate of 11.3%"
As much as I love the story of a local kid, that's damn near going to scratch him immediately off my list. Seen too many receivers with questionable hands come through. And my cut-off is about that 9% mark, volume dependent.
I thought that was the WR with the insane drop rate, but when I looked him up a scouting report didn't mention it (what?) so I thought perhaps it was another local kid I was mixing him up with.
I still like the Penn State kid, though.
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I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.
It's not preconceived or "mythical".
At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR. Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3. The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level. Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.
Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film. But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables. They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
It's not preconceived or "mythical".
At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR. Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3. The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level. Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.
Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film. But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables. They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.?
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It's not preconceived or "mythical".
At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR. Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3. The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level. Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.
Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film. But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables. They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.
Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo. Minus the wingspan.
Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.?
Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.?
That still stings.
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- This one really caught my eye, from Yahoo Sports March 4.
INDIANAPOLIS — As soon as the height and weight digits trickled down Saturday morning for Alabama quarterback Bryce Young, the predictable avalanche of comparison rumbled in behind it.
Standing 5-feet-10 and 1/8th of an inch tall. Weighing in at 204 pounds. Cue the social media jukebox and set it for replay ...
Just like Kyler Murray, who registered the exact same height at the NFL combine in 2019 and came in only three pounds heavier.
A lazy comparison ?
“Absolutely,” an NFC West talent evaluator told Yahoo Sports.
“That was what we expected,” chimed in another evaluator, who spent significant time canvassing both Young and Murray. “We knew [the similarities] even if fans didn’t.”
In a world of NFL Draft study that is seemingly always seeking readily obvious road maps for comparison, Alabama’s Young has long seemed destined to fall into the 2019 “Murray conundrum” — a debate that weighs elite level quarterback talent against the risk of sub-optimal size. It was the burden shouldered by Murray four years ago when the Arizona Cardinals were zeroing in on the former Oklahoma quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick, focusing a portion of their evaluation by mapping him against stature-deficient quarterbacks like now-retired QB Drew Brees and Denver Broncos QB Russell Wilson. ----- CONTINUED----->
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-----> The end of that road featured Murray being deemed worth the risk of not featuring ideal quarterback size, resulting in his selection with the first pick. Yes, he wasn’t in the league’s quarterback wheelhouse that falls somewhere around 6-foot-4 and 225 pounds. But Murray’s overall skill set was special enough that the Cardinals rolled the dice on him being one of the history-defying outliers.
Now we’re four seasons and a handful of injuries later, and the dice-roll on Murray has been met with mixed reviews. Undoubtedly one of the league’s most dynamic playmakers when he’s performing at his peak, the questions dogging Murray now have been about his leadership and inability to play through seasons without some kind of impactful injury. Despite those continued questions, he landed a 5-year $230.5 million contract extension, cementing his stature as a player who defines the “outlying” class of quarterbacks. And with that, he joins the class of Brees and Wilson when it comes to pressing Bryce Young’s evaluation against historic predecessors.But as was the case comparing Murray against Brees and Wilson in 2019, evaluators are rolling their eyes at those who are drawing some kind of direct line between Young and Murray.
“Size is the only thing they have in common,” the NFC West evaluator said.
That opinion wasn’t an anomaly, either. Seven evaluators from different teams all expressed some version of the same conclusion: Other than height and weight, Murray and Young have dramatic differences in their game and skill level — including some that favor Murray and others that favor Young. And even when it comes to that size comparison, predicting a similar injury path is tricky at best, because teams don’t view them as being built to handle some of the same rigors, either.
“Height and weight isn’t even an accurate [predictor] if you’re debating how you feel about the potential for an injury,” an NFC general manager said. “Drew [Brees] and Russell [Wilson] next to each other — not to knock Drew, but Russell looks like he can take some hits. Drew looks like he’s in competitive cycling. Now put those two next to Cam Newton in a draft. S***, Cam looked like he could have been a defensive end. And everyone would have been wrong about who was going to be durable between those three. Partly because of how each guy played the position. We can’t ignore that. But that’s going to be a similar thing with Bryce Young and Kyler Murray, too.”
Asked to parse out the differences between Young and Murray if they really aren’t similar players beyond their size, there was a consensus on almost every point. Murray was evaluated as a more elite athlete — with a better throwing arm, better athleticism and a more evasive running style. He also is a player who teams expect believe represented an accurate weight when he came in at 207 pounds in 2019.
“Kyler is more physically gifted across the board,” one AFC general manager said. “Bryce is the more skilled passer and mature person and professional. I think Bryce will be better when he is in the field but I question whether he will hold up from a durability standpoint without elite physical traits to escape. I would bet he didn’t play [at Alabama] at 204. I think he’ll fill in as he gets older later in his career.” ----> continued--->
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