Manning vs Manning vs Quinn
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I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not.
Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off!
I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask?
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I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not.
Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off!
I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask?
I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not.
Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off!
I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask?
That is a good way of putting it. I would say that Quinn has to be viewed somewhere around the way DA was viewed near the end of the 2007 season and the first few games of the 2008 season. Basically Quinn's start Sunday equals DA's start #8 in 2007, as far as the ground zero for the "second year he has to show you something" idea. Quinn isn't equal to a rookie QB in the NFL, but closer to being a guy who had a rookie year playing at this point, from a judging point imo.
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Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
This is one really weird or stupid thread....
4 games, 56.3 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start
4 games, 45.8 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start
4 games, 63.8 rating = needs a long leash to get career off to a start
4 games, 78.8 rating = needs a tight leash.
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Z,
I'm not sure why you see such upside in a guy with nearly 30 NFL starts who shows the same, chronic problems that have plagued him since college.
Its seems far more likely that the limitations create a capped ceiling versus a high one.
DA simply has to excel as a pocket QB. He is a handicap in terms of his athleticism. He doesn't move well either in or out of the pocket.
So, as a pocket passer he must be accurate and must make good decisions. These are both areas where we've seen little growth.
Regardless of where Quinn's ceiling ends up, I'm not one that thinks further investment in DA is a high probability bet. I'm confused why you would.
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I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not.
Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off!
I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask?
I remember Bill Parcels saying that Tom Landry once told him that in a QB's first year you give him the benefit of the doubt. The second year he has to show you something. And in the third year you know whether or not you need to get a new QB. It is Quinn's third year, but first year starting. I think he has to show us something...an upward arc of progress. The problem I had with DA was his regression. He did not get any better with time which leads me to believe he will never get to the level that this team needs. I could be wrong...or not.
Either way, we need to see if Quinn can progress this season. If his play doesn't improve dramatically (compared to last Sunday) by the end of the season, we are going to have to start looking at other alternatives at QB. I hope that is not the case simply because I do not want to start the process over again. I am not a Notre Dame fan. I have no loyalty to a QB whether they are from OH or from the Pacific Northwest. I only care that they produce...and that they beat the goddam Steelers for once. The Bills just lost their 12th straight to the Patriots last night (although they screwed themselves...but I digress). I don't want our beloved Browns to join them in that statistic...losing for the 12th straight time to the steelers...just typing that pisses me off!
I want to watch the Browns and have fun watching...like the first half against the Vikings. Is this too much to ask?
I am with ya there....watching the Browns is almost like being a cutter,one of those disturbed people who cut themselves, it always seems to be painful.I am so glad I play fantasy football so some of my homerism gets diluted by having my own teams to think about. I love the Browns but sometimes I'd rather go fishing than watch them lose.
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DA could get it together, it is possible. The guy can certainly throw the ball.
I just don't have time to wait on him. I think he is going to be one of those guys that finally starts figuring out the game after a few more years in the league.
It's not going to happen any time soon.
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@jadbf said:
Quinn? well there's historical basis to show he COULD get better, will he? Who knows? Does he need to show he is moving in that direction very soon? Yes...The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
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@jadbf said:
Quinn? well there's historical basis to show he COULD get better, will he? Who knows? Does he need to show he is moving in that direction very soon? Yes...The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn.
On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off.
He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100.
On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand.
Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel.
He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance.
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The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn.
On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off.
He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100.
On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand.
Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel.
He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance.
BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn.
On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off.
He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100.
On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand.
Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel.
He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance.
Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there.
Yikes
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BQ has a TD called back on a throw where haters are trying to say wasn't even a good throw. Then, they go WildDawg and don't score. TD to Quinn.
On the pick it was straight miscommunication. It is arguable who made the inappropriate read, although Braylons took credit for it. Wipe the pick off.
He very easily could have had a 22-36 game with 2 TD's, 250yds and no picks. Granted, the late TD was dressing but it was hugely needed to get the monkey off their backs. Those aren't that bad of stats, and maybe Braylons catches the one go route if he runs the right route. What that translates out ot in QBR I don't know, but probably well above 100.
On the Garo, DA never gets the opportunity to do something that goofy because he would have been sacked or chucked up a possible pick beforehand.
Point being, Quinn did not play well and seemed reluctant to take more shots, but he was also feeling quite a bit of pressure, going up against a top defense, playing his first home start after being named full time starter and with a whole new staff and tons of different personnel.
He was not as bad as he is being made out to be. Give the kid a chance.
Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there.
Yikes
Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there.
Yikes
Jeezus cheeayriste, get the gay off your mind. You overreact to everything, that's the fooking gay part.
"Oh my God, these two QB's are the worst I've ever seen" after two minutes at camp.
"Oh my god, Queen is the worst starting QB I have ever seen" after one half against Vikes.
You are the queer drama queen pal.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
Zombo said:
We've all seen things in Quinn we like, and we'd all like to see him find greatness with the Browns. The part where I differ with most, is that I have a lot of respect for Derek Anderson whereas the majority of fans have given up on him. I see a guy with actually a higher potential upside than Quinn, I see a guy that had no chance to suceed in 2008, I see a guy that is 25 with some nice starting experience and a gun ... so I'm not going to let Quinn flop around like a newborn baby his third year in the league while this guy is on the bench.I don't expect Quinn to continue playing poorly for three weeks .. but if he does, I think Mangini pulls him and tries to salvage the season with Anderson. That's just how I feel.
I know some want to keep thinking of Quinn as a shiney new christmas present with all the potential in the world who just needs nurtured and lots of time ... but right now I think of him as a guy holding the team back as long as he plays like he did Sunday. Anderson simply is not as bad, or a worthless cause, like most seem to think. He's a good QB who Mangini will have no problem turning to early in the season if the Keystone Kop dink and dunk show continues much longer.
Zombo
While this post is a little less of the rant from yestyerday i can see why you feel like you do.
The point remains that whether BQ or DA is the starter there are alot of other holes on this team which will hamper their development.
I don't see this team being a 10 game winner this year with either QB, that being said its still only week 1. I truly think it will be blatantly obvious whether or not BQ has 'it'. If he doesn't you know exactl;y what you have in DA. Giving you the option to focus on the other glaring shortcomings of the team. I don't feel we need to draft a qb next year, would rather see them continue the foundation first.
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@jadbf said:
I for one am not going to get into the "if only"'s, because you could do that for almost everyone of DA's games too.I believe we got beat by a superior team. And it wasn't as bad as some want to make it look. But it has to get better before the end of this season, or I'll be real concerned.
and again. I've stated before. I don't necessarily believe Quinn has to have a season like DA did in 2007 to be consider as improving and progressing. And wins are not the only measuring stick. I'd say that last years Denver game was an example of a good game by Quinn.
Every football game turns on a few plays for sure. Braylon's play was part of football, but the false starts can be easily corrected and Quinn should become more comfortable and make better reads.
I'm definitely not saying "if, if, if, therefore Quinn is great and the Browns should have won". Just saying there's hope for quick corrections. The next game will bring new problems, as does every football game, and the Browns have to overcome them to get wins. If he has another fluke fumble and we have a bunch of pre-snap motion penalties again, well then that's crap.
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Wow ... ubber gay. Sticky gay, limp wrist, apologetic post right there.
Yikes
Jeezus cheeayriste, get the gay off your mind. You overreact to everything, that's the fooking gay part.
"Oh my God, these two QB's are the worst I've ever seen" after two minutes at camp.
"Oh my god, Queen is the worst starting QB I have ever seen" after one half against Vikes.
You are the queer drama queen pal.
Jeezus cheeayriste, get the gay off your mind. You overreact to everything, that's the fooking gay part.
I wish I could, but I haven't seen this many homosexual posters on a Browns forum since 1998-99 while discussing Tim Couch and his Kentucky popgun.
Do you really feel good about that excuse filled post?
Crosss the tee, dot the i, carry the one, and he was over 100 QB rating. Subtract three scores from the Vikings and we Won!
Good God, wash your hands after that.
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@jadbf said:
And the oscar goes to......Why Erty of course.
Think I may start working on my Satn imitations, da ich stuff be gettin old or sumtin............
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AdaM said:
Stan, who's that lobster in your avatar?What you can't see, just out of the picture, is that the girl on my immediate left had a hold of my cock so hard that I thought I was gonna lose consciousness.
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@jadbf said:
Quinn? well there's historical basis to show he COULD get better, will he? Who knows? Does he need to show he is moving in that direction very soon? Yes...The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
don't forget the ball magically fumbling out of his grasp in the 4th resulting in that fumble. that was some ridiculous folly material there, and i sincerely HOPE it was just jitters.
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The good news about the Viking game is it felt more like jitters to me more than anything else. At this point, it didn't seem like there were fatal and irreversible flaws. Take away the misread on the INT, the false starts by the new offense, and Braylon's TD catch coming from out of bounds and we'd be talking about how Quinn had a solid game with a QB rating in the 100's. These are things that can be improved upon easily and quickly.
don't forget the ball magically fumbling out of his grasp in the 4th resulting in that fumble. that was some ridiculous folly material there, and i sincerely HOPE it was just jitters.
don't forget the ball magically fumbling out of his grasp in the 4th resulting in that fumble. that was some ridiculous folly material there, and i sincerely HOPE it was just jitters.
It is a silly folly. But we saw that same folly last year from Jay Cutler against SD, and numerous time by other legit QBs. Jitters or no jitters, those things happen to QBs at any level. It happened to be Quinn that it happened to last Sunday.
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just wanted to include it since i hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere and it resulted in a change of possession=big deal.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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