Brady Quinn sucks and always has! Can we please put Derek Anderson back in.
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You make some very good points. And you're right about the right side of the line, that needs upgraded this offseason. I feel like you need to put a TE over there almost always but it's not as bad as the 5 sacks imply. And you're right about playing the Vikings, it's not easy for anybody. I'm not calling for BQs head and I think he needs a few weeks if not, a whole year to improve. I just fear that he isn't going to be a good QB (I hope he is) and I really can't stand another year worrying about the QBs. We have an entire team to worry about here. And DA does make some bad decisions but he too is a young QB and I was excited to see what he would do this year. It should be his make-or-break season. I hoped he would get the job and sink or swim this year and if he sank, hand it over to Brady. I just think DA can read a defense really well, and yes I really do believe that, it's just that he throws some bad balls and the worst possible thing usually happens when he does.
I view Quinn very much the same way you do really. I wasn't high on him coming out and I sure as heck didn't want CLE to ever consider him with the 3rd over all pick in the 2007 draft. I was quite happy to see CLE initially pass him over. But like you I do have hopes that he succeeds. He has a lot of tools working in his favor, but some working againts. To me, he was similar to the Drew Brees mold coming in. Whether he can put it together is what is in question. But he has to play to see what he is.
DA is a young QB as well. But he is a young QB with a very good number of starts to look at and make a judgement on. Quinn doesn't and any NFL team can't leave a 1st RD QB on the bench in favor of a 6th round pick from another team (claimed from PS waivers) who has had 25+ starts and show little to know development. I would never say seriously that DA can't ever get better. Every person can improve at anything. But so far there had been no signs that the improvement will be in the near future. I certainly wish I could share your beliefe that DA can read a defense, but what I have seen from his first start in 2006 to his last start in 2008 doesn't jive with the idea. The same read mistake (against in division opponents) occur. As I said though, it could all one day click for DA.
If CLE was a team where QB was the only weak area and they had long current winning history, I'd be more than willing to give DA even more of a leash, but it's not where the team is.
Masters said:
I view Quinn very much the same way you do really. I wasn't high on him coming out and I sure as heck didn't want CLE to ever consider him with the 3rd over all pick in the 2007 draft. I was quite happy to see CLE initially pass him over. But like you I do have hopes that he succeeds. He has a lot of tools working in his favor, but some working againts. To me, he was similar to the Drew Brees mold coming in. Whether he can put it together is what is in question. But he has to play to see what he is.DA is a young QB as well. But he is a young QB with a very good number of starts to look at and make a judgement on. Quinn doesn't and any NFL team can't leave a 1st RD QB on the bench in favor of a 6th round pick from another team (claimed from PS waivers) who has had 25+ starts and show little to know development. I would never say seriously that DA can't ever get better. Every person can improve at anything. But so far there had been no signs that the improvement will be in the near future. I certainly wish I could share your beliefe that DA can read a defense, but what I have seen from his first start in 2006 to his last start in 2008 doesn't jive with the idea. The same read mistake (against in division opponents) occur. As I said though, it could all one day click for DA.
If CLE was a team where QB was the only weak area and they had long current winning history, I'd be more than willing to give DA even more of a leash, but it's not where the team is.
It sounds like we are almost in total agreement. It is do-or-die for whichever one of them started this year. It's Brady's turn to make something out of this. I don't see anything wrong with letting him play the entire year good-or-bad.
And about DA reading a defense, He's no Peyton Manning but he is, at this point, much better than Quinn. A lot of his deep throws are a result of him spotting something pre-snap. This is what some people misinterperate as "staring down a reciever" The result of which is usually positive unless BE drops it. Most of his big plays have come from a pre-snap read that he and Braylon both recognize and agree on. I have yet to see Quinn do this with any reciever in any game yet. DA's biggest problems are forcing short routes and getting picked and sailing shorter out routes and getting picked. I feel like if he can fix these two things, which can be easily fixed, he has more of an upside than Quinn. With that said however, at this point Quinn should get the whole year to show what he's got unless he is the only reason we're losing.
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excuses,excuses,excuses....you are talking in paradoxes,"quinn ran the offense well" followed by "our defense wore down due to the offense going 3 and out too much"...you can't have it both ways.Quinn, a 3 year player,has no accuracy,I have also seen the excuse"well he was nervous" this guy was suppossed to be NFL ready coming outta college..I gotta hand it to you quinn fans,you're loyal,deluded,and refuse to face facts,but loyal.If this turd hasn't got it figured out by game6 then his place is the bench.
So, then...in your world, Quinn is entirely resposible for the offense not producing in every situation. That's total crap! I made every excuse I could for Anderson, and still would, if he were in there. I'm not really a "Quinn fan"...I'm a Browns' fan. Quinn may be a "3 year player"...but you have to take into consideration his limited playing time. I have no loyalty to any player....just the team. If you have some reason to think that DA should be the qb, explain.....but don't give me that crap about him being a pro bowler......that's ancient history.
So, then...in your world, Quinn is entirely resposible for the offense not producing in every situation. That's total crap! I made every excuse I could for Anderson, and still would, if he were in there. I'm not really a "Quinn fan"...I'm a Browns' fan. Quinn may be a "3 year player"...but you have to take into consideration his limited playing time. I have no loyalty to any player....just the team. If you have some reason to think that DA should be the qb, explain.....but don't give me that crap about him being a pro bowler......that's ancient history.
hey dude...you obviously have me confused with a DA pimp...I am a Browns pimp..I am not crazy about either one...but forced to choose I'd take DA...at least he can throw the long ball
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It's just that simple, though some don't understand or care about how much Quinn busting hurts our team in the long-run. Quinn busting hurts the team?How so? You think the team will fall apart because some fans don't like/trust/want quinn as the Browns QB?Give me a break...I doubt that they care..what about DA busting? Lets say your boy goes down and(gasp) DA has to step in,according to your theory he will be traumatized,as well as the team as a whole by all the DA bashing that has went on. Talk about spinning a tale to suit your agenda!
Who cares what DA does. The guy is useless here, heck, even he knows it. Quinn not panning out means another big resource having to be found.
Yet, the mindnumbing idiots can't figure that out. Amazing.
Who cares what DA does. The guy is useless here, heck, even he knows it. Quinn not panning out means another big resource having to be found.
Yet, the mindnumbing idiots can't figure that out. Amazing.
:laughs: he knows it does he?What do you base that remark on?Did you have a personal conversation with the man? The post was in reply to someone saying that quinn bashing somehow "hurts"the Browns...I think that conclusion is a crock..
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@shepwrite said:
Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him.Aaron Rodgers is playing in exactly the same offense he watched and practiced in for three years behind Favre. His first two camps and preseasons were a little rugged, by the way. Only last year did he start to seriously look like The Man.
What about you talking about this being close to Quinn O at ND??
The O isn't a issue.
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@shepwrite said:
Seriously, if anybody really thinks 21 for 35 for 205 and a pick (with a TD canceled by penalty) is a horrific first game in your first season as a starter? Against one of the league's best defenses?Boy, are you nutso.
I am totally willing to say Quinn sucks and isn't going to work out if and when that time comes. It's at least 7 or 8 starts away.
1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.
But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.
And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
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@shepwrite said:
Seriously, if anybody really thinks 21 for 35 for 205 and a pick (with a TD canceled by penalty) is a horrific first game in your first season as a starter? Against one of the league's best defenses?Boy, are you nutso.
I am totally willing to say Quinn sucks and isn't going to work out if and when that time comes. It's at least 7 or 8 starts away.
1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.
But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.
And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.
But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.
And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
And it was not a "horrible" game. It was not good, but he definitely did not cause the browns to lose.
It is what it is, a sub-par outing. They will get better.
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@shepwrite said:
Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him."HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"
-shepwrite circa 2007
.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"
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@shepwrite said:
Seriously, if anybody really thinks 21 for 35 for 205 and a pick (with a TD canceled by penalty) is a horrific first game in your first season as a starter? Against one of the league's best defenses?Boy, are you nutso.
I am totally willing to say Quinn sucks and isn't going to work out if and when that time comes. It's at least 7 or 8 starts away.
1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.
But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.
And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
HUH? Pass interference play to BE well over 10 yards. So was the ball BE dropped.
Quinn didn't play a good game. But the exaggeration that it was horrific and that only one pass was 10 yards in the air are just silly to me.
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1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.
But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.
And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
And it was not a "horrible" game. It was not good, but he definitely did not cause the browns to lose.
It is what it is, a sub-par outing. They will get better.
AdaM said:
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.
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@shepwrite said:
Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him."HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"
-shepwrite circa 2007
.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"
"HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"
-shepwrite circa 2007
.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"
I start getting a little worried every time Lumspackle starts "remembering" quotes by guys from 2 years ago.
Just a little unnerving........
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"HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"
-shepwrite circa 2007
.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"
I start getting a little worried every time Lumspackle starts "remembering" quotes by guys from 2 years ago.
Just a little unnerving........
I start getting a little worried every time Lumspackle starts "remembering" quotes by guys from 2 years ago.
Just a little unnerving........
Maybe every time he see's something he deems ridiculous, he screen shots it and puts it in the archives. For the purpose of saying "told-ya-so" 2 years later.
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@jadbf said:
OK can you stop with the gay :laughs:? We get it, you think it's funny when people disagree with you because you think it makes them stupid.JADBF....I don't know you from shit...but I do know your constant use of the word"reference" as in..."obviously didn't get the reference" shows how you dismiss the ones you feel are stupid....so you do your thing and I'll do mine
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AdaM said:
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.
QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
Masters said:
That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?
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@shepwrite said:
Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him."HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"
-shepwrite circa 2007
.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"
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QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
Masters said:
That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?
QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?
I think we can. Mangini took the blame for that play calling in his presser.
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QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
Masters said:
That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?
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QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)
"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?
Masters said:
That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?
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35?WOW you are obviously not that smart.It only took me one of your posts to figure out you're still stuck in the finger painting phase.@jadbf said:
Exactly, it took me 35 of your posts to figure out your level of intelligence. How many more till you think it's confirmed for everyone else? -
1. Second half of the season in 07 Chud decided throwing the ball would be a great idea in the cold, windy months with a young QB. Your QB will fail. Against Cinci, he, I believe, threw the ball over 30 times starting early in the game and the wind was over 40mph. No QB can succeed in those conditions.
Look at it like this, if both QBs are mediocre. as they are. then who do you want in there when at their best? Brady at his best (see denver 08) or DA at his best (half of 07 and against NY last year)?
Regarding assertion #1 WRONG. Ben Rothlisberger completed completed an insanely high percentage of passes in a game (something like 65%) when he was playing for Miami of Ohio in a freaking hurricane- gusts over 50mph- the reason I wanted to draft the kid when we had a chance to. For those with a short attention span, Benny Boy repeated that feat against the Browns- 65% completion percentage- when Hurricane Ike blew through Cleveland last September. DA? 56%, 2 picks, rating 44. Apples to apples.
It's yet to be seen what Quinn's "best" is. He gets all year to show what he has. What I've seen is Anderson has seriously regressed from his "best". It ain't exactly Rocket Science- defenses figured out take away DA's deep stuff- and make him beat you short. Sorry, FAIL.
Regarding assertion #1 WRONG. Ben Rothlisberger completed completed an insanely high percentage of passes in a game (something like 65%) when he was playing for Miami of Ohio in a freaking hurricane- gusts over 50mph- the reason I wanted to draft the kid when we had a chance to. For those with a short attention span, Benny Boy repeated that feat against the Browns- 65% completion percentage- when Hurricane Ike blew through Cleveland last September. DA? 56%, 2 picks, rating 44. Apples to apples.
It's yet to be seen what Quinn's "best" is. He gets all year to show what he has. What I've seen is Anderson has seriously regressed from his "best". It ain't exactly Rocket Science- defenses figured out take away DA's deep stuff- and make him beat you short. Sorry, FAIL.
Ben may have been able to do it once but that is a noteworthy accomplishment. I'm speaking in general terms of course. Those types of conditions are hell on the passing game. Just because once every 15 years some QB has great numbers in those conditions doesn't mean it is to be expected from everyone, all of the time. One of the great things about football is the weather and how gameplans change according to it. Chud hung us out to dry and let DA take the blame for the loss.
Maybe we haven't seen Brady's best yet. All I can go on is what I've seen and I think I've seen all Brady is as a QB. I really want to be wrong but it looks to me as if he has peaked. Maybe he'll calm down and start playing with confidence and we'll all be happy but all he has shown so far is he is lacking in some very key areas.
Vision
Poise
Arm Strength
Accuracy
Leadership
All he shows us is that he looks like a great athelete but does that always translate onto the field? Being atheletic doesn't make you a good football player.
If he doesn't show up soon, than Brady's storybook career may..........FAIL
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even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.
HUH? Pass interference play to BE well over 10 yards. So was the ball BE dropped.
Quinn didn't play a good game. But the exaggeration that it was horrific and that only one pass was 10 yards in the air are just silly to me.
Masters said:
HUH? Pass interference play to BE well over 10 yards. So was the ball BE dropped.Quinn didn't play a good game. But the exaggeration that it was horrific and that only one pass was 10 yards in the air are just silly to me.
When I said that I was talking about the last two possessions if you read. And I did not say he did not throw over 10 yards I said he did not complete one over 10 yards. And for the entire game he only completed 4 passes that traveled over 10 yards in the air. I did watch the game and I did say that BQ did not lose the game but he most certainly did not do anything to win the game. And I does not matter that the Browns ran the ball 3 times inside the 6, I guess that could tell you how much confidence that the Coaches have in BQ getting the ball inside the endzone.
And dropped balls do not matter, that was made really clear when people talked about DA. This is the no excuse zone for QBs I seem to recall. BQ held to same standards as DA. Drops do not matter.
I still stand by that BQ looked lost until the Vikings went to a prevent defense. That does not mean he did not have a decent play here and there. He did. It also does not mean that he will not look better next week, he probably will. And it does not mean you pull him after one game, you don't. It means in this game he sucked, it was not an average game, it was a bad game.
I can not imagine how much crap DA would get if he had played like this in his first year of starting, oh wait he did have a few games like this in his first year and he caught hell. Only difference is that he played like this late in the season and not to start it off.
For the record I am not for benching BQ, keep him in there. You need more body of work than 4 starts. He needs a string of starts. I am just saying in this game he sucked and did nothing to help the Browns win. That has nothing to do with DA.
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