Terry Pluto on Browns OTAs
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I am not so sure.
To me the big problem was communication. That is on the D coordinator.
Everything I gather is there was too much thinking and not enough reacting and making the O react to what you are doing. Teaching graduate material to an undergraduate class is on the professor if everybody is failing.
The two biggest coverage busts, one which went for a big gain that setup the Panthers in scoring position...
The other which gave the Jets a tying touchdown...
Both were to Grant Delpit's side of the field. Both, unsurprisingly, came with calls being incorrectly given to the corners. Either not knowing the correct verbiage or just relaying the wrong call to the DB's on your split field is absolutely on your shoulders as a safety. I've done that before too. We had a check ("red") against certain looks, and I gave a bad check. Locked a corner in man and forgot he wasn't in cloud. RB ended up catching a short gain flat, and took it for a TD in a game that was decided by 6 points against a team from PA (Hickory) That shit made me sick to my stomach.
It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language. If somebody botches the call wrong on the field, that isn't on the coach. Players need accountability as well. By no small coincidence, once Delpit's role was reduced to more of his 2021 limitations, he started playing better. Kid just mentally had trouble getting up to speed. And he was a high 2nd round pick with expectations to take that next step, on a team that didn't have a ton of quality DB play behind him.
The two biggest coverage busts, one which went for a big gain that setup the Panthers in scoring position...
The other which gave the Jets a tying touchdown...
Both were to Grant Delpit's side of the field. Both, unsurprisingly, came with calls being incorrectly given to the corners. Either not knowing the correct verbiage or just relaying the wrong call to the DB's on your split field is absolutely on your shoulders as a safety. I've done that before too. We had a check ("red") against certain looks, and I gave a bad check. Locked a corner in man and forgot he wasn't in cloud. RB ended up catching a short gain flat, and took it for a TD in a game that was decided by 6 points against a team from PA (Hickory) That shit made me sick to my stomach.
It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language. If somebody botches the call wrong on the field, that isn't on the coach. Players need accountability as well. By no small coincidence, once Delpit's role was reduced to more of his 2021 limitations, he started playing better. Kid just mentally had trouble getting up to speed. And he was a high 2nd round pick with expectations to take that next step, on a team that didn't have a ton of quality DB play behind him.
No doubt players need to be held accountable. I agree 100%.
As you said, "It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language."
If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him. If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
The Jets “Hail Mary” you are up 30-17 under 2 mins…the two deepest guys have one job and one job only don’t let anyone in an opposing jersey deeper than you. Mistakes happen. The mistake should have been both guys tailing the deep guy.
We may find out Joe had some knuckleheads he was working with but he was given time and draft capital and we had an infusion of talent from his first year…we tried.
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And do what? I am serious. Standing around is being a leader? Plus, who says Myles is or wants to be a leader? You don't pin the leader tag on the donkey. It just happens. Some special teams player can emerge as a leader. It doesn't have to be the best player.
As fans we many times think the best player has to be the leader, but the players on the team determine who is the leader.
Good points!
However, I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football. They can be quiet leaders in that way; but they don't necessarily have to be team captains per say. Like you said, the players often vote on that because it's effective.
I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.
umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA. So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.
umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA. So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.
umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA. So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.
As bad as that may seem to some of us - try not let it twist your nipples. Find me 2 veterans on this team that condition themselves better and consistently play at a Pro Bowl level because of it. At this time of the off-season, I'd rather see the guys competing for the 2nd RB role learning and getting acclimated with all the OTA reps (than the guy that continuously averages over 5 yards a carry and ranks #1 or #2 in yards after contact). On defense, there's a ton of newbies/newcomers at DE that could use the OTA reps more than Garrett needs them. It's a long season ahead so they'll have plenty of chances to role model how they became ideal professionals that have EARNED very respectful contract extensions from their employer. As the season gets underway, new teammates can also watch film of how they excel during games.
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I will say that the work ethic of Garrett and Chubb make them both good leaders by example for the younger guys transitioning from college to PROFESSIONAL football.
umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA. So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.
umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA. So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.
As bad as that may seem to some of us - try not let it twist your nipples. Find me 2 veterans on this team that condition themselves better and consistently play at a Pro Bowl level because of it. At this time of the off-season, I'd rather see the guys competing for the 2nd RB role learning and getting acclimated with all the OTA reps (than the guy that continuously averages over 5 yards a carry and ranks #1 or #2 in yards after contact). On defense, there's a ton of newbies/newcomers at DE that could use the OTA reps more than Garrett needs them. It's a long season ahead so they'll have plenty of chances to role model how they became ideal professionals that have EARNED very respectful contract extensions from their employer. As the season gets underway, new teammates can also watch film of how they excel during games.
We are gonna need Nick in December and January. I’m predicting this season to be his heaviest workload. Mental reps at this point are less important than him conditioning his body for the grind…he still looks like spends more time in the weight room than in front of TV and quite honestly he’s the guy i worry about the least.
Now If we want to see leadership we need Myles to play 17 games next year if he misses a few it’s because of a cut block and not a joyride.
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The two biggest coverage busts, one which went for a big gain that setup the Panthers in scoring position...
The other which gave the Jets a tying touchdown...
Both were to Grant Delpit's side of the field. Both, unsurprisingly, came with calls being incorrectly given to the corners. Either not knowing the correct verbiage or just relaying the wrong call to the DB's on your split field is absolutely on your shoulders as a safety. I've done that before too. We had a check ("red") against certain looks, and I gave a bad check. Locked a corner in man and forgot he wasn't in cloud. RB ended up catching a short gain flat, and took it for a TD in a game that was decided by 6 points against a team from PA (Hickory) That shit made me sick to my stomach.
It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language. If somebody botches the call wrong on the field, that isn't on the coach. Players need accountability as well. By no small coincidence, once Delpit's role was reduced to more of his 2021 limitations, he started playing better. Kid just mentally had trouble getting up to speed. And he was a high 2nd round pick with expectations to take that next step, on a team that didn't have a ton of quality DB play behind him.
No doubt players need to be held accountable. I agree 100%.
As you said, "It's up to the D cord to make sure these players are versed in the language and can effectively communicate within that language."
If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him. If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.
If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him. If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.
It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around. And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times. But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole. The Pats game was the first instance of that.
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It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around
I agree. I never suggested otherwise.
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If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him. If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.
It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around. And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times. But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole. The Pats game was the first instance of that.
It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around. And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times. But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole. The Pats game was the first instance of that.
The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense".
That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
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It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around. And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times. But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole. The Pats game was the first instance of that.
The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense".
That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Ya gotta be able to rush the passer.
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That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Ya gotta be able to rush the passer.
Ya gotta be able to rush the passer.
Hold up....
Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?
MIND.
BLOWN.
?
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Hold up....
Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?
MIND.
BLOWN.
?
Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Hold up....
Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?
MIND.
BLOWN.
?
Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
-
Hold up....
Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?
MIND.
BLOWN.
?
Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
I hear ya. Past three years, I needed more fingers and toes to count the times when an analyst or someone paid to give opinions would point we need to change something (disguise it better send an extra guy or two) because our front 4 wasn’t getting pressure. I called it “The hope Myles gets there strategy”. I remember Washington game I think (season at that point was over the brink) and we see Myles kicking inside and destroy a guard and center…I’m like nice could we have seen that earlier or more frequently
Our secondary…anyone think we are void of athletic talent back there? The issues in the past have been between the ears. Why? I beat the horse enough I’ll turn the page
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Going back to Joe Bannon. 'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.
It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is. If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them. - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.
I hear ya. Past three years, I needed more fingers and toes to count the times when an analyst or someone paid to give opinions would point we need to change something (disguise it better send an extra guy or two) because our front 4 wasn’t getting pressure. I called it “The hope Myles gets there strategy”. I remember Washington game I think (season at that point was over the brink) and we see Myles kicking inside and destroy a guard and center…I’m like nice could we have seen that earlier or more frequently
Our secondary…anyone think we are void of athletic talent back there? The issues in the past have been between the ears. Why? I beat the horse enough I’ll turn the page
I hear ya. Past three years, I needed more fingers and toes to count the times when an analyst or someone paid to give opinions would point we need to change something (disguise it better send an extra guy or two) because our front 4 wasn’t getting pressure. I called it “The hope Myles gets there strategy”. I remember Washington game I think (season at that point was over the brink) and we see Myles kicking inside and destroy a guard and center…I’m like nice could we have seen that earlier or more frequently
Our secondary…anyone think we are void of athletic talent back there? The issues in the past have been between the ears. Why? I beat the horse enough I’ll turn the page
Yeah, it's okay to vent when you're a fan of this franchise. Your never-ending loyalty over that years gives you that right. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be more successful.
It'll be nice to add the extensive experience of Jim Schwartz as our DC. It's already had a profound impact on our off-season acquisitions/draft on the IDL and edge as well as Safety...
While I agree there's talent in the secondary - they have to do a better job of communicating and learning from their mistakes. The LSU guys (Greedy Williams and Grant Delpit) haven't always looked like the brightest apples in the orchard. Then add their injury histories to insult. That'll make people forget about how talented they are real quickly. Having said all that, I thought Delpit finally turned it around the 2nd half of last season. When the consistency noticeably improves - that's usually a good sign for a young player like Delpit.
Stubborn, stupid or correct by accident - I'm excited for this season...
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...this isn't Pluto:
According to CB Denzel Ward, the secondary won’t have the same chance for miscommunication this year:
Denzel Ward thinks the defense that Jim Schwartz brings will eliminate a lot of the miscommunication problems the defense has last year.
There are positives and negatives to both types of systems. “Read-and-react” coverage allows for defenders to adjust to the offenses scheme as the play unfolds but it can lead to breakdowns like we have seen in Cleveland. The “we play what we play” coverage minimizes those miscommunications but doesn’t allow for flexibility to change based on what is happening in a play.
Given the experience the last couple of seasons, Browns fans will happily accept a safer brand of coverage.
Ward also noted that we are likely to see him playing in the slot more than in previous seasons. Much of that could be Schwartz looking to match up his cornerbacks with specific receivers. Long gone are times when receivers line up only on the left or right or only on the outside or inside.
One concern when Ward is inside is the physical toll that can have on a player as the slot corner has far more run-game responsibilities than those on the outside. In the slot, Ward is more likely to face offensive linemen and tight ends instead of receivers blocking him.
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I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot. He'll wind up with another concussion or something.
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...this isn't Pluto:
According to CB Denzel Ward, the secondary won’t have the same chance for miscommunication this year:
Denzel Ward thinks the defense that Jim Schwartz brings will eliminate a lot of the miscommunication problems the defense has last year.
There are positives and negatives to both types of systems. “Read-and-react” coverage allows for defenders to adjust to the offenses scheme as the play unfolds but it can lead to breakdowns like we have seen in Cleveland. The “we play what we play” coverage minimizes those miscommunications but doesn’t allow for flexibility to change based on what is happening in a play.
Given the experience the last couple of seasons, Browns fans will happily accept a safer brand of coverage.
Ward also noted that we are likely to see him playing in the slot more than in previous seasons. Much of that could be Schwartz looking to match up his cornerbacks with specific receivers. Long gone are times when receivers line up only on the left or right or only on the outside or inside.
One concern when Ward is inside is the physical toll that can have on a player as the slot corner has far more run-game responsibilities than those on the outside. In the slot, Ward is more likely to face offensive linemen and tight ends instead of receivers blocking him.
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I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot. He'll wind up with another concussion or something.
I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot. He'll wind up with another concussion or something.
Probably going to happen no matter where he plays. Once you have rattled your brain a few times the odds are pretty steep it will continue. If it happens again, if I were him I would seriously consider retirement. But, it may already be too late. He may already be destined to being a drooler by the time he is 65.
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I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot. He'll wind up with another concussion or something.
Probably going to happen no matter where he plays. Once you have rattled your brain a few times the odds are pretty steep it will continue. If it happens again, if I were him I would seriously consider retirement. But, it may already be too late. He may already be destined to being a drooler by the time he is 65.
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At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)
6-8
374
11 5/8"
36 3/8"
87 7/8"
senior bowl
today's look
“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”
“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”
Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.
Team physicals were today. Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around. And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times. But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole. The Pats game was the first instance of that.
The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense".
That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense".
That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Yeah but this is Cleveland - what could possibly go wrong?
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At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)
6-8
374
11 5/8"
36 3/8"
87 7/8"
senior bowl
today's look
“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”
“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”
Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.
Team physicals were today. Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction
At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)
6-8
374
11 5/8"
36 3/8"
87 7/8"
senior bowl
today's look
“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”
“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”
Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.
Team physicals were today. Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction
Classic stuff! That young man's got a lot of character right there - if he didn't throw it all up. That's the kind of guy you want to devour a half gallon of mint chocolate chip ice cream with on the couch watching an aerobics class on TV.
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