All the Rb's

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
but if he had come here he wouldn't be the same player...you have to have blocking.

Bullshit. Not when you can break six consecutive tackles you don't.

hammertime

@ballpeen said:
I would too....Joe was the pick we needed to make.
It's not that I wouldn't want Peterson, but if he had come here he wouldn't be the same player...you have to have blocking.

Why bother with actual facts, nobody wants the truth.

AZBrowns

@solon16 said:
Ignorant? Ignorant is thinking lineman are more important that skill positions.

Wow.... just wow....

ballpeen

@solon16 said:
Ignorant? Ignorant is thinking lineman are more important that skill positions.

Sorry Solon...they are. It's just that people like you don't know it.

I will beat you every time with a great line and a HS running back over you with a HS line and Jim Brown in the backfield.

Bank it

ballpeen

mz. said:
Bullshit. Not when you can break six consecutive tackles you don't.

No BS man...no matter what you do, without a line, everything else is neutralized.

And please, don't use our crappy tackling as your reasoning..

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
don't use our crappy tackling as your reasoning..

I'm not just using ours, 'peen. I'm using the rest of the NFL's, as well.

ANYWAY...I'm glad we have Thomas but Peterson is undoubtedly special.

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
I will beat you every time with a great line and a HS running back over you with a HS line and Jim Brown in the backfield.

Both of those teams will suck.

But I'll take Jim Brown and 5 scrubs over the 90's Cowboys line and Paul Palmer.

OconRecon

Good to hear this.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...looks_good.html

Browns RB Harrison looks good in practice

by Tony Grossi/ Plain Dealer reporter

Thursday September 17, 2009, 7:40 PM

The Browns' running back situation, which was down to Jamal Lewis in the opener against Minnesota, is getting stronger.

Jerome Harrison has had no limitations in practices this week. That's the first time he has had back-to-back good days since suffering a knee injury early in training camp.

"He's made great strides over the week," coach Eric Mangini said. "He had a pretty good week last week, but I just thought it was better to give him another week. I like the way he looked [on Wednesday]. I'm encouraged by his continued progress."

Harrison played briefly in the first preseason game and then sat out the final three exhibition games. He was inactive for the regular-season opener.

In June, Mangini spoke of an enlarged role for Harrison in the offense. The injury gave rookie James Davis the opportunity to shine in preseason, raising speculation that he could supplant Harrison as a change-of-pace back.

But Davis suffered a shoulder injury against Minnesota and missed Wednesday's practice. Harrison appears to be on track to pick up some playing time.

How might he be used?

"It really depends," Mangini said. "As we had last week, there'll be different guys in different packages." The Cribbs factor: The Browns gave up a kickoff return of 41 yards and a punt return of 36 yards last Sunday, igniting two Vikings scoring drives. The assumption is that the teams sorely missed Josh Cribbs, who is off coverage units because of his increased role on offense. Cribbs led the Browns in special teams tackles the past three years.

But Mangini has no intention of returning Cribbs to plug the leaks.

"It's about the group," Mangini said. "And it's about leveraging the player, understanding how they're going to block you, and being able to recognize and beat those blocks and get to where you're supposed to get. You can't have missed tackles, can't have people vacating their responsibility. You've got to cover the whole field. There's things you can do to help your partner. So a lot of things come into play. Josh is a very good cover player but I feel we have good cover players in addition to Josh."

It's possible the Browns will try to acclimate newly signed free agent Ray Ventrone onto the coverage units as soon as possible. The former New England Patriot was signed on Wednesday as a safety/receiver and special teams player.

"Special teams is how I've been able to play this long," said Ventrone, who was undrafted in 2005 out of Villanova. Brown pants: The Browns intend to wear brown pants and white jerseys on the road all season.

Mangini said he decided on the radical look because he thought it looked good "and the guys felt the same way." Players also find the brown pants more comfortable and less restrictive because of the absence of a stripe down the legs.

"There was no bigger part to that decision," Mangini said. Injury report: Davis improved to have limited participation in Thursday's practice. That was the only change on the Browns' injury report. Orton's finger: Denver quarterback Kyle Orton played in Cincinnati with a cut finger and dislocated knuckle on his throwing hand protected by stitches, a wrap and a glove. He had the stitches removed this week and is contemplating removing the glove.

Despite the bad digit, Orton was 17 of 28 for 243 yards in Denver's 12-7 win in Cincinnati. Eighty-seven of the yards came on the "immaculate deflection" play to win the game. Local tie: We inadvertently omitted Richard Quinn from our Wednesday scouting report on Denver. The Broncos rookie tight end attended Maple Heights High School his last two prep years and played for Butch Davis at North Carolina. The Broncos traded up with Pittsburgh to take Quinn in the second round of the draft. Quinn is a native of Huntsville, Ala.

ballpeen

No doubt Peterson is special.

Just a quick review of the Vikings O-line show

Hutcheson...1st rounder

Ryan cook 2nd rounder

Bryant McKinney 1st rounder

Loadholt...2nd rounder

That is the reason Peterson plays as well as he does.

The Vikings are a team who knows where to invest top picks....yes I know Hutch wasn't drafted by them.

Legacy Fan

@inspecta said:
Well I'm definitely a trenches guy. I place high importance on the production of the offensive line, but Peterson IS special. He's the exception to the rule. Peterson could get 100 yds with a bunch of 10 year olds blocking for him....
Thomas is a great lineman no doubt, but like I've said a million times, I've yet to see him break a 80 yd TD and swing the game in our favor....

No, he hasn't. But J-Lew's 60 yarder against Cincy (2007), and Harrison's 72 yarder against Buffaloni ran right behind (and then past) him.

Davis' 80 yarder went left too, though I can't remember if JT was in the game at that time.

hammertime

@ballpeen said:
No doubt Peterson is special.
Just a quick review of the Vikings O-line show

Hutcheson...1st rounder

Ryan cook 2nd rounder

Bryant McKinney 1st rounder

Loadholt...2nd rounder

That is the reason Peterson plays as well as he does.

The Vikings are a team who knows where to invest top picks....yes I know Hutch wasn't drafted by them.

Expect half the lifespan of Peterson with a bad o-line

choco

@ballpeen said:
Sorry Solon...they are. It's just that people like you don't know it.
I will beat you every time with a great line and a HS running back over you with a HS line and Jim Brown in the backfield.

Bank it

your average person cannot evaluate an OLman.....case in point, Solon (hell, im not that good at it and i love OL). it so much easier to do this with the skill positions because they stand out, you can check stats and make comparisons. they make you get off your seat and scream......yet only the very best of the best skill positions make more money than OL/DL....i wonder why that is? obviously, the people with the money put a higher value on that kind of talent.

great skill position players do not make an OL good.....however, the vice versa is true. i have to wonder how many of our bust picks would still be on the team if your OL was stocked well enough to keep them healthy. AP would take a beating in our backfield, and his durability would be compromised. his ability is top notch, but this is a team sport. if you think he could do it all on his own, you're mental.

its so much easier to sit back, after the fact and say we should/woulda coulda.....couch was a can't miss pick as well.....how'd that work out?

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
No doubt Peterson is special.
Just a quick review of the Vikings O-line show

Hutcheson...1st rounder

Ryan cook 2nd rounder

Bryant McKinney 1st rounder

Loadholt...2nd rounder

That is the reason Peterson plays as well as he does.

The Vikings are a team who knows where to invest top picks....yes I know Hutch wasn't drafted by them.

Bullshit again. By that logic, Lewis/Davis/Harrison should be tearing it up behind:

Thomas - 1st round (overall pick #3)

Steinbach - 2nd round (overall pick 33, CIN)

Mack - 1st round (pick 22, right?)

St Clair (round 3, Rams?)

Womack (round 4, SEA)

But yeah, they're not.

I'm not claiming the o-line isn't important, just that some backs transcend what's in front of them.

? Masters

mz. said:
Bullshit again. By that logic, Lewis/Davis/Harrison should be tearing it up behind:
Thomas - 1st round (overall pick #3)

Steinbach - 2nd round (overall pick 33, CIN)

Mack - 1st round (pick 22, right?)

St Clair (round 3, Rams?)

Womack (round 4, SEA)

But yeah, they're not.

I'm not claiming the o-line isn't important, just that some backs transcend what's in front of them.

Steinbach is pass blocking G, not a road grader

Mack a rookie

It's fuzzy logic to equal draft position and actual abilities for a OL. But if we are going to, all 5 OL guys for MIN are round 1 and 2 vs. CLE's 3 in RD1/2 and 3 in 3/4.

Peterson I am sure would have still gotten his if CLE had drafted him. But I would questing that "his" would be as much to date. I'd also question if he would have held up if he was in CLE (1/2 season in the dome vs. outside, and no back like Chester Taylor to spell him).

? mz.

Masters said:
Steinbach is pass blocking G, not a road grader
Mack a rookie

Loadholt's a rookie, too, as long as we're choosing to split hairs.

Masters said:
It's fuzzy logic to equal draft position and actual abilities for a OL. But if we are going to, all 5 OL guys for MIN are round 1 and 2 vs. CLE's 3 in RD1/2 and 3 in 3/4.

I agree, but I'm not the one who brought it up. Ballpeen did.

Plus, since you know we're still splitting hairs, the fifth starting O-lineman (who Peen refused to list and you assumed was a top pick, too) for MIN (Anthony Herrera) appears to have been an UDFA. Interesting...

Masters said:
Peterson I am sure would have still gotten his if CLE had drafted him. But I would questing that "his" would be as much to date. I'd also question if he would have held up if he was in CLE (1/2 season in the dome vs. outside, and no back like Chester Taylor to spell him).

Not saying you're right or wrong, but now we've delved into opinions.

hammertime

We could simplify it and just say that half our o-line is good and all of Minn. o-line is good.

Leaving us with half the output of Minn. and probaly half the wins to boot.

? Masters

mz. said:
Loadholt's a rookie, too, as long as we're choosing to split hairs.
I agree, but I'm not the one who brought it up. Ballpeen did.

Plus, since you know we're still splitting hairs, the fifth starting O-lineman (who Peen refused to list and you assumed was a top pick, too) for MIN (Anthony Herrera) appears to have been an UDFA. Interesting...

Not saying you're right or wrong, but now we've delved into opinions.

Loadholts is a rookie. So I see your point. Though I'd argue rookie C vs. a RT aren't apples and apples. But again, I see your point.

Actually there were a couple of flaws in what was listed for MIN starting line (now that I went and looked it up myself). It is actually:

LT McKinnie - 1st RD 2002

LG Hutchinson - 1st RD 2001

C Sullivan - 6th RD 2008

RG Herrera - UDFA

RT Loadholt - 2nd RD 2009

This also isn't the same line AD has run behind the last couple of years (was also mostly an established line when AD came to the Vikings). So let's see how he does this whole season w/ those new parts on that line, aside from running all over CLE.

? mz.

If you ask me, I think there's way more value at RB than OL later in the draft, so I'm all for drafting the lineman high, eschewing picking the back until later.

The Peterson-vs-Thomas thing just feels like another-one-that-got-away is all.............

? Masters

mz. said:
The Peterson-vs-Thomas thing just feels like another-one-that-got-away is all.............

I'd agree w/ you on that, if Thomas hadn't come right in and been a pro bowl, all pro, franchise LT. But Thomas right now is looking like a guy who will be sitting at the corner giving up next to no sacks or the next 10 years (ala Ogden or Pace). Those guys don't come along often either. The chances are Peterson's better days will be behind him long before Joe's.

BrownIndian

Thomas was a safe pick. If Peterson's injury truly was bad and would have got worse then we would be cursing how we took him instead of JT, but thankfully for him it did not. We passed on Rapelisberger which to me was a bigger no-no seeing what iam seeing right now and the QB confusion we are having.