The 2023 season film studies. Thread of questions and answers.
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Ya know what me & Flugal would like to see? What the receiver routes looks like. Is there method to the madness? Is it, you go long, you go short? Does it look like receivers react to the end of their routes with 'Help the QB', or stand there at the end of their routes?
Ya know what me & Flugal would like to see? What the receiver routes looks like. Is there method to the madness? Is it, you go long, you go short? Does it look like receivers react to the end of their routes with 'Help the QB', or stand there at the end of their routes?
Yeah, I'll give you a good bit of that when I get to Tillman.
@tiamat63 well done sir !
2 of Hudson's false start kicks, were easy calls from my recliner. but, I'm not recalling Hudson cheating the start playing Right Tackle? something to watch for ? Thanks !
I'll give that another going over. I specifically targeted his time at LT because I know this Front Office will be weighing the $ worth re-signing Jed after this season. So any player they feel developed there as an equal to him is either a bargaining chip or just further reason to let him walk.
Speaking of RT, I'm about wrapped up with Dawand so that's on deck.
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If I remember correctly, this was what you were hoping for @tiamat63
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/09/browns-deshaun-watson-starting-commanders/
Deshaun Watson will start Friday vs. Commanders
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If I remember correctly, this was what you were hoping for @tiamat63
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/09/browns-deshaun-watson-starting-commanders/
Deshaun Watson will start Friday vs. Commanders
If I remember correctly, this was what you were hoping for @tiamat63
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/09/browns-deshaun-watson-starting-commanders/
Deshaun Watson will start Friday vs. Commanders
More along the lines of a - what I expect. Nothing crazy. A series, maybe two.
He can play a full qtr+ for the dress rehearsal.
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If I remember correctly, this was what you were hoping for @tiamat63
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/09/browns-deshaun-watson-starting-commanders/
Deshaun Watson will start Friday vs. Commanders
More along the lines of a - what I expect. Nothing crazy. A series, maybe two.
He can play a full qtr+ for the dress rehearsal.
More along the lines of a - what I expect. Nothing crazy. A series, maybe two.
He can play a full qtr+ for the dress rehearsal.
Plus they'll probably scrimmage against another team during the preseason (where they can't hit the QB but they can hurry his throws, bat the pass or intercept it). Sometimes they do it against a team on the exhibition schedule where they go 1's vrs 1's and 2's vrs 2's. If not, they'll schedule a nearby team like Buffalo for an afternoon session like they've done in the past.
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Before I wrap up Dewand and get to the 3rd part of Ceddy, naturally I got a few texts from a couple people telling me how good Baker looked in Tampa. Now that he's with a team that has receivers and "believes in him", (whatever the fuck that actually means) he'll somehow flourish.
It's like a breakup where you know there's something wrong with the other person, then you see them with someone else who says said ex is just great; but eventually you know the ugly side of that person manifests itself and they'll continue doing the same shit over and over, just to someone new. Only a matter of time.
That's Baker.
Watched all of his snaps. Counted 2 good reads, and then this gem of a misfire which was just SO familiar.
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Mid field on 2nd and short is a classic down and distance to push the ball downfield.
Under center, 21 personnel in ACE
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Strong fake, linebackers get sucked up and the underneath coverage is non-existent. Sell your action and finish your drop. So far, so good.
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Front side post, backside deep over = Yankee.
- Baker comes up, quality wall in front of him with plenty of space to launch.
- Locates and reads single high safety. He's leveraged more towards the boundary hash, but nothing crazy.
- Landmark throw. Read single high, throw single high. If it's cover 1 (which it is) you're throwing at the boundary hash to try and get YAC. If the MFS is in zone replace and steps down to take the deep over, then you end up throwing the post behind him. Obvious exceptions for elite corners. You can still beat a zone replacement, depending on the DB's depth and recovery drive. This is why processing these things so fast is crucial. That deep over is still viable against a cover 3.
- Either way, the MFS is WAY high, so your eyes can peep the boundary corner and confirm clear.
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Bakers eyes, even if he's decided to hit his outlet, still HAVE to cross the alley where the corner would have been. This should have been a giant red flag to put this ball on the deep over from field to boundary.
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- Instead he Brady Quinn's the shit out of this and takes the TE leak as his check down. Which gets lit up as the ball arrives.
- WR on the deep over is looking back expecting the ball, because he knows where the ball should be going - HIM.
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
And HERE.... with the Brownies. A play that I still maintain was the one that doomed his tenure in CLE. After this turnover, the front office had seen all they needed to see and were set to move on from Mayfield.
Page 35
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
MIN is currently sitting -6.5 week 1 against Tampa. If the Vikes defense looks any better than what they showed last season, I'll be in on taking them to win opening day on the strength of turnover margin.
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Before I wrap up Dewand and get to the 3rd part of Ceddy, naturally I got a few texts from a couple people telling me how good Baker looked in Tampa. Now that he's with a team that has receivers and "believes in him", (whatever the fuck that actually means) he'll somehow flourish.
It's like a breakup where you know there's something wrong with the other person, then you see them with someone else who says said ex is just great; but eventually you know the ugly side of that person manifests itself and they'll continue doing the same shit over and over, just to someone new. Only a matter of time.
That's Baker.
Watched all of his snaps. Counted 2 good reads, and then this gem of a misfire which was just SO familiar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mid field on 2nd and short is a classic down and distance to push the ball downfield.
Under center, 21 personnel in ACE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong fake, linebackers get sucked up and the underneath coverage is non-existent. Sell your action and finish your drop. So far, so good.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Front side post, backside deep over = Yankee.
- Baker comes up, quality wall in front of him with plenty of space to launch.
- Locates and reads single high safety. He's leveraged more towards the boundary hash, but nothing crazy.
- Landmark throw. Read single high, throw single high. If it's cover 1 (which it is) you're throwing at the boundary hash to try and get YAC. If the MFS is in zone replace and steps down to take the deep over, then you end up throwing the post behind him. Obvious exceptions for elite corners. You can still beat a zone replacement, depending on the DB's depth and recovery drive. This is why processing these things so fast is crucial. That deep over is still viable against a cover 3.
- Either way, the MFS is WAY high, so your eyes can peep the boundary corner and confirm clear.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bakers eyes, even if he's decided to hit his outlet, still HAVE to cross the alley where the corner would have been. This should have been a giant red flag to put this ball on the deep over from field to boundary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Instead he Brady Quinn's the shit out of this and takes the TE leak as his check down. Which gets lit up as the ball arrives.
- WR on the deep over is looking back expecting the ball, because he knows where the ball should be going - HIM.
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
And HERE.... with the Brownies. A play that I still maintain was the one that doomed his tenure in CLE. After this turnover, the front office had seen all they needed to see and were set to move on from Mayfield.
Page 35
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
MIN is currently sitting -6.5 week 1 against Tampa. If the Vikes defense looks any better than what they showed last season, I'll be in on taking them to win opening day on the strength of turnover margin.
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
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Ya know what me & Flugal would like to see? What the receiver routes looks like. Is there method to the madness? Is it, you go long, you go short? Does it look like receivers react to the end of their routes with 'Help the QB', or stand there at the end of their routes?
Yeah, I'll give you a good bit of that when I get to Tillman.
@tiamat63 well done sir !
2 of Hudson's false start kicks, were easy calls from my recliner. but, I'm not recalling Hudson cheating the start playing Right Tackle? something to watch for ? Thanks !
I'll give that another going over. I specifically targeted his time at LT because I know this Front Office will be weighing the $ worth re-signing Jed after this season. So any player they feel developed there as an equal to him is either a bargaining chip or just further reason to let him walk.
Speaking of RT, I'm about wrapped up with Dawand so that's on deck.
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If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
If the Bucs bring the A-train himself out of retirement, I'll consider it. ?
you know something ? unless i missed it I didnt see a damn thing about him vs the commanders
Went to start working on snaps for him against WSH and, same like last year, NFL+ is in pre-season form. Half the videos skip around with plays in random order, some games listed as 'uploaded' but I can't view, etc etc. Multi-Billion dollar enterprise and their film base is trash. I'll get back to you on that.
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Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
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Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
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Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
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I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
Ok so I'm not the only one then. The release point still looks pretty solid though. Which is why you don't see much knocked down at the line ( so far, I would suspect).
But having a decent release point that has height, while you mention the ball is held low, combined with the elbow drop and slight 'windmill' movement really speaks to the extended delivery.
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Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Look how well trained we all are with the "have a lot of faith in" category. I'm right there with you and I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
The question that has unfolded is how well will the windmill movement hold up in this league? Can't say until we see more. If he ever faces 1st units, let's hope his fast twitchies keep him from looking like a Sloth in the wrong zoo...
Sometimes you gotta leave a guy with an awkward delivery Kosar had alone. Having said that, when he had shoulder and elbow injuries later on in the career that delivery/release started getting dangerously close to MLB Pitcher Kent Tekulve stuff.
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Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Look how well trained we all are with the "have a lot of faith in" category. I'm right there with you and I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
The question that has unfolded is how well will the windmill movement hold up in this league? Can't say until we see more. If he ever faces 1st units, let's hope his fast twitchies keep him from looking like a Sloth in the wrong zoo...
Sometimes you gotta leave a guy with an awkward delivery Kosar had alone. Having said that, when he had shoulder and elbow injuries later on in the career that delivery/release started getting dangerously close to MLB Pitcher Kent Tekulve stuff.
I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
I read his bio on the team site. Ashton Grant (clevelandbrowns.com)
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I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
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Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
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- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
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Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
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I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
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I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
Pretty vanilla. I guess that's what ya do in preseason.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
I saw somewhere where he was carted off the field.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
Wow! First and foremost, look at that freakin clean pocket Mond had to throw out of. Next, great description of the coverages forming anywhere from the flats to the MLB getting to the hook zone the RB was heading toward to manipulating the Safety away to the hash. Really cool to see the view from above making it easy to see the anatomy of the route unfold within the moving parts of the coverage. I'm glad @orion reminded you we were looking forward to seeing these from overheads with your breakdowns. Thank you for the time you put into this and the knowledge you shared on both sides of the ball. Great stuff!
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Pretty vanilla. I guess that's what ya do in preseason.
I saw somewhere where he was carted off the field.
That's a damn shame. He was playing pretty alright too.
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