The 2023 season film studies. Thread of questions and answers.
-
Before I wrap up Dewand and get to the 3rd part of Ceddy, naturally I got a few texts from a couple people telling me how good Baker looked in Tampa. Now that he's with a team that has receivers and "believes in him", (whatever the fuck that actually means) he'll somehow flourish.
It's like a breakup where you know there's something wrong with the other person, then you see them with someone else who says said ex is just great; but eventually you know the ugly side of that person manifests itself and they'll continue doing the same shit over and over, just to someone new. Only a matter of time.
That's Baker.
Watched all of his snaps. Counted 2 good reads, and then this gem of a misfire which was just SO familiar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mid field on 2nd and short is a classic down and distance to push the ball downfield.
Under center, 21 personnel in ACE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong fake, linebackers get sucked up and the underneath coverage is non-existent. Sell your action and finish your drop. So far, so good.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Front side post, backside deep over = Yankee.
- Baker comes up, quality wall in front of him with plenty of space to launch.
- Locates and reads single high safety. He's leveraged more towards the boundary hash, but nothing crazy.
- Landmark throw. Read single high, throw single high. If it's cover 1 (which it is) you're throwing at the boundary hash to try and get YAC. If the MFS is in zone replace and steps down to take the deep over, then you end up throwing the post behind him. Obvious exceptions for elite corners. You can still beat a zone replacement, depending on the DB's depth and recovery drive. This is why processing these things so fast is crucial. That deep over is still viable against a cover 3.
- Either way, the MFS is WAY high, so your eyes can peep the boundary corner and confirm clear.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bakers eyes, even if he's decided to hit his outlet, still HAVE to cross the alley where the corner would have been. This should have been a giant red flag to put this ball on the deep over from field to boundary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Instead he Brady Quinn's the shit out of this and takes the TE leak as his check down. Which gets lit up as the ball arrives.
- WR on the deep over is looking back expecting the ball, because he knows where the ball should be going - HIM.
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
And HERE.... with the Brownies. A play that I still maintain was the one that doomed his tenure in CLE. After this turnover, the front office had seen all they needed to see and were set to move on from Mayfield.
Page 35
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
MIN is currently sitting -6.5 week 1 against Tampa. If the Vikes defense looks any better than what they showed last season, I'll be in on taking them to win opening day on the strength of turnover margin.
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
-
Ya know what me & Flugal would like to see? What the receiver routes looks like. Is there method to the madness? Is it, you go long, you go short? Does it look like receivers react to the end of their routes with 'Help the QB', or stand there at the end of their routes?
Yeah, I'll give you a good bit of that when I get to Tillman.
@tiamat63 well done sir !
2 of Hudson's false start kicks, were easy calls from my recliner. but, I'm not recalling Hudson cheating the start playing Right Tackle? something to watch for ? Thanks !
I'll give that another going over. I specifically targeted his time at LT because I know this Front Office will be weighing the $ worth re-signing Jed after this season. So any player they feel developed there as an equal to him is either a bargaining chip or just further reason to let him walk.
Speaking of RT, I'm about wrapped up with Dawand so that's on deck.
-
If you follow anything I do on this board, you'll know this is familiar because it's the same mistakes Baker made with the Rams, which I broke down here.
Still the same Baker, still the same mistakes. Struggling to consistently drive the ball downfield between the numbers while not spinning turnover worthy throws. And we're in, count em', start of year SIX.
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
When are you going to join the Dark Side and become a Baker/Tampa Bay fan anyhow? Good knowledgeable company there ya know.??
If the Bucs bring the A-train himself out of retirement, I'll consider it. ?
you know something ? unless i missed it I didnt see a damn thing about him vs the commanders
Went to start working on snaps for him against WSH and, same like last year, NFL+ is in pre-season form. Half the videos skip around with plays in random order, some games listed as 'uploaded' but I can't view, etc etc. Multi-Billion dollar enterprise and their film base is trash. I'll get back to you on that.
-
Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
-
Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
-
Can't coach that play-action fake any better..
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
-
I'll have to give that a go over later, I'm trying to finish Tillman and DTR with that backside slant he threw at the same time.
Don't suppose he had any commentary on DTR's throwing motion? It just comes across as a bit... elongated, IMHO. Almost like an exaggerated delivery at times.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
It's a full on windup... He holds the ball low, then drops the ball even lower before bringing it up to throw.
It needs tweaking. He needs to hold the ball up around his shoulder and fire from that position. He's going to allow DBs the ability to read the play if he doesn't fix this, and DLinemen to knock the ball free on sacks.
Ok so I'm not the only one then. The release point still looks pretty solid though. Which is why you don't see much knocked down at the line ( so far, I would suspect).
But having a decent release point that has height, while you mention the ball is held low, combined with the elbow drop and slight 'windmill' movement really speaks to the extended delivery.
-
Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Look how well trained we all are with the "have a lot of faith in" category. I'm right there with you and I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
The question that has unfolded is how well will the windmill movement hold up in this league? Can't say until we see more. If he ever faces 1st units, let's hope his fast twitchies keep him from looking like a Sloth in the wrong zoo...
Sometimes you gotta leave a guy with an awkward delivery Kosar had alone. Having said that, when he had shoulder and elbow injuries later on in the career that delivery/release started getting dangerously close to MLB Pitcher Kent Tekulve stuff.
-
Ya know, I haven't studied DT-R's motion. Now I'm curious. And I don't have a lot of faith in our QB coach, Ashton Grant.
Look how well trained we all are with the "have a lot of faith in" category. I'm right there with you and I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
The question that has unfolded is how well will the windmill movement hold up in this league? Can't say until we see more. If he ever faces 1st units, let's hope his fast twitchies keep him from looking like a Sloth in the wrong zoo...
Sometimes you gotta leave a guy with an awkward delivery Kosar had alone. Having said that, when he had shoulder and elbow injuries later on in the career that delivery/release started getting dangerously close to MLB Pitcher Kent Tekulve stuff.
I don't know anything about our QB Coach.
I read his bio on the team site. Ashton Grant (clevelandbrowns.com)
-
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
-
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
Pretty vanilla. I guess that's what ya do in preseason.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
I saw somewhere where he was carted off the field.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
I believe it was @orion that asked about route designs? There's a lot to unpack, even in a simple design (great song) without having the added benefit of this being a video. So here goes, along with the information in the screenshot I'll do my best to bullet point each frame.
- UC, 11 personnel and just past midfield. It's a pretty great time to push the ball downfield on play action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball action, 7 step drop. Mond starts his progression to the field. Please keep in mind I'm not in their coaching rooms so this is an educated case based on everything I can think of football wise, from A to Z. Otherwise, at least the beginning of the progression, would be more concrete from me. My first belief on why boils down to a few reasons...
- The linebacker alignment pre-snap. SAM from the previous frame is inside the hashes just floating over the RA gap. (LA gap if you're defense) this means anything that breaks horizontal, if it isn't picked up by a cloud CB or the safety coming down, means the LB has to haul ass to recover. This isn't including him biting hard on a ball action fake to freeze him. Simply put, he's in the worst place of all the underneath coverage to recover to your outlet to that side of the field. So if the #1 doesn't hold true, and that SAM has your #2 in coverage, then your eyes, shoulders and hips are already to that side of the field ready to throw.
- This is a mirror concept, means the same types of routes on both sides of the field. So it becomes dealers choice on where your eyes start, to my knowledge.
- Reads go deep to short, because route structure and pass pro go hand in hand. If I want to drive the ball downfield, then I need more time. So a 5 to 7 step drop off play action means I'm getting structures like Yankee, Mills, Sail, etc etc that push the ball further vertically. If I'm in empty, then my reads are still deep to short, but the designs of the corresponding routes are based, again, off said protection. So instead of looking to push the ball 15-20 yards, my 'deep' ends up being 8-10. Which is why empty sets invite the quicker passing game. This is all incredibly general and somewhat vague. Remember Bill Murray, guidelines more than rules.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- See's both the CB high and outside, but he see's the safety driving at the #1. Now it's a terrible play by the DB, he's trying to work over top of the #1 but shouldn't be. Because he's going to cause an absolute traffic jam there. Either way, there's a ton happening in that space and Mond doesn't feel comfortable taking that deep curl. He might also be thinking that if he gets this ball out to the #2, that DB is driving hard down at him and might have a kill shot. Plus the WR is breaking on the CB's leverage (outside) so putting this ball to his inside shoulder is dicey. It's an incredibly muddled read. I can't say I blame him for being decisive and just getting his eyes the fuck out of there. This is where you have to understand your protection and that internal clock counting down. If not for the ball action and the 2 fast, 2 delay pattern, you're not as comfortable coming from #1 field ALL the way back to your #1 boundary.
- At the bottom you get something of the opposite. Boundary safety is rotating to the hash, CB is still high and outside. The outlet #2 on the chip and leak is coming free.
- By the way, keep Ced in mind this whole time. He started outside the numbers, he's now pushed 2 yards positive and just inside numbers driving upfield. He's seeing the safety rotate away from him, so this is him quietly working to a little more space.
====================================================================================================
- So Mond bails on that side. Remember it's the same route structure either way, so as he comes left, he see's the boundary safety rotation and the position of the MLB.
-This is where QB's and WR's have to be on the absolute same page. If you see and interpret things the same, you're golden. If you don't, then you run into some nasty misfires. While this is happening, Ced has done enough to get his depth. Every route has a certain 'target depth' (my words) but the change in said depth comes on what you read post-snap. You'll see CT3 is a couple yards or so past the corresponding #1 to the field side. He's able to get more out of this route because of the free release and the lack of traffic. He also knows he's breaking away from the CB, under the S and as far away from either underneath defender as he can.
- The field safety that was driving through/over top the field #1 is late to his assignment, doesn't matter because Mond checked out of that side. So Kellen needs to know if the boundary safety also picking up the #2? Nope, he's rotating away and that's good. The boundary CB is still high and outside, MLB is on the hash. So as long as the boundary curl/flat is low and wide enough, the lane opens itself up. This is taking in about 3 to 4 bits of crucial information and processing them at the same time. Thinking, but processing so fast your internal voice can't even keep up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this something I spoke about watching our previous two QB's against the Pats. Defensive coaches that love making QB's play patient by how they prefer their defenders to drop. Credit to the Jets coaching staff, by the way. Their LB's are VERY disciplined and don't step down hard on ball action. They do a great job reading keys, OL movement/sets and situational awareness. They're a defense plenty content with you throwing under and aggressively coming down to limit YAC.
That said, Kellen did a solid job on this read and throw. Because his motion and delivery are 3/4 over by the time CT hits his plant and pivot step. Because of that, you can thread passes between defenders who are leveraging themselves in such a way to limit deeper throws.
At any point in the below frame, Mond has 2 underneath options he could have hit for 5-6 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned Tillman's ability to go from start to stop in a hurry. Running a 4.5 isn't special, but when you can throttle down at 6'3 the way he can, it gives you a weapon that your natural speed does not. His ability to separate his eyes from the rest of his body is also fantastic. His eyes are around anticipating the ball first, then his shoulders and hips come with it. All while maintaining outstanding balance. That's high(er) level stuff. So many young WR's get their heads around only with their shoulders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While it isn't much, this is CT3 coming back to the ball with arm extension and a little hop from this back foot. Ball is on the way, with some heat and well on time, so you don't want to run back down the route stem as a WR and negate your gain through the air. But you still have to attack the skin and use your catch radius.
It's a pretty basic mirrored curl/flat combo. We gave Jacoby a lot of those to make his life easy(ier). It's a standard 2 man route and throw, but even with how common place it is, I'm hoping this gives a better idea at how detailed even these simpler types of throws can be. There's a reason great NFL QB's make the money they do and are the most valuable position in all of sports.
I have another specifically on Ceddy coming up. But a couple things I need to say first.
- Forbes is playing better than I expected
- Will Mcdonald is legit. In this pre-season, the Browns will have faced arguably 3 of the top 5 defensive fronts in all of football. No joke, the Jets are real and facing them regular season is going to suck. I genuinely don't think people realize how NASTY the AFC East as a whole might be.
- Can't speak highly enough about what limited things I've seen from Tillman. The subtle physical play in his routes is really good.
Wow! First and foremost, look at that freakin clean pocket Mond had to throw out of. Next, great description of the coverages forming anywhere from the flats to the MLB getting to the hook zone the RB was heading toward to manipulating the Safety away to the hash. Really cool to see the view from above making it easy to see the anatomy of the route unfold within the moving parts of the coverage. I'm glad @orion reminded you we were looking forward to seeing these from overheads with your breakdowns. Thank you for the time you put into this and the knowledge you shared on both sides of the ball. Great stuff!
-
-
Pretty vanilla. I guess that's what ya do in preseason.
I saw somewhere where he was carted off the field.
That's a damn shame. He was playing pretty alright too.
-
When I spoke about Ced getting separation with his gifts, I mean both the obvious physical but the subtle moves as well. He doesn't have an elite set of wheels, but that doesn't mean he can't create space off a DB with them either. He just has to do it in a different way - His ability to plant his foot, sink he weight and decelerate is top tier.
So when you play that boundary X, your talent to do that and travel back down DB's stemming top-down is far too valuable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The points in the pics pretty much say it all, but I'll bullet point.
- The upper body and lower body separation/balance is superb. Ced consistently has eyes that work well in coordination, but also independently, of the rest of his frame. Seeing a young WR working eyes, head, shoulders back around to his QB while his feet finish their work and his hips flip is shit you strive to help coach into your pass catchers.
- CT3's ability to play strong, and his ability to prevent clean DB contact at the line helps to compensate for the lack of elite first step. Getting a corners hands off of you and forcing them to risk contact later down the route (in a contact averse NFL) is a weapon for every receiver. Not only does it help you get into the pattern faster, but you now threaten certain CB techniques like those who would play inside eye shade and try to ride contact outside/upfield while using the sidelines as the extra defender.
- The recognition in seeing the CB's balance and travel issues was fantastic. But so was the method to shed contact. Ced didn't over extend his arms, which likely draws a flag. Much like an OL keeping their hands up high and tight, rolling your shoulder into and off a CB in this case is a vet saavy move. You don't want to stretch your arms out wide, looking like the Predator challenging Arnold to a fight.
- Playing that boundary X means you have a lack of directions in terms of route options. So while eventually you'll have to win downfield on 50/50 throws, the ability to high point a ball is one thing, but then to have this in the bag as well, the talent to work back down the route stem with limited space, basically is what makes the position hum. Look no further than Larry Fitzgerald as the best example.
- Tillman blocks his ass off outside. Really not much more to say, other than you appreciate his hustle and willingness to piss of DB's by doing that.
Haven't even had a chance to move onto WSH film yet, but these little things really endear you to your younger players. This, to me anyway, is a young player having a flash moment without even producing a TD or something like a huge gain. Because this is substance over style, steak over sizzle, good foundation for a well built house, etc etc sort of material. I'm sure there are those who were critical of this pick thinking, why a WR4/5 in the 3rd round? But I contend he'll be called on to be a contributor along with starting minutes MUCH sooner, rather than later.
-
Once again, NFL+ is in pre-season form. The Browns all-22 from weeks 1 and 2 isn't loading, so I'm watching condensed replays against the Iggles. Some thoughts.
- John Kelly #2 to start the season and that's fine by me. That fumble on the 3 hurts, but to my knowledge fumble issues aren't a concern with him previously?
- #2 Oline held up about as well as you could ask for facing PHI's #1 Dline.
- DTR has poise and a willingness to stand in and deliver. But he needs to work on his pocket acumen at times as well. I get facing the birds #1's was stressful, but when you worked them down to the #2's on an extended opening drive (bravo by the way) there were several clean interior reps that you have to work on stepping up into. If not, you're going to continue to stress your protection on the outside.
- Speaking of DTR, that flag on the 4th and 1 keep was bullshit. I'm sorry, defense is my first love and this is football. DTR started his side WAY too late, and this QB's are getting away with this nonsense knowing they'll draw laundry. Dropping your hips at the very last possible second while defenders are already in their breakdown to tackle, as you see in the below, has no place in this sport. The DB (#26) was eyes up, shoulders flat and going in for a great form hit at the waist until DTR essentially trying playing a game of limbo underneath both of them. The flag ended up being on Dean for a shoulder to the head, but he again was in a place to make a solid hit on a ball carrier until the attempted slide into 2nd base. QB's either have to declare early in advance of contact, or learn to fucking live with it.
I am a passionate devotee of the game of football above ALL else in fanhood. This garbage needs to stop and be put back on the offense. There are far too many instances of bad offense (I'm looking at you, Kirk Cousins) punishing smart defense. I know it won't happen, but it shouldn't draw a flag either. You can't create the contact then bitch for the 15 like a child.
- Diabate with the safety was hot. I love the instinct being put in this LB's to not be afraid to read clear, then trigger downhill. But I'd caution everyone in getting ahead of themselves. As vanilla as the defenses are in pre-season, so are the offenses. I remember watching a good bit of him after the draft ended and I understood why he ended up in the position that he was. I can't speak to the coaching at UF or Utah, but the mentals weren't there all the time on film. So I'm happy he got the tackle, it was good form and direct, but I'm not penciling him into a starting role. That said, it's always great to see young players fighting for a job making splash plays like that.
- Dawand absolutely handled Nolan Smith.
- Mo Hurst solidified he has a place on this roster. I still think we keep 5 IDL. Nice to see he's regaining some form.
- McGuire needs to work on keeping his damn head up. His eyes are dropping and he's getting lost inside at times. While he's at it, keep working those hands and finding your way to the ball carrier.
- DB's, for the most part, did a solid job getting off blocks against bubbles and RPO's to help limit YAC. Hickman with another pick, which is outstanding, but he missed two open field tackles that should have been locks.
- The subtle changes up front are interesting. Our shade is playing more of a 2i tech now and the dline has gone from structures based on Over calls (3tech to the called strength) to more Under looks (3tech weakside) As a result, you're forcing some Olines into more uncomfortable double situations in zone too calls where they're late getting from the combo block to the 2nd level before LB's can get into gaps on their run fit. Also the IDL, both individually and as a whole, is playing much better. Which I'd suspect is the greater difference in all this.
There are some Caveats to this though.
* We still tend to play more Over looks against offenses showing YY* (Two inline TE sets) This is a great example.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* We like Over against "12" personnel* Note, this is actually 2 TE's that were in YY, so this is 21 with a motion to having a TE as the upfield lead.
------------------------------------------------------------------
*We like under against 11 personnel from under center*
For a variety of reasons, I'm sure. The biggest one's being how our IDL talents match up with their roles vs the offensive personnel. Either way, it's clear this is where Schwartz tends to outshine Joe Woods being a little less rigid in his calls. On the flip side, it's still pre-season and the DL room is not what it was even 6 months ago.
- The double move by Tillman was outstanding. 3rd step in, he plants and drives positive against off man coverage. Enough the CB bites and starts to drive down. The biggest, yet most subtle selling point was getting his head back to the QB though. See below....
In off man you're looking at hips as a CB, which is why it's so dicey against double moves. But getting the head back to the QB is a used car salesman worthy show.
What's even better was how tight the footwork was. 3 step in, positive drive... on the 3rd step into the slant, your 2nd break back vertical and out. (sluggo) See below...
Only two little downsides from making this almost a perfect play was DTR drifting back a bit from pressure that wasn't there, so the fall floated late a touch. And Tillman not taking this a bit more towards the sidelines, helping to protect himself more against the safety. Still, can't argue with results from two mid round rookies, it was a great connection.
So far that's all I've got. But our 2's and 3's showed up pretty damn good against a Super Bowl team's 2's and 3's. It's often an overlooked thing, but constantly striving to turn over and improve the middle and bottom of your roster in a 17 game season is so incredibly important for the grind that is a full NFL season. I appreciate the effort Young Berry and this front office have put forward trying to do just that.
-
Just taking in the Chiefs - Lions game and seeing how Coach Spaggs still gets it done, while I wait for the Browns All-22 to be posted. I'm not shy in gushing over how Mad Scientist his pressure designs can get, and this was a little twist that caught me off guard. I had to look at it twice.
Fairly straight forward looking like it'll be a boundary pressure over the YY. But then the SAM starts walking into the box from his overhang spot on the #2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The initial look is a zero pressure.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
But then the Nose, Nnadi drops over into a shallow weak look looking for a drag.
At it's most "shell", it's a cover 2 $AM pressure, but behind it you have match 2 trap to the field and a "straight' cover 2 to boundary.
The unexpected drop of your 1tech is just catches you incredibly off guard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this frame, because Goff correctly read the CB falling off onto the out, he has to hold onto the ball another half second for the #1 to clear and push to the '7'.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The additional time was all that was needed to force the ball to come out off target.
The structure behind this coverage is incredibly simple when you look at it the second time. But understanding it once, and in real time, made me blink. I can only imagine what it was like for an NFL QB. The only way you get prepared for stuff like this is extensive film work and mental reps to understand the Chiefs defensive tendencies. They love dollar store brands that they dress up to make look fancy. I know the Lions won, but moving forward, young athletic TE's will absolutely devastate this coverage rotations from similar YY looks if the Chiefs defense draws them.
God willing the Browns play the Chiefs in a significant post season match, I'd expect the Coaching staff and assistants to dive into every bit of footage they can. These week 1 looks would help to give them clues on how to best get Njoku involved early and often. He's exactly the type of pass catcher you'd want here.
-
Speaking of TEs, l heard on the radio broadcast Stefanski rolled with a few 3 TE sets during the game. That was encouraging to hear because he does neat and interesting things with TEs.
I tend to think he likes versatility in the position too and at times has those guys do fullback-y type stuff.
If you get the chance, how’d all that look to ya? It was good to see Njoku get a few solid gainers and the TD from Bryant, but l like the nitty gritty on how those guys get involved in the blocking scheme too and curious how you think they held up?
-
Speaking of TEs, l heard on the radio broadcast Stefanski rolled with a few 3 TE sets during the game. That was encouraging to hear because he does neat and interesting things with TEs.
I tend to think he likes versatility in the position too and at times has those guys do fullback-y type stuff.
If you get the chance, how’d all that look to ya? It was good to see Njoku get a few solid gainers and the TD from Bryant, but l like the nitty gritty on how those guys get involved in the blocking scheme too and curious how you think they held up?
Speaking of TEs, l heard on the radio broadcast Stefanski rolled with a few 3 TE sets during the game. That was encouraging to hear because he does neat and interesting things with TEs.
I tend to think he likes versatility in the position too and at times has those guys do fullback-y type stuff.
If you get the chance, how’d all that look to ya? It was good to see Njoku get a few solid gainers and the TD from Bryant, but l like the nitty gritty on how those guys get involved in the blocking scheme too and curious how you think they held up?
I specifically remember two different plays, one on a pin and pull, the other what looked like a simple iso - where Njoku really did a great job on his assignment.
He has come a long way from his first 2 seasons where he was an absolute liability as a blocker.
I'll have more details on how the TEs looked later when I get to go over the film.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login