Browns cut's

gumby73

@orion said:

Too bad for Watkins. But disappearing in the final game didn't help him. Perhaps he can get to the PS.

Most 11 on 11 camp video's, were not allowed during camp practices. But with all the injured WR personal at camp(Coop/Grant/Schwartz/Goodwin/Darden) You'd have to certainly hope the coaching staff saw Watkins against Ward/Newsome/Emerson at sometime... I can only recall preseason games where Watkins was covered by back-up corners. The Eagles, 2 day inter squad might have been Watkins toughest days? Don't recall him doing much.

Watkins is not gifted with the best shake nor speed.. But damn, he gets open & caught everything that touched his hands all camp/pre-season

Man! You just hope the staff got this call right!

Unsympathetic

@gumby73 said:

is not gifted with the best shake nor speed.. But damn, he gets open & caught everything that touched his hands

So he's a less athletic Bell? I'm just happy the WR room is 6 deep this season, can't remember the last time

ballpeen

@tiamat63 said:

I'm not one to revel in another man losing his job, but how in the hell Jordan Elliot survived the first and second round of cuts is just beyond me?

I agree. All I can figure is Schwartz sees something in him or Berry has had a team or two sniffing around and he thinks he can trade him for something.

ballpeen

@gumby73 said:

Most 11 on 11 camp video's, were not allowed during camp practices. But with all the injured WR personal at camp(Coop/Grant/Schwartz/Goodwin/Darden) You'd have to certainly hope the coaching staff saw Watkins against Ward/Newsome/Emerson at sometime... I can only recall preseason games where Watkins was covered by back-up corners. The Eagles, 2 day inter squad might have been Watkins toughest days? Don't recall him doing much.

Watkins is not gifted with the best shake nor speed.. But damn, he gets open & caught everything that touched his hands all camp/pre-season

Man! You just hope the staff got this call right!

Tough calls have to be made. Goodwin brings the speed a team likes to have to help stretch things on the vertical. In the end I don't think it was Goodwin or any of the other receivers who bounced Watkins off the 53. I think it was Diabate or Hickman. Probably more Hickman. Diabate got a pretty sizeable signing bonus to sign with us as a UDFA. I think it was 5th round money. In the end both of those guys will be able to make immediate contributions on special teams for sure and possibly the D as a whole. Both of those areas needed more help than the WR room did. At best Watkins was only going to see very limited action this season. I also think the teams feels that Watkins has the best chance to clear waivers. The guy is already 25 which is nearing that barrier age of 30 for wide receivers.

We have to remember, our philosophy, or roster strategy has changed. Gone are the days where projecting guys 2-3 years down the road have taken a back seat to how can a player help todays team? That's what happens when you establish a pretty solid roster and are looking at winning today more than developing players for the future.

TexasAg1969

@tiamat63 said:

Seemingly every season Browns fans, really most NFL fans for that matter, get obsessed with a player who has a good pre-season. The overwhelming majority of the time that player ends up going on to do very little. I liked the kid, it's entirely possible he clears waivers. If so, I'd be content using a protected practice squad spot on him.

Just out of curiosity (and laziness), how many "protected" PS spots are there?

tiamat63

@texasag1969 said:

Just out of curiosity (and laziness), how many "protected" PS spots are there?

4?!?! Uno moment.

Yeah Google says 4.

Orion

@tiamat63 said:

Yeah Google says 4.

Ask Google how we know who's protected and who isn't.

Flugel

@ballpeen said:

Tough calls have to be made. Goodwin brings the speed a team likes to have to help stretch things on the vertical. In the end I don't think it was Goodwin or any of the other receivers who bounced Watkins off the 53. I think it was Diabate or Hickman. Probably more Hickman. Diabate got a pretty sizeable signing bonus to sign with us as a UDFA. I think it was 5th round money. In the end both of those guys will be able to make immediate contributions on special teams for sure and possibly the D as a whole. Both of those areas needed more help than the WR room did. At best Watkins was only going to see very limited action this season. I also think the teams feels that Watkins has the best chance to clear waivers. The guy is already 25 which is nearing that barrier age of 30 for wide receivers.

We have to remember, our philosophy, or roster strategy has changed. Gone are the days where projecting guys 2-3 years down the road have taken a back seat to how can a player help todays team? That's what happens when you establish a pretty solid roster and are looking at winning today more than developing players for the future.

Those are some good points you made. I still think the Browns probably had a pre-set volume of WRs they wanted to keep (but alter for the reasons you noted). I like Goodwin's speed and all; but his usage the last 3 years he played seems a little limited to me per stats copied and pasted below. 2 of the last 3 years he only scored 1 TD and had a longest reception of 38 yards. I don't know how fast Watkins is; but he impressed a lot of us every time we saw him play. The job is to get open and catch the ball - or catch the ball when covered well. Watkins looked like he did all that extremely well when given the opportunities. Schwartz often ran himself into coverage when he was open or he dropped the ball when he remained open. The Browns kept him around for 3 years while nothing about him jumped off the screen that said "THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER." Please give me a WR like Brian Brennan over someone that can just run fast. Maybe they're thinking David Bell can develop into something like that. We shall see...

Year Year	Team Team	REC Total receptions	YDS Receiving yards	AVG Receiving yards per reception	LNG Longest reception	TD Receiving touchdowns	YDS Rushing yards	AVG Average yards per carry

2022	Seahawks	27	387	14.3	38	4	5	2.5

2021	Bears	20	313	15.7	50	1	-1	-0.5

2019	49ers	12	186	15.5	38	1	15	15.0

tiamat63

@orion said:

Ask Google how we know who's protected and who isn't.

Google says to look for the guys with a '!' above their heads.

.... I think they might be giving me instructions on how to play Zelda?

ballpeen

The practice squad rules below, as there seems to be some confusion. How and when a team has to designate the 4 protected players in unknown, but it doesn't really matter as long as the team and league knows.

NFL practice squad salaries: Minimum salary, eligibility rules & more to know for 2023 (msn.com)

ballpeen

@tiamat63 said:

Google says to look for the guys with a '!' above their heads.

.... I think they might be giving me instructions on how to play Zelda?

LOl....and in the end, does it really matter if we know? I've never had someone from the FO call to ask me if I agreed or approved.

Just saying...

ballpeen

@flugel said:

Those are some good points you made. I still think the Browns probably had a pre-set volume of WRs they wanted to keep (but alter for the reasons you noted). I like Goodwin's speed and all; but his usage the last 3 years he played seems a little limited to me per stats copied and pasted below. 2 of the last 3 years he only scored 1 TD and had a longest reception of 38 yards. I don't know how fast Watkins is; but he impressed a lot of us every time we saw him play. The job is to get open and catch the ball - or catch the ball when covered well. Watkins looked like he did all that extremely well when given the opportunities. Schwartz often ran himself into coverage when he was open or he dropped the ball when he remained open. The Browns kept him around for 3 years while nothing about him jumped off the screen that said "THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER." Please give me a WR like Brian Brennan over someone that can just run fast. Maybe they're thinking David Bell can develop into something like that. We shall see...

Year
Year

Team
Team

REC
Total receptions

YDS
Receiving yards

AVG
Receiving yards per reception

LNG
Longest reception

TD
Receiving touchdowns

YDS
Rushing yards

AVG
Average yards per carry

2022

Seahawks

27

387

14.3

38

4

5

2.5

2021

Bears

20

313

15.7

50

1

-1

-0.5

2019

49ers

12

186

15.5

38

1

15

15.0

We really only kept Schwartz for 2 seasons. I don't count camps as seasons.

tiamat63

@ballpeen said:

LOl....and in the end, does it really matter if we know?

It doesn't, but it's interesting to speculate, though I'm sure it doesn't take much to discern who the 4 are.

@ballpeen said:

I've never had someone from the FO call to ask me if I agreed or approved.

Just saying...

I can only speak for myself when I say, I would much prefer they get into contact with me about personnel decisions. ?

ballpeen

@tiamat63 said:

It doesn't, but it's interesting to speculate, though I'm sure it doesn't take much to discern who the 4 are.

I can only speak for myself when I say, I would much prefer they get into contact with me about personnel decisions. ?

I get it. So would I.

You seem to be more in tune than I on such matters, but even if you were the man in charge, there would be multitudes of people thinking you know nothing..you remember Sgt Schultz don't you? LOL

In the end I just have to trust that even if the decisions don't work out, they were thought out and talked through. I like to think there is some sort of reasoning behind decisions and Berry isn't just throwing a dart at a list of names, picking the one he hits dead center.

tiamat63

@ballpeen said:

I get it. So would I.

You seem to be more in tune than I on such matters, but even if you were the man in charge, there would be multitudes of people thinking you know nothing..you remember Sgt Schultz don't you? LOL

In the end I just have to trust that even if the decisions don't work out, they were thought out and talked through. I like to think there is some sort of reasoning behind decisions and Berry isn't just throwing a dart at a list of names, picking the one he hits dead center.

Oh no, there is a process to this machine. On its face, football is a simple game that boils down to, as Lombardi once said - "blocking and tackling".

But The subtle intricacies and complexity that also co-exist beyond the surface of that comments is what makes this game the greatest of all.

Had to look up Sgt Shultz. I think you guys forget I'm half your age.

Edit: and yes, every front office have methods and chains to their decision making. Doesn't always mean it's good or right, of course. But at least there are gears turning.

ballpeen

@tiamat63 said:

Oh no, there is a process to this machine. On its face, football is a simple game that boils down to, as Lombardi once said - "blocking and tackling".

But The subtle intricacies and complexity that also co-exist beyond the surface of that comments is what makes this game the greatest of all.

Had to look up Sgt Shultz. I think you guys forget I'm half your age.

Edit: and yes, every front office have methods and chains to their decision making. Doesn't always mean it's good or right, of course. But at least there are gears turning.

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here. I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article. I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

nickers

@ballpeen said:

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here. I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article. I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

You you can always tell a persons age when they act like a "Know it all".. Then proceed to rub it in your face like some clever smart ass... Wheres a Capt Obvious meme when ya need one

tiamat63

@ballpeen said:

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here. I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article. I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

Bonanza and Gun Smoke, my good man. Had you cited those we would have been on the exact same page ?

SdBacker80

@flugel said:

Those are some good points you made. I still think the Browns probably had a pre-set volume of WRs they wanted to keep (but alter for the reasons you noted). I like Goodwin's speed and all; but his usage the last 3 years he played seems a little limited to me per stats copied and pasted below. 2 of the last 3 years he only scored 1 TD and had a longest reception of 38 yards. I don't know how fast Watkins is; but he impressed a lot of us every time we saw him play. The job is to get open and catch the ball - or catch the ball when covered well. Watkins looked like he did all that extremely well when given the opportunities. Schwartz often ran himself into coverage when he was open or he dropped the ball when he remained open. The Browns kept him around for 3 years while nothing about him jumped off the screen that said "THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER." Please give me a WR like Brian Brennan over someone that can just run fast. Maybe they're thinking David Bell can develop into something like that. We shall see...

Year
Year

Team
Team

REC
Total receptions

YDS
Receiving yards

AVG
Receiving yards per reception

LNG
Longest reception

TD
Receiving touchdowns

YDS
Rushing yards

AVG
Average yards per carry

2022

Seahawks

27

387

14.3

38

4

5

2.5

2021

Bears

20

313

15.7

50

1

-1

-0.5

2019

49ers

12

186

15.5

38

1

15

15.0

Goodwin is a veteran WR (that can hopefully stay healthy) and beat man coverage when he’s in the game. I can envision 8-10 times during the season - 1st Quarter send him long and make the safeties respect the entire field and think about something over their head during the course of the game. He’s a decoy with a different skill set than what we have and hopefully we are able to put something on tape so guys like Moore, DPJ and Bell can win underneath.

He was the contingency plan of Schwartz didn’t work out so this was some good planning on the FOs part.

If you go further back in the stat line his time in SF looks good. Looks like they took some deep play-action shots downfield with him

Flugel

@sdbacker80 said:

Goodwin is a veteran WR (that can hopefully stay healthy) and beat man coverage when he’s in the game. I can envision 8-10 times during the season - 1st Quarter send him long and make the safeties respect the entire field and think about something over their head during the course of the game. He’s a decoy with a different skill set than what we have and hopefully we are able to put something on tape so guys like Moore, DPJ and Bell can win underneath.

He was the contingency plan of Schwartz didn’t work out so this was some good planning on the FOs part.

If you go further back in the stat line his time in SF looks good. Looks like they took some deep play-action shots downfield with him

I like your points SdB80. The elephant in the room wants to remind us SF has a great offensive mind running the show that we're still awaiting in Cleveland. You can manipulate the Safeties - when you're Lindy Infante running the offense and calling the plays in Cleveland. We've seen it until the time Marty decided to keep Infante's playbook after he became a HC in GB. Marty's brother became the guy calling the plays without nearly the same understanding of purpose of the design. Next thing we know, the Browns were getting delay of game calls because this wasn't his world. We would learn the hard way that the reality was a lot worse than a seemingly good idea. Not only that, the Browns were in FG position for an easy 3 points with 1 or 2 timeouts left on MNF vrs Houston; and time expired in the 1st half on them. That expedited the feud between Marty and Modell. I don't want to get too far off base with that to the extent the discussion takes a different path. We also had Kyle Shanahan doing a nice job of manipulating the safeties even when he had a journeyman QB like Brian Hoyer throwing the ball.

Like most other years in Cleveland, guys we're excited to see - can get hurt and miss significant time. I'll start this off with I think Peoples-Jones is a fine deep threat. He's just awaiting the right QB to tap it more frequently. Having said that, what happens if our best all around WR (Cooper) that can run every route with precision gets hurt? Are we gonna be comfortable with a guy who's best routes are just deep straight ahead sprints all the time? Defenses are gonna blitz the crap out of this on the edge we're counting on Wills to protect. 2-3 bad things can happen when a QB needs more pocket time with a shaky blind side tackle: offensive holding or QB sacks or both. Hopefully, Wills has put in the work this off-season and this is just wasted blow-hard by me. Wouldn't be the 1st time. What I like about Watkins was his ability to run some of the different routes extremely well and punctuate that with catches. This young player seems like he's off to a great start - so I'm glad to see he was retained on our practice squad. It seems like he made more of an immediate positive impression on us than a guy I was excited we drafted last year - David Bell. I want to see another Brian Brennan here who we remember more than our deep threat Reggie Langhorne. Both important, but the beneficiary of stretching the D over the top made w/Langhorne made Brennan's consistency and reliability on 3rd downs an expectation. That's 1 thing about Goodwin's value over the top that I liked you pointing out above - we'll have some beneficiaries underneath.

Those were some of my worries from following a team that's trained us well to worry. The good news is I'm wrong with a Ralph Cramden caliber consistency in here...