Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson
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Depends on your definition of playmaker. Can DA "make plays"? Of course. He's made some unreal throws.
The definition of a playmaker involves consistency. That was my point in the lottery/investing analogy (maybe not the best). I don't get this notion of "I'd rather have a guy throw 3 picks and 3 td's than neither". I want a guy we can win some playoff games with.
I disagree with you and the one more poor game leash for Quinn. Mangini is more likely to give a fair amount of leash to Quinn to (glass half empty coming) hang himself. He's got to know and by naming Quinn the starter he's stated that he felt Quinn's ceiling was higher coming out of camp. (Implicit)
Sure, if Quinn flames out by mid season then maybe he goes back to DA. What's most likely to occur then? DA throws some amazing passes, demonstrates below average pocket mobility, misses wide open short passes, and makes some really horrendous INT's. (That's far more likely than those systemic problems suddenly disappearing.)
Net effect: we're looking for a QB if Quinn torpedos.
Stan, not sure where my investment in the outcome lies? Can you elaborate? I'm not following.
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Anyone noticed that now there are 3 different QB camps on the board. The pro DA guys are still pro DA. Most pro BQ guys are still pro BQ. But some have now formed the "We need a new QB camp". this could get interesting.
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Ate and Z, you guys are truly fascinating.
It took 2 games of the team looking bad to decide Quinn isn't the answer and that DA is, or at least, if he's not, he's a better "playmaker" who isn't a "bore" to watch.
Well, maybe you guys don't like "boring" things like building an offense, creating team chemistry, allowing player's to figure out their roles, etc. but that's what's happening right now.
And it would still have to happen with DA. In fact, you'd be two weeks behind the curve AGAIN.
This agitating for a change, ANY change, at QB at this point of the season is reckless and ultimately pointless. Now I understand why you guys love Lum so much; all you want is to see DA get in and sling it around and see what happens.
Strangely, you already know how that movie ends, so I'm baffled by the rush to see it again...
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Zombo said:
--Skippy, are we shutting down the site this week in honor of the second week anniversary of Quinn's heroic 4th quarter TD pass against the Vikes that pulled us within two touchdowns of tying up the game with 20 seconds still left to play?Actually, I thought this week we would all spend quiet time alone embracing that moment. I just bought a Brady Quinn action figure that has two blind sides, I thought i'd spent that moment with it.
It looks left, and then it looks left ... so cute.
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<<<The problem is he will miss easy throws that will kill a drive, or he'll play an entire game like he is in a fog and never gets his rhythm.>>>
That Cincy game 2 years ago was one of those games....5 picks, 2 for pick 6...and a playoff year ruined. Thats pretty big screw-up, if you ask me.
Anderson is not the guy... Quinn is looking horrible. I say go third string...what I dont want is another glimmer of hope from freak-o-foot in another losing season----where we are clearly not going to accomplish anything, except continued embarrassment as a franchise.
I was ticked all summer with this QB crap...and look what we got...crap. Maybe studdly Quinn would have been better off getting this team in JUNE instead of 3 seconds before kick-off week # 1. Another horrible decision from this team... I am beginning to think Mangini knew how shitty this team was and put the "Cleveland QB Bananza" on as a clear mis-direction from the awful truth---we suck.
They should re-name this team...the Cleveland QB Competitions or something...better yet, a reality show ... 'QB in C-town...if you dare !!!!'...2 to 3 to 4 starting QB's for 10 seasons...GIMMIE A FREAKIN BREAK !!!, thats like 30 to 40 QB's since our return....how freakin sad---even Sissynatti found "China Doll"-Palmer...atleast he can play the position.
No Anderson, No Quinn ...I'm more for forfeiting the rest of the season and drafting another QB... No winners in Cleveland...send golden boy packing...hes going to end up doing his college's TV broadcast like his mentor... Tim Couch.
Bermeck (its a Tim Couch kinda thread...isnt it ???)
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Aw, Stan and Z are in the midst of a mancrush.
Talk about cute.
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<<<The problem is he will miss easy throws that will kill a drive, or he'll play an entire game like he is in a fog and never gets his rhythm.>>>
That Cincy game 2 years ago was one of those games....5 picks, 2 for pick 6...and a playoff year ruined. Thats pretty big screw-up, if you ask me.
Anderson is not the guy... Quinn is looking horrible. I say go third string...what I dont want is another glimmer of hope from freak-o-foot in another losing season----where we are clearly not going to accomplish anything, except continued embarrassment as a franchise.
I was ticked all summer with this QB crap...and look what we got...crap. Maybe studdly Quinn would have been better off getting this team in JUNE instead of 3 seconds before kick-off week # 1. Another horrible decision from this team... I am beginning to think Mangini knew how shitty this team was and put the "Cleveland QB Bananza" on as a clear mis-direction from the awful truth---we suck.
They should re-name this team...the Cleveland QB Competitions or something...better yet, a reality show ... 'QB in C-town...if you dare !!!!'...2 to 3 to 4 starting QB's for 10 seasons...GIMMIE A FREAKIN BREAK !!!, thats like 30 to 40 QB's since our return....how freakin sad---even Sissynatti found "China Doll"-Palmer...atleast he can play the position.
No Anderson, No Quinn ...I'm more for forfeiting the rest of the season and drafting another QB... No winners in Cleveland...send golden boy packing...hes going to end up doing his college's TV broadcast like his mentor... Tim Couch.
Bermeck (its a Tim Couch kinda thread...isnt it ???)
That Cincy game 2 years ago was one of those games....5 picks, 2 for pick 6...
actually 4 picks. And none were returned for 6.
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That Cincy game 2 years ago was one of those games....5 picks, 2 for pick 6...
actually 4 picks. And none were returned for 6.
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Anyone noticed that now there are 3 different QB camps on the board. The pro DA guys are still pro DA. Most pro BQ guys are still pro BQ. But some have now formed the "We need a new QB camp". this could get interesting.
Anyone noticed that now there are 3 different QB camps on the board. The pro DA guys are still pro DA. Most pro BQ guys are still pro BQ. But some have now formed the "We need a new QB camp". this could get interesting.
One other, QB gurus who suddenly have nothing to say.
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Zombo said:
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
I get that.... you know this whole thing really falls on the Coach/GM/Office(whatever)... whats the point of all these summer camps, practices, you know...the offseason ???? Thats your "evaluation" time... clearly Quinn blows --- how or why he blows is open for discussion. I am frustated beyond beleif with these clowns. How many times can fans be emotionally crushed ?????
My Dad always said "...chicken sh** tasts like chicken sh**, no matter how much mayo you add to it" ... DA wont make a difference...it will make for some talking points and some discussion...but at the end of the day...he is just D. Anderson...and always will be.
Bermeck (lovin the 1999 vibe...cant wait until we get past our "break-in" coach/GM...so we can hire a winner....pffft)
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ok ok .... it led to 14 points...in basically a playoff game..... he sucks.... ok?
auctually, it was 17 points off-turnovers.... i guess...im sure all these QB experts on this board will tell me.
Bermeck (if selling giant shoes, Subway sandwiches, and sports drinks was the goal...our franchise is # 1 !!!! yipeeeee !!!)
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Ate and Z, you guys are truly fascinating.
It took 2 games of the team looking bad to decide Quinn isn't the answer and that DA is, or at least, if he's not, he's a better "playmaker" who isn't a "bore" to watch.
Well, maybe you guys don't like "boring" things like building an offense, creating team chemistry, allowing player's to figure out their roles, etc. but that's what's happening right now.
And it would still have to happen with DA. In fact, you'd be two weeks behind the curve AGAIN.
This agitating for a change, ANY change, at QB at this point of the season is reckless and ultimately pointless. Now I understand why you guys love Lum so much; all you want is to see DA get in and sling it around and see what happens.
Strangely, you already know how that movie ends, so I'm baffled by the rush to see it again...
Ate and Z, you guys are truly fascinating.
It took 2 games of the team looking bad to decide Quinn isn't the answer and that DA is, or at least, if he's not, he's a better "playmaker" who isn't a "bore" to watch.
Well, maybe you guys don't like "boring" things like building an offense, creating team chemistry, allowing player's to figure out their roles, etc. but that's what's happening right now.
And it would still have to happen with DA. In fact, you'd be two weeks behind the curve AGAIN.
This agitating for a change, ANY change, at QB at this point of the season is reckless and ultimately pointless. Now I understand why you guys love Lum so much; all you want is to see DA get in and sling it around and see what happens.
Strangely, you already know how that movie ends, so I'm baffled by the rush to see it again...
its not 2 games but 5 and 4 in a row with the same results and defenses.... The tape of playing tight is out now and Quinn's noodle arm has been exposed making us a one dimensional team.
I am not ready to concede this season because some fan base bought into the first round hype created by ND's media department and Charlie I can develop "nfl ready pro style" qbs from college.... How is that working out for Notre Dame? Anyone.... Anyone Bueller.... bueller....
All of these assumptions about Quinn ARE BASED ON COLLEGE HISTORY AND CHARLIE WEIS..... think about it.
This season is not over and our defense looks improved, jamal still has some gas and our oline is not as bad as you quinn excuse makers are trying to imply it is.
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Ate and Z, you guys are truly fascinating.
It took 2 games of the team looking bad to decide Quinn isn't the answer and that DA is, or at least, if he's not, he's a better "playmaker" who isn't a "bore" to watch.
Well, maybe you guys don't like "boring" things like building an offense, creating team chemistry, allowing player's to figure out their roles, etc. but that's what's happening right now.
And it would still have to happen with DA. In fact, you'd be two weeks behind the curve AGAIN.
This agitating for a change, ANY change, at QB at this point of the season is reckless and ultimately pointless. Now I understand why you guys love Lum so much; all you want is to see DA get in and sling it around and see what happens.
Strangely, you already know how that movie ends, so I'm baffled by the rush to see it again...
its not 2 games but 5 and 4 in a row with the same results and defenses.... The tape of playing tight is out now and Quinn's noodle arm has been exposed making us a one dimensional team.
I am not ready to concede this season because some fan base bought into the first round hype created by ND's media department and Charlie I can develop "nfl ready pro style" qbs from college.... How is that working out for Notre Dame? Anyone.... Anyone Bueller.... bueller....
All of these assumptions about Quinn ARE BASED ON COLLEGE HISTORY AND CHARLIE WEIS..... think about it.
This season is not over and our defense looks improved, jamal still has some gas and our oline is not as bad as you quinn excuse makers are trying to imply it is.
its not 2 games but 5 and 4 in a row with the same results and defenses.... The tape of playing tight is out now and Quinn's noodle arm has been exposed making us a one dimensional team.
This season is not over and our defense looks improved, jamal still has some gas and our oline is not as bad as you quinn excuse makers are trying to imply it is.
Boy, if it is arm strength, than JaMarcus Russell must have a pretty week arm too. Cause he is looking just like Quinn through 2 weeks.
Folks, Quinn has shown he has the arm to make all the throws. Arm strength is not the issue at QB. Not getting through reads quick enough, not trusting reads, wrong reads, WR not getting separation, poor protection from the right side of the line, and zero consistancy running the ball are the issue (note the # of issues that would be on Quinn). If the issue was arm strength, Quinn would never have won the job in camp.
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Anyone noticed that now there are 3 different QB camps on the board. The pro DA guys are still pro DA. Most pro BQ guys are still pro BQ. But some have now formed the "We need a new QB camp". this could get interesting.
Anyone noticed that now there are 3 different QB camps on the board. The pro DA guys are still pro DA. Most pro BQ guys are still pro BQ. But some have now formed the "We need a new QB camp". this could get interesting.
Im Pro Browns, QB's come and go especially around here.
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Don't you guys remember that Mangini told Lerner..." He can win with Quinn"....you know the reason he got hired....Romeo didn't play him for a reason...Savage Gave DA all that $ for a reason....2 more weeks of this crap tops!
Savage Gave DA all that $ for a reason....2 more weeks of this crap tops!
Yeah . . . . because Savage was such an idiot he thought that the Cowboys were going to steal Anderson away for a low first and third round pick and turn around and deal him. NFL execs are still laughing about that one.
Savage also drafted Charlie "first round talent in the third round" Frye (see Chris Redman) and Brady (I can't believe he fell in our lap at 22 for a mere mortgage of the franchise) Quinn (see Kyle Boller). Hey, why don't we trade down with the Ravens . . . they want that fat ass Gnata kid . . . Wimbley will still be on the board
:)!!! The idiots. They wouldn't know a cornerstone to a 3-4 defense if it bit them in the ass. Wait a minute? Who was the "safest" pick in the 2005 draft again? Travis Taylor? Oh, no, that was Braylon Edwards. Wait till we pair him with Travis Wilson!Face it, we've got three seasons of minimum of digging out of the hole Opie left . . . including working through the QB fiasco. Lerner better open up the damn vault if there is no salary cap next year . . . that's the only way to accelerate the re-build the cupboard's been left so bare.
You've got 11 million reasons to start Anderson that can go to improving this team. Better be damn sure Quinn isn't what he appears before you give him that 8th start.
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Sev, Mangini picked Quinn. Not the fan base.
Yell at him.
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Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
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its not 2 games but 5 and 4 in a row with the same results and defenses.... The tape of playing tight is out now and Quinn's noodle arm has been exposed making us a one dimensional team.
This season is not over and our defense looks improved, jamal still has some gas and our oline is not as bad as you quinn excuse makers are trying to imply it is.
Boy, if it is arm strength, than JaMarcus Russell must have a pretty week arm too. Cause he is looking just like Quinn through 2 weeks.
Folks, Quinn has shown he has the arm to make all the throws. Arm strength is not the issue at QB. Not getting through reads quick enough, not trusting reads, wrong reads, WR not getting separation, poor protection from the right side of the line, and zero consistancy running the ball are the issue (note the # of issues that would be on Quinn). If the issue was arm strength, Quinn would never have won the job in camp.
Masters said:
If the issue was arm strength, Quinn would never have won the job in camp.Not so sure about that... Mangini is playing the cards dealt to him. Quinn showed just enough off-season to win the coach's confidence....because, in reality, everyone knew pretty boy was going to have to get his shot. We traded for him and payed him alot of money...no matter who the coach is now...or tommorrow. At the time, the franchise was injected with some hope (heck our Quinn/Thomas draft was given all A's and A-'s)...but now, it doesnt look so good.
He sucks....but hes kinda cute and he has nice hair.
Bermeck (nice effort in Denver BQ....you aint got it !!!!)
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Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
Z- I'm glad to see you still have hope about this season- unfortunately, I don't. I took a long hard look at the replay of the game, and here's what I came up with. I'll have to agree with the Quinn bashers that BQ might not be the answer. He has a long way to go to get up to the elite qb drop + deliver the ball almost instantly category. I charted the number of times Quinn and Orton got seriously pressured yesterday, and to my surprise, Quinn overall actually got less heat than Orton. However, that doesn't take into account what's killing us- the times we have a defensive breakdown, it's for huge plays. In my book, Quinn gets the majority of the season to see if he can improve. If not, it's hello Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy next year. Got a feeling we're going to stink bad enough this year that one or the other will surely be there when we draft in '10. I doubt Mangini & crew are going to throw away their careers wasting yet another season to find out if Anderson will finally "get it". Unlike Jeff George and Vinnie Testaverde, Anderson wasn't a first round pick, so he might get one more shot towards the end of the season, if Quinn totally bombs.
On some of those Denver TD runs, there was a hole big enough to drive a truck through, and add in lousy tackling to boot. We're not going to win consistently until the run D gets fixed, and that's not going to happen this year. There's a glaring need for a mean-ass run stuffing LB, and Kam Wimbley ain't it. The secondary did an overall OK job, but they can't cover Stokley and Marshall all day, if the blitz (and unfortunately we still have to blitz to get pressure on the QB) doesn't get there in time.
Offensively, the o-line looked like crap. I'm not buying the run game looks lousy because teams are stuffing the box because Quinn can't throw the ball downfield. I didn't chart his throws in that regard, but IMHO BQ went 20+ yards plenty enough times to keep the D honest. You want bashing? Lewis isn't a feature back anymore. Period. On the rare occasions there were decent holes that a guy like Peterson would have broken for long gains, Lewis got stopped after 5-10 yards, because he's just too freaking slow. Where's our #2 wr, while were at it? It's Cribbs? Really?
Yes you Quinn backers remember this? Keep basing your projections for quinn from this guy.
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