Jameis Winston is a Brown
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You like drop back passers, guys who stay in the pocket because you think that makes them safer...
David Carr, Tim Couch and Bernie Kosar all fit that description.
Sure, drop back passers get hurt too. Brady missed a season, Rogers missed last season. Llamar Jackson missed a lot of a season by getting hurt while in the pocket...not running. But to me, having your QB running around....designing QB runs, etc....is adding a new level of injury danger to your most important guy in the organization. And there's always the mental / emotional aspect of the defense's mindset when a QB is running around embarrassing them. It makes the big fat guys want to smash the QB into pieces all the more. And let's face it, Watson is no big, burly guy. We had to play most of last season without him because he ran and took on tacklers.
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In fairness to Orion, your examples above don't work because two of them played behind the worst Olines in the NFL the last 25 years.
How about the most famous QB injury that happened in the pocket behind one of the best OLines in NFL history?
I'll take Joe Theismann's pulverized leg for $500, Alex...
How about the most famous QB injury that happened in the pocket behind one of the best OLines in NFL history?
I'll take Joe Theismann's pulverized leg for $500, Alex...
And while you're certainly right, there's a reason that injury is so well known. Next to Alex Smith, that sort of thing just doesn't happen.
I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place.
Indy with their young QB in AR15 is a prime example. That kid lead himself into contact he had no business being involved in, and wouldn't have been had he been ready to be starting NFL QB. But he wasn't, the Colts overdrafted him then rushed his play in risk of long term development and long term health.
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How about the most famous QB injury that happened in the pocket behind one of the best OLines in NFL history?
I'll take Joe Theismann's pulverized leg for $500, Alex...
And while you're certainly right, there's a reason that injury is so well known. Next to Alex Smith, that sort of thing just doesn't happen.
I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place.
Indy with their young QB in AR15 is a prime example. That kid lead himself into contact he had no business being involved in, and wouldn't have been had he been ready to be starting NFL QB. But he wasn't, the Colts overdrafted him then rushed his play in risk of long term development and long term health.
I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place.
Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
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I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place.
Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
You're not wrong, but the best athlete being your QB in high school has been a thing since I was a kid. It's only the last 20 years (well, I was still a kid then too) that its sort of 'trickled up'... in a manner of speak. Putting greater emphasis on athletic ability at the QB position.
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Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
A fucking men!
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I think the whole "safer scrambling vs in the pocket" is a bit overblown. The biggest issue between elite passers and pocket presence vs not is the ability to more efficiently move the ball in the air and avoid shots they had no business taking in the first place.
Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB.
Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland.
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Hold your proverbial horses there... I never said it is safer scrambling, and I do get what Orion is saying. My point is I can name quite a few non-running quarterbacks whose careers were riddled with injuries they received from not scrambling or running on designed plays.
And here's the thing: Offenses that feature Mobile quarterbacks are EVERYWHERE in high school and college football. There aren't many Joe Flacco's or Drew Bledsoe's anymore.
Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB.
Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland.
Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB.
Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland.
Hell, how many sacks did Roethlisberger get out of in the first half of his career against us?
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Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it.
Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks?
But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured.
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Here's the latest NFL body by Lasik from Crablegs:
2023 53.2% comp 264 yards 2 TD passes 3 INT 57.4 rating
2022 63.5% comp 868 yards 4 TD passes 5 INT 79.5 rating
We could be re-defining the question - Feeling crabby?
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Slight stretch here; but are any of Kurt Warner's 20 kids or so ready yet? Believe it or not, I was often reminded Dan Marino was very difficult to sack (and the quick release was only part of it). Brady wasn't easy to sack either. Bernie wasn't as easy to sack as he looked either. It's amazing what the combination of brain cells and vision can do for a QB.
Today, I'm thinking Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford are what's left representing old school pocket. I say that; but EVERY time Stafford seems to play Cleveland he pulls out this 3 times in a career Lamar Jacksonesque "you ain't sacking this." It seemed like it was only exclusive to Cleveland.
Hell, how many sacks did Roethlisberger get out of in the first half of his career against us?
Hell, how many sacks did Roethlisberger get out of in the first half of his career against us?
That's it - my coping mechanisms are fired!
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Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it.
Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks?
But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured.
But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it.
Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks?
But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured.
Ohio State was ready for his legs. What they weren't ready for was his passing precision. His pose after every back breaking throw was the bow and arrow representing the bulls eye he just hit. Same with Alabama. What did Ohio State and Alabama have in common? A multiplicity of 1st and 2nd round drafts on their defense.
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Look, I understand that a mobile QB is advantages over a non mobile QB (all else being equal). I had to watch John Elway keep us out of 3 super bowls. But Elway (& Steve Young) ran as a last resort. We've got a guy at QB who thinks he's Nick Chubb. He's gonna lower his shoulder and take a guy on and jump up and signal first down. And HE'S got something that Elway & Young didn't have, the ability to slide...and when you do that NOBODY CAN TOUCH YOU.
It just pisses the bageezuz out of me that our Quarter of a Billion dollar, 3 first round picks, most important person of the organization, Starting QB...gets himself hurt and out for the season because he's running around with the ball.
Now, Paul Depodesta would tell me, "But it's THAT athleticism that makes him WORTH the money and draft picks." To which I would tell Depo, "Then get me a backup QB that can lead us to a super bowl win because we're built to win now and I can't win a super bowl with your Athletic QB on injured reserve."
But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it.
Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks?
But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured.
But if he sets up in the pocket and gets his knee blown out like Carson Palmer did in a playoff game vs the Steelers, you are fine with it? Got it.
Did it "piss the bageezuz" out of you when Baker hurt his shoulder trying to tackle the defender he threw an interception to in 2021, or does this only apply to running quarterbacks?
But you are right, and we've gone over this numerous times, calling a run play/draw play with your quarterback down around your opponents ten yard line was not a smart call, and was just asking for him to get injured.
I'm pretty certain he doesn't outrush Josh Allen or ever even come close to it. Let's not pretend he's Michael Vick or Lamar Jackson either. Watson ran a 4.66 forty while Drew Lock ran a 4.69 if we want to put it in perspective.
I'd like to see if we can figure out how to use him the way Houston did. Here's his passing and rushing stats that split during the cut and paste; but you can still see the 1st 4 years were Houston and the last 2 were Cleveland
SEASON TEAM 2017 2018 2019 2020 2022 2023 Career GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG SACK RTG QBR 7 126 204 61.8 1,699 8.3 19 8 72 19 103.0 83.7 16 345 505 68.3 4,165 8.2 26 9 73 62 103.1 61.8 15 333 495 67.3 3,852 7.8 26 12 54 44 98.0 70.5 16 382 544 70.2 4,823 8.9 33 7 77 49 112.4 63.7 6 99 170 58.2 1,102 6.5 7 5 46 20 79.1 40.4 6 105 171 61.4 1,115 6.5 7 4 59 17 84.3 42.9 66 1390 2089 66.5 16,756 8.0 118 45 77 211 100.8 - Rushing
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