ESPN's Top 25 Draft Prospects This Year
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Regarding the concept of drafting multiple QBs this year, Zac Jackson who covers the Browns for The Athletic has us taking Carter with our first pick, and then Tyler Shough from Lville in the 3rd and Kurtis Rourke from IU in the 6th in his initial mock draft. I could see that approach this year.
Most years aren’t the year to take two QBs and it is a seldomly used strategy to begin with…this year the QB class isn’t top heavy, middle heavy or bottom heavy. Insert a skinny joke here.
Most years aren’t the year to take two QBs and it is a seldomly used strategy to begin with…this year the QB class isn’t top heavy, middle heavy or bottom heavy. Insert a skinny joke here.
I agree about the heavy thing. FWIW, Washington once took RG3 in the 1st round and Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same year/draft.
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Most years aren’t the year to take two QBs and it is a seldomly used strategy to begin with…this year the QB class isn’t top heavy, middle heavy or bottom heavy. Insert a skinny joke here.
I agree about the heavy thing. FWIW, Washington once took RG3 in the 1st round and Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same year/draft.
I agree about the heavy thing. FWIW, Washington once took RG3 in the 1st round and Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same year/draft.
I think that The top 2 QBs are not worthy of the #2 pick, so drafting 2 QBs later may be reasonable. However, the Browns have a lot of holes to fill
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I think that The top 2 QBs are not worthy of the #2 pick, so drafting 2 QBs later may be reasonable. However, the Browns have a lot of holes to fill
It'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I only watched a handful of snaps from Sanders this year; while I also saw Syracuse outscore Miami (and Ward). No expertise here on either guy. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any expertise in our FO about QB prospects or what it takes to develop and raise one in this league. As with any QB prospect from the 1st overall pick to the very last pick - a Brock Purdy story here just doesn't seem possible in Jimmy's business. Hope I'm wrong - I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. If we had any other set-up - an early mid-round guy at the top of round 3 could be quite intriguing. For now, let's start with a quick peak at the 2 guys we hear the most about.
Here's Ward's stats from 3 different programs showing at the very least 5 years of starting experience. There's also the stats for each game in 2024 to show how he fared against varying levels of competition.
Career Passing Passing Sacked Fumbles Season Team Type G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds PasY/G Y/A TD Int Sacks YdsL Fumb FumL 2020 IW Reg 6 146.5 183 303 60.4 2,260 376.7 7.5 24 4 17 0 - - 2021 IW Reg 11 154.4 305 474 64.3 3,827 347.9 8.1 38 10 24 -167 - - 2022 WSU Reg 12 132.9 298 465 64.1 3,094 257.8 6.7 23 8 40 -274 - - 2023 WSU Reg 12 145.4 323 485 66.6 3,736 311.3 7.7 25 7 39 -226 - - 2024 MIA Reg 12 171.1 293 435 67.4 4,123 343.6 9.5 36 7 22 -142 - - Game Log Passing Rushing Sacked Fumbles Date Opp Score Type QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Att Yds Y/A Long TD Sacks YdsL Fumb FumL Nov 30 @SYR Reg 169.2 25 36 69.4 349 9.7 2 0 5 19 3.8 17 0 1 -8 - - Nov 23 WAKE Reg 145.1 27 38 71.1 280 7.4 2 1 3 -5 -1.7 1 1 1 -7 - - Nov 9 @GT Reg 164.4 25 39 64.1 348 8.9 3 0 5 -5 -1.0 7 0 3 -18 - - Nov 2 DUKE Reg 178.3 25 41 61.0 400 9.8 5 1 3 1 0.3 8 0 2 -7 - - Oct 26 FSU Reg 112.8 22 35 62.9 208 5.9 0 0 7 -4 -0.6 11 0 4 -24 - - Oct 19 @LOU Reg 190.6 21 32 65.6 319 10.0 4 0 7 29 4.1 22 0 3 -21 - - Oct 5 @CAL Reg 144.0 35 53 66.0 437 8.2 2 1 6 15 2.5 24 1 3 -29 - - Sep 27 VT Reg 163.2 24 38 63.2 343 9.0 4 2 10 57 5.7 19 1 3 -16 - - Sep 21 @S FLA Reg 193.6 24 34 70.6 404 11.9 3 1 5 43 8.6 18 0 0 0 - - Sep 14 BALL Reg 230.6 19 28 67.9 346 12.4 5 0 - - - - - 0 0 - - Sep 7 FAMU Reg 213.2 20 26 76.9 304 11.7 3 0 4 13 3.3 8 1 1 -9 - - Aug 31 @FLA Reg 189.3 26 35 74.3 385 11.0 3 1 3 33 11.0 24 0 1 -3 - - Here's Shedeur Sanders's stats fwiw - followed by the 2024 individual game stats.
Career Passing Passing Sacked Fumbles Season Team Type G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds PasY/G Y/A TD Int Sacks YdsL Fumb FumL 2021 JKST Reg 12 158.2 256 377 67.9 3,056 254.7 8.1 29 6 32 -265 - - 2022 JKST Reg 12 158.7 312 444 70.3 3,401 283.4 7.7 36 6 21 -5 - - 2023 COLO Reg 11 151.7 298 430 69.3 3,230 293.6 7.5 27 3 52 -458 - - 2024 COLO Reg 12 168.8 337 454 74.2 3,926 327.2 8.6 35 8 38 -305 - -
Game Log Passing Rushing Sacked Fumbles Date Opp Score Type QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Att Yds Y/A Long TD Sacks YdsL Fumb FumL Nov 29 OKST Reg 208.0 34 41 82.9 438 10.7 5 1 10 -31 -3.1 17 0 6 -61 - - Nov 23 @KU Reg 190.5 23 29 79.3 266 9.2 3 0 4 26 6.5 17 0 1 -5 - - Nov 16 UTAH Reg 162.1 30 41 73.2 340 8.3 3 1 7 -9 -1.3 9 0 3 -22 - - Nov 9 @TTU Reg 149.6 30 43 69.8 291 6.8 3 0 9 16 1.8 12 1 3 -21 - - Oct 26 CIN Reg 195.8 25 30 83.3 323 10.8 2 0 5 1 0.2 4 1 1 -10 - - Oct 19 @ARIZ Reg 141.2 23 33 69.7 250 7.6 2 2 7 6 0.9 6 1 1 -5 - - Oct 12 KSU Reg 186.2 34 40 85.0 388 9.7 3 1 9 -50 -5.6 13 0 6 -74 - - Sep 28 @UCF Reg 172.2 28 35 80.0 290 8.3 3 1 5 15 3.0 13 0 2 -13 - - Sep 21 BAY Reg 146.9 25 41 61.0 341 8.3 2 0 19 26 1.4 17 1 8 -52 - - Sep 14 @CSU Reg 153.6 36 49 73.5 310 6.3 4 0 2 -3 -1.5 0 0 1 -3 - - Sep 7 @NEB Reg 117.9 23 38 60.5 244 6.4 1 1 8 -30 -3.8 3 0 5 -33 - - Aug 29 NDSU Reg 219.4 26 34 76.5 445 13.1 4 1 6 17 2.8 11 0 1 -6 - - -
I think that The top 2 QBs are not worthy of the #2 pick, so drafting 2 QBs later may be reasonable. However, the Browns have a lot of holes to fill
If they don't take one with the #2 overall pick (I'm starting to feel like they will though) how about taking a QB somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round range, then target another one high next year? Two new quarterbacks, but over two years.
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Most years aren’t the year to take two QBs and it is a seldomly used strategy to begin with…this year the QB class isn’t top heavy, middle heavy or bottom heavy. Insert a skinny joke here.
I agree about the heavy thing. FWIW, Washington once took RG3 in the 1st round and Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same year/draft.
I agree about the heavy thing. FWIW, Washington once took RG3 in the 1st round and Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same year/draft.
That’s one of the only examples I can think of as well. You had 6 QBs of the 11 drafted in 2012…selected to at least one Pro Bowl in that draft class.
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I suppose, in my development of Current Market Value vs Historic Market Value, I've begun asking more questions to contrast play between players.
Is Jaxon Dart really head and shoulders above where Matt Corral was?
Has Will Howard done anything that merits a 3rd round pick?
Is Abdul Carter better than Micah Parsons?
Regarding Will Howard or anyone for that matter - never underestimate what a limited supply of QBs can have up against the big demand for them. When supplies are limited/weak - teams will reach.
Regarding Will Howard or anyone for that matter - never underestimate what a limited supply of QBs can have up against the big demand for them. When supplies are limited/weak - teams will reach.
That's sort of my point though. Reaching for desperation in a shallow class is like drinking sea water when thirsty.
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I think that The top 2 QBs are not worthy of the #2 pick, so drafting 2 QBs later may be reasonable. However, the Browns have a lot of holes to fill
If they don't take one with the #2 overall pick (I'm starting to feel like they will though) how about taking a QB somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round range, then target another one high next year? Two new quarterbacks, but over two years.
If they don't take one with the #2 overall pick (I'm starting to feel like they will though) how about taking a QB somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round range, then target another one high next year? Two new quarterbacks, but over two years.
If I’m using draft capital I don’t know if I touch this draft when it comes to QBs.
What about a guy like Aiden OConnell. Tall pocket passer - likely to get replaced in LV. Could the Raiders move on from him for a 3rd or 4th round pick?
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Regarding Will Howard or anyone for that matter - never underestimate what a limited supply of QBs can have up against the big demand for them. When supplies are limited/weak - teams will reach.
That's sort of my point though. Reaching for desperation in a shallow class is like drinking sea water when thirsty.
That's sort of my point though. Reaching for desperation in a shallow class is like drinking sea water when thirsty.
While your point isn't bad - it doesn't change the reality about supply and demand especially if you don't have a QB and you are holding the 2nd overall pick (followed by drafting near the top of every round). That said, I'm not getting a strong impression anyone wants to trade up for a shot at Sanders or Ward but I could be wrong. I cut and pasted your follow up questions in italics here:
I suppose, in my development of Current Market Value vs Historic Market Value, I've begun asking more questions to contrast play between players.
Is Jaxon Dart really head and shoulders above where Matt Corral was?
Has Will Howard done anything that merits a 3rd round pick?
Is Abdul Carter better than Micah Parsons?
The question regarding Will Howard is how will he do on an NFL Offense that doesn't have the surrounding talent Ohio State had? If someone likes what they see in him or thinks he can play with what they have - they're probably gonna draft him in a much earlier round than he'd get drafted in if this was a strong/deep QB draft. That said, and this isn't my rule - 1 position that NFL teams traditionally reach on is the QB position (but to your line of thinking - it's prolly why there's so many errors from those reaching). I'm not a huge Jaxson Dart fan; but I'd rather see if his skillset is compatible with the offense that is intrigued in him than why Corral couldn't work. He's not a guy I hope we reach on fwiw. I think Carter has a shoulder injury he kept leaving his last game with that I'd need answered before I share interest with his bandwagon. That with the Browns Med/Sports Med Staff - gee what could go wrong?
I've seen a lot of drafts, and when there's a run on certain positions - supply and demand is dictating.
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If you lean toward health and character with guys that probably have the highest floor it is these two:
Travis Hunter and Mason Graham (3-Technique fit).
Regarding Will Howard he played with lesser talent at KSU so we have that.
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If you lean toward health and character with guys that probably have the highest floor it is these two:
Travis Hunter and Mason Graham (3-Technique fit).
Regarding Will Howard he played with lesser talent at KSU so we have that.
If you lean toward health and character with guys that probably have the highest floor it is these two:
Travis Hunter and Mason Graham (3-Technique fit).
Regarding Will Howard he played with lesser talent at KSU so we have that.
Mason Graham is a hell of a player.
But unless he turns into Dexter Lawrence, an IDL pick that high isn't worth the investment. Plus the Browns drafted their future 3 tech last year in Mikey Hall, although his health is a dubious matter at the moment.
While your point isn't bad - it doesn't change the reality about supply and demand especially if you don't have a QB and you are holding the 2nd overall pick (followed by drafting near the top of every round). That said, I'm not getting a strong impression anyone wants to trade up for a shot at Sanders or Ward but I could be wrong. I cut and pasted your follow up questions in italics here:
I suppose, in my development of Current Market Value vs Historic Market Value, I've begun asking more questions to contrast play between players.
Is Jaxon Dart really head and shoulders above where Matt Corral was?
Has Will Howard done anything that merits a 3rd round pick?
Is Abdul Carter better than Micah Parsons?
The question regarding Will Howard is how will he do on an NFL Offense that doesn't have the surrounding talent Ohio State had? If someone likes what they see in him or thinks he can play with what they have - they're probably gonna draft him in a much earlier round than he'd get drafted in if this was a strong/deep QB draft. That said, and this isn't my rule - 1 position that NFL teams traditionally reach on is the QB position (but to your line of thinking - it's prolly why there's so many errors from those reaching). I'm not a huge Jaxson Dart fan; but I'd rather see if his skillset is compatible with the offense that is intrigued in him than why Corral couldn't work. He's not a guy I hope we reach on fwiw. I think Carter has a shoulder injury he kept leaving his last game with that I'd need answered before I share interest with his bandwagon. That with the Browns Med/Sports Med Staff - gee what could go wrong?
I've seen a lot of drafts, and when there's a run on certain positions - supply and demand is dictating.
We're saying the same things bubs. Only difference is I'm questioning 'why?'. This isn't macroeconomics. Just because the price is higher, doesn't mean it *has* to be paid. Taking a developmental QB isn't a need, it's a want, which is exactly what the bulk of this draft class is - developmental.
In any other year Will is a day 3 pick. This over inflated value is similar to stock when it's artificially pumped up. If you can see the crash, then avoid the collision.
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If you lean toward health and character with guys that probably have the highest floor it is these two:
Travis Hunter and Mason Graham (3-Technique fit).
Regarding Will Howard he played with lesser talent at KSU so we have that.
Mason Graham is a hell of a player.
But unless he turns into Dexter Lawrence, an IDL pick that high isn't worth the investment. Plus the Browns drafted their future 3 tech last year in Mikey Hall, although his health is a dubious matter at the moment.
While your point isn't bad - it doesn't change the reality about supply and demand especially if you don't have a QB and you are holding the 2nd overall pick (followed by drafting near the top of every round). That said, I'm not getting a strong impression anyone wants to trade up for a shot at Sanders or Ward but I could be wrong. I cut and pasted your follow up questions in italics here:
I suppose, in my development of Current Market Value vs Historic Market Value, I've begun asking more questions to contrast play between players.
Is Jaxon Dart really head and shoulders above where Matt Corral was?
Has Will Howard done anything that merits a 3rd round pick?
Is Abdul Carter better than Micah Parsons?
The question regarding Will Howard is how will he do on an NFL Offense that doesn't have the surrounding talent Ohio State had? If someone likes what they see in him or thinks he can play with what they have - they're probably gonna draft him in a much earlier round than he'd get drafted in if this was a strong/deep QB draft. That said, and this isn't my rule - 1 position that NFL teams traditionally reach on is the QB position (but to your line of thinking - it's prolly why there's so many errors from those reaching). I'm not a huge Jaxson Dart fan; but I'd rather see if his skillset is compatible with the offense that is intrigued in him than why Corral couldn't work. He's not a guy I hope we reach on fwiw. I think Carter has a shoulder injury he kept leaving his last game with that I'd need answered before I share interest with his bandwagon. That with the Browns Med/Sports Med Staff - gee what could go wrong?
I've seen a lot of drafts, and when there's a run on certain positions - supply and demand is dictating.
We're saying the same things bubs. Only difference is I'm questioning 'why?'. This isn't macroeconomics. Just because the price is higher, doesn't mean it *has* to be paid. Taking a developmental QB isn't a need, it's a want, which is exactly what the bulk of this draft class is - developmental.
In any other year Will is a day 3 pick. This over inflated value is similar to stock when it's artificially pumped up. If you can see the crash, then avoid the collision.
Mason Graham is a hell of a player.
But unless he turns into Dexter Lawrence, an IDL pick that high isn't worth the investment. Plus the Browns drafted their future 3 tech last year in Mikey Hall, although his health is a dubious matter at the moment.
We're saying the same things bubs. Only difference is I'm questioning 'why?'. This isn't macroeconomics. Just because the price is higher, doesn't mean it *has* to be paid. Taking a developmental QB isn't a need, it's a want, which is exactly what the bulk of this draft class is - developmental.
In any other year Will is a day 3 pick. This over inflated value is similar to stock when it's artificially pumped up. If you can see the crash, then avoid the collision.
? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Mason Graham is a hell of a player.
But unless he turns into Dexter Lawrence, an IDL pick that high isn't worth the investment. Plus the Browns drafted their future 3 tech last year in Mikey Hall, although his health is a dubious matter at the moment.
We're saying the same things bubs. Only difference is I'm questioning 'why?'. This isn't macroeconomics. Just because the price is higher, doesn't mean it *has* to be paid. Taking a developmental QB isn't a need, it's a want, which is exactly what the bulk of this draft class is - developmental.
In any other year Will is a day 3 pick. This over inflated value is similar to stock when it's artificially pumped up. If you can see the crash, then avoid the collision.
? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him.
The reason is, at least the Haslem's, didn't think Baker was good enough. AND they had just seen what the Rams did in trading Goff for Stafford and immediately win the super bowl.
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Mason Graham is a hell of a player.
But unless he turns into Dexter Lawrence, an IDL pick that high isn't worth the investment. Plus the Browns drafted their future 3 tech last year in Mikey Hall, although his health is a dubious matter at the moment.
We're saying the same things bubs. Only difference is I'm questioning 'why?'. This isn't macroeconomics. Just because the price is higher, doesn't mean it *has* to be paid. Taking a developmental QB isn't a need, it's a want, which is exactly what the bulk of this draft class is - developmental.
In any other year Will is a day 3 pick. This over inflated value is similar to stock when it's artificially pumped up. If you can see the crash, then avoid the collision.
? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
why?
The trade went down on the eve of the worst QB class in memory as you had Willis…Pickett…Howell…Ridder.
You could wait a year (eternity) for Stroud or smallish Bryce Young.The trade market (unrealistic guys) was full of old established vets (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford) or young guys not going anywhere Allen, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes).
We needed to make a move.
In hindsight we could have traded maybe for Hurts and the haul we would have given up would have been much less for Jalen Hurts. How many would have been on board for Hurts in 2022?
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
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? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
why?
The trade went down on the eve of the worst QB class in memory as you had Willis…Pickett…Howell…Ridder.
You could wait a year (eternity) for Stroud or smallish Bryce Young.The trade market (unrealistic guys) was full of old established vets (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford) or young guys not going anywhere Allen, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes).
We needed to make a move.
In hindsight we could have traded maybe for Hurts and the haul we would have given up would have been much less for Jalen Hurts. How many would have been on board for Hurts in 2022?
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
I wasn't happy with him,the whole locker room seemed divided ( OBJ-itis). Browns were in a quandary regarding his contract.
Hindsight is 20-20 but I wouldn't have given up on him. I always loved his heart, but I also knew he wasn't an " AFC North" QB. He definitely struggled against Pittsburgh & Baltimore in general.
I suspect that ultimately, the Browns FO decided OBJ & Baker had to go for team chemistry sake.
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? I was asking myself that question - are we agreeing or disagreeing. The biggest reason we're in this QB jam is because our Owner & FO felt they needed Watson they just never understood/asked WHY they needed him. Why, in their opinion, was he going to change everything? It's like nobody high up in the organization or coaching staff looked at any film to identify it. That's why they never figured out HOW to use him the way Houston did to get 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances with him in the 3-4 years he suited up there. The Browns were still hiring offensive coaches and an OC heading into his 3rd year here with hopefully the right offense this time. We saw the predictable outcome as more symptoms/scapegoats got fired again while the guys from Harvard continue to enjoy tenure
Unfortunately, these are the same people we're still counting on to draft us a QB and bring in a veteran.
why?
The trade went down on the eve of the worst QB class in memory as you had Willis…Pickett…Howell…Ridder.
You could wait a year (eternity) for Stroud or smallish Bryce Young.The trade market (unrealistic guys) was full of old established vets (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford) or young guys not going anywhere Allen, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes).
We needed to make a move.
In hindsight we could have traded maybe for Hurts and the haul we would have given up would have been much less for Jalen Hurts. How many would have been on board for Hurts in 2022?
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
why?
The trade went down on the eve of the worst QB class in memory as you had Willis…Pickett…Howell…Ridder.
You could wait a year (eternity) for Stroud or smallish Bryce Young.The trade market (unrealistic guys) was full of old established vets (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford) or young guys not going anywhere Allen, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes).
We needed to make a move.
In hindsight we could have traded maybe for Hurts and the haul we would have given up would have been much less for Jalen Hurts. How many would have been on board for Hurts in 2022?
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
You're missing my point completely. In this draft, if the Browns draft Carter at #2 WHY him over others? What's the reason(s) he's the guy they invest the pick in? So, wouldn't it be bat-shit crazy to put him in a passive read and react 2 gap scheme upfront in lieu of using WHY you liked what you saw on film from this guy? You want to use his quickness and explosion off the edge to hurry and sack passers; because that's WHY you invested a 2nd overall pick in him. Stay with me here.
We ALL know everything you said and I even liked it. That said, this Owner & FO made a 230 million $ guaranteed salary investment on a guy they had no idea what kind of offense he even needed (ZERO film study on their part unless they're THAT bad). That's the WHY they never researched before pulling the trigger.. Why do you invest in anything you haven't thoroughly researched to the tune of 230 million $? They were still hiring and firing Offensive Coordinators and assistants prior to Watson's 3rd year and after his 3rd year - because they didn't have the 1st clue what kind of offense they needed for him. Not to mention, their plan to protect their investment was an extremely lazy (and oft-injured) LT Jed Wills. We're all just passionate fans of this team; but the Owner & FO has to put all the stuff in place to make success possible especially for an investment of that magnitude. When I say WHY - I mean identify what you need on film and put it all in place so you nourish and protect what you purchased.
I'll admit, I thought Watson would be a great player for us based on his trend of the last 2 teams he played for. WHY? Because watching him thrive at Clemson beating Ohio State & Alabama in back to back weeks showed me what he could do in a compatible offense for his skillset. Houston drafted him and also gave him a compatible offense for his skillset to the tune of 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances in the 4 years he suited up. Biggest difference of all between the 2 places he was successful at (Clemson & Houston) vrs Cleveland? He had to work for his rewards in offenses that knew what he needed vrs Cleveland never successfully identifying what it was he needed via offensive design/strategy and coaching. That's gonna go down in our lifetime as the least researched investment with horrible plans to protect it. Trial and error for 3 years assures me they never found out what it was that worked before he got here; and/or they didn't have the know how to set up something even remotely close to it. That's their job as Owner & FO - while we're just passionate fans bouncing opinions off each other.
Here's the difference in stats from what Cleveland setup for him vrs what Houston did:
YearYearTeamTeamCMP%Completions percentageYDSPassing yardsTDPassing touchdownsINTInterceptions thrownRatingPasser rating202463.41,1485379.0202361.41,1157484.3202258.21,1027579.1202070.24,823337112.4201967.33,852261298.0201868.34,165269103.1201761.81,699198103.0 -
why?
The trade went down on the eve of the worst QB class in memory as you had Willis…Pickett…Howell…Ridder.
You could wait a year (eternity) for Stroud or smallish Bryce Young.The trade market (unrealistic guys) was full of old established vets (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford) or young guys not going anywhere Allen, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes).
We needed to make a move.
In hindsight we could have traded maybe for Hurts and the haul we would have given up would have been much less for Jalen Hurts. How many would have been on board for Hurts in 2022?
How many people really wanted Baker back after his 2021 performance? Be honest.
You're missing my point completely. In this draft, if the Browns draft Carter at #2 WHY him over others? What's the reason(s) he's the guy they invest the pick in? So, wouldn't it be bat-shit crazy to put him in a passive read and react 2 gap scheme upfront in lieu of using WHY you liked what you saw on film from this guy? You want to use his quickness and explosion off the edge to hurry and sack passers; because that's WHY you invested a 2nd overall pick in him. Stay with me here.
We ALL know everything you said and I even liked it. That said, this Owner & FO made a 230 million $ guaranteed salary investment on a guy they had no idea what kind of offense he even needed (ZERO film study on their part unless they're THAT bad). That's the WHY they never researched before pulling the trigger.. Why do you invest in anything you haven't thoroughly researched to the tune of 230 million $? They were still hiring and firing Offensive Coordinators and assistants prior to Watson's 3rd year and after his 3rd year - because they didn't have the 1st clue what kind of offense they needed for him. Not to mention, their plan to protect their investment was an extremely lazy (and oft-injured) LT Jed Wills. We're all just passionate fans of this team; but the Owner & FO has to put all the stuff in place to make success possible especially for an investment of that magnitude. When I say WHY - I mean identify what you need on film and put it all in place so you nourish and protect what you purchased.
I'll admit, I thought Watson would be a great player for us based on his trend of the last 2 teams he played for. WHY? Because watching him thrive at Clemson beating Ohio State & Alabama in back to back weeks showed me what he could do in a compatible offense for his skillset. Houston drafted him and also gave him a compatible offense for his skillset to the tune of 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances in the 4 years he suited up. Biggest difference of all between the 2 places he was successful at (Clemson & Houston) vrs Cleveland? He had to work for his rewards in offenses that knew what he needed vrs Cleveland never successfully identifying what it was he needed via offensive design/strategy and coaching. That's gonna go down in our lifetime as the least researched investment with horrible plans to protect it. Trial and error for 3 years assures me they never found out what it was that worked before he got here; and/or they didn't have the know how to set up something even remotely close to it. That's their job as Owner & FO - while we're just passionate fans bouncing opinions off each other.
Here's the difference in stats from what Cleveland setup for him vrs what Houston did:
YearYearTeamTeamCMP%Completions percentageYDSPassing yardsTDPassing touchdownsINTInterceptions thrownRatingPasser rating202463.41,1485379.0202361.41,1157484.3202258.21,1027579.1202070.24,823337112.4201967.33,852261298.0201868.34,165269103.1201761.81,699198103.0You're missing my point completely. In this draft, if the Browns draft Carter at #2 WHY him over others? What's the reason(s) he's the guy they invest the pick in? So, wouldn't it be bat-shit crazy to put him in a passive read and react 2 gap scheme upfront in lieu of using WHY you liked what you saw on film from this guy? You want to use his quickness and explosion off the edge to hurry and sack passers; because that's WHY you invested a 2nd overall pick in him. Stay with me here.
We ALL know everything you said and I even liked it. That said, this Owner & FO made a 230 million $ guaranteed salary investment on a guy they had no idea what kind of offense he even needed (ZERO film study on their part unless they're THAT bad). That's the WHY they never researched before pulling the trigger.. Why do you invest in anything you haven't thoroughly researched to the tune of 230 million $? They were still hiring and firing Offensive Coordinators and assistants prior to Watson's 3rd year and after his 3rd year - because they didn't have the 1st clue what kind of offense they needed for him. Not to mention, their plan to protect their investment was an extremely lazy (and oft-injured) LT Jed Wills. We're all just passionate fans of this team; but the Owner & FO has to put all the stuff in place to make success possible especially for an investment of that magnitude. When I say WHY - I mean identify what you need on film and put it all in place so you nourish and protect what you purchased.
I'll admit, I thought Watson would be a great player for us based on his trend of the last 2 teams he played for. WHY? Because watching him thrive at Clemson beating Ohio State & Alabama in back to back weeks showed me what he could do in a compatible offense for his skillset. Houston drafted him and also gave him a compatible offense for his skillset to the tune of 3 Pro Bowls and 2 playoff appearances in the 4 years he suited up. Biggest difference of all between the 2 places he was successful at (Clemson & Houston) vrs Cleveland? He had to work for his rewards in offenses that knew what he needed vrs Cleveland never successfully identifying what it was he needed via offensive design/strategy and coaching. That's gonna go down in our lifetime as the least researched investment with horrible plans to protect it. Trial and error for 3 years assures me they never found out what it was that worked before he got here; and/or they didn't have the know how to set up something even remotely close to it. That's their job as Owner & FO - while we're just passionate fans bouncing opinions off each other.
Here's the difference in stats from what Cleveland setup for him vrs what Houston did:
YearYearTeamTeamCMP%Completions percentageYDSPassing yardsTDPassing touchdownsINTInterceptions thrownRatingPasser rating202463.41,1485379.0202361.41,1157484.3202258.21,1027579.1202070.24,823337112.4201967.33,852261298.0201868.34,165269103.1201761.81,699198103.0Gotta run and these all great points. And the second part of my would be statement is definitely the lack of due diligence on our part to fit the player with our system. Just wanted to remind us all the climate, perspective and environment the time we made this decision.
One quick point….Carter in Schwartz Wide 9 especially in Year 1 when he’s got an awesome pass rush tool and while he is becoming a proficient tackler and run defender in the league is a great setup for him to have early success. I see elite pass rush skills dip, bend, spin and great hands and He played early at PSU as a LB so you see read and diagnose skills - makes him more versatile in different systems. If Myles sticks around he’s not the guy an offense is trying to take away.
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The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1 or the Sanders family refuses to come to Cleveland. If he's available at #2, and they don't fight the Browns taking him, I think it will happen.
His accuracy, anticipation and ability to play within a system IMO will make Stefanski and Berry want to pull the trigger on him. His weaknesses: Good but not great arm, size and athleticism I believe won't stop the Browns from taking him. You don't need elite physical attributes to succeed in Stefanski's offense, I believe he finds accuracy, intelligence and the ability to not turn the ball over to be more important.
Not saying this is what I want the Browns to do, but this is what I think they will do. They need to get a young QB in and have him succeed early to show ownership that the future is bright and they've moved on from the Watson debacle. They don't need to make the playoffs next season IMO, but they need to show that they are on their way back to playoff contention.
Signing a veteran, drafting a mid-rounder QB to develop and accumulating draft picks for 2026 (my preferred plan) isn't going to save their jobs.
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The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1 or the Sanders family refuses to come to Cleveland. If he's available at #2, and they don't fight the Browns taking him, I think it will happen.
His accuracy, anticipation and ability to play within a system IMO will make Stefanski and Berry want to pull the trigger on him. His weaknesses: Good but not great arm, size and athleticism I believe won't stop the Browns from taking him. You don't need elite physical attributes to succeed in Stefanski's offense, I believe he finds accuracy, intelligence and the ability to not turn the ball over to be more important.
Not saying this is what I want the Browns to do, but this is what I think they will do. They need to get a young QB in and have him succeed early to show ownership that the future is bright and they've moved on from the Watson debacle. They don't need to make the playoffs next season IMO, but they need to show that they are on their way back to playoff contention.
Signing a veteran, drafting a mid-rounder QB to develop and accumulating draft picks for 2026 (my preferred plan) isn't going to save their jobs.
The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1
Welcome aboard.
I know you don't want us to draft him. But I think that his floor is high enough such that a team with NO QB pretty much HAS to take him. And that's why I don't think anyone has to worry about us drafting him. He'll already be off the board. I can't imagine that his Dad would think that TN would be a worse place to be than Cleveland. - Worry about us taking Ward instead.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1 or the Sanders family refuses to come to Cleveland. If he's available at #2, and they don't fight the Browns taking him, I think it will happen.
His accuracy, anticipation and ability to play within a system IMO will make Stefanski and Berry want to pull the trigger on him. His weaknesses: Good but not great arm, size and athleticism I believe won't stop the Browns from taking him. You don't need elite physical attributes to succeed in Stefanski's offense, I believe he finds accuracy, intelligence and the ability to not turn the ball over to be more important.
Not saying this is what I want the Browns to do, but this is what I think they will do. They need to get a young QB in and have him succeed early to show ownership that the future is bright and they've moved on from the Watson debacle. They don't need to make the playoffs next season IMO, but they need to show that they are on their way back to playoff contention.
Signing a veteran, drafting a mid-rounder QB to develop and accumulating draft picks for 2026 (my preferred plan) isn't going to save their jobs.
The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1 or the Sanders family refuses to come to Cleveland. If he's available at #2, and they don't fight the Browns taking him, I think it will happen.
His accuracy, anticipation and ability to play within a system IMO will make Stefanski and Berry want to pull the trigger on him. His weaknesses: Good but not great arm, size and athleticism I believe won't stop the Browns from taking him. You don't need elite physical attributes to succeed in Stefanski's offense, I believe he finds accuracy, intelligence and the ability to not turn the ball over to be more important.
Not saying this is what I want the Browns to do, but this is what I think they will do. They need to get a young QB in and have him succeed early to show ownership that the future is bright and they've moved on from the Watson debacle. They don't need to make the playoffs next season IMO, but they need to show that they are on their way back to playoff contention.
Signing a veteran, drafting a mid-rounder QB to develop and accumulating draft picks for 2026 (my preferred plan) isn't going to save their jobs.
I'm starting to think the same thing. I heard on ESPN2 early AM show that a study was done on a bunch of QBs in this draft about who the most accurate passer is (not inclusive of stats believe it or not - but ball placement on throws made). It was Shedeur and apparently no one else even came close fwiw.
This is what I posted in the Position Groups of Need thread about a week ago:
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The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced that the Browns will take Sanders at #2, unless he's taken #1
Welcome aboard.
I know you don't want us to draft him. But I think that his floor is high enough such that a team with NO QB pretty much HAS to take him. And that's why I don't think anyone has to worry about us drafting him. He'll already be off the board. I can't imagine that his Dad would think that TN would be a worse place to be than Cleveland. - Worry about us taking Ward instead.
Welcome aboard.
I know you don't want us to draft him. But I think that his floor is high enough such that a team with NO QB pretty much HAS to take him. And that's why I don't think anyone has to worry about us drafting him. He'll already be off the board. I can't imagine that his Dad would think that TN would be a worse place to be than Cleveland. - Worry about us taking Ward instead.
He’s got the best shot of being a NY Giant at #1 overall which I think will happen.
1. Sanders (Giants) by Trade.
2. Hunter Browns
3. Carter Titans
Predicting the Browns QB in 2025 to be Aiden O’Connell
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