Unofficial 2025 Pre-Training Camp Roster & Depth Charts
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I don't have optimism for more than a 7-10 finish this season, but it should be an interesting one to watch regardless.
A lot of storylines.
7-9 wins is doable
I can see alot of 21-17 type wins , just as long as our D doesn't get completely tired out
7-9 wins is doable
I can see alot of 21-17 type wins , just as long as our D doesn't get completely tired out
I don't see a repeat of last year when the D seemed to have to be out there too damn much because we just couldn't move the sticks because of the inability to run the ball consistently. We are miles above that with the addition of these two great RBs and a ball control do it all receiver who specializes in 3rd down play.
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I don't have optimism for more than a 7-10 finish this season, but it should be an interesting one to watch regardless.
A lot of storylines.
7-9 wins is doable
I can see alot of 21-17 type wins , just as long as our D doesn't get completely tired out
7-9 wins is doable
I can see alot of 21-17 type wins , just as long as our D doesn't get completely tired out
That would be a nice improvement Syd!
In order to keep the scoring down the ball control offense @texasag1969 mentioned to sustain drives/time of possession will help. The litmus test is going to be our secondary. This team pressured Herbert pretty good IMO; and the Chargers still had guys catching uncontested throws for TDs. All I could think of was some 70s lyrics "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."
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Looking back at our posts to each other yesterday - I can't blame you for being concerned about how the Browns orchestrated the QB selections. The thing I take away is I truly think the Browns drafted the most accurate QB in this draft in spite of no running game to lean on or decent pass pro to count on at Colorado. Even when the planets have aligned for the Browns to draft a QB 1st overall in 2017 and 2018 - they didn't know who Patrick Mahomes was on draft day. Meanwhile, they felt if Watson was any good they could always just trade away 3 1st round draft picks to get him with experience, playoffs and Pro Bowls while they would give him a guaranteed 230 million $ contract in lieu of a contract with rookie salary cap restrictions. The good news was they ended up with Myles Garrett in that draft. The bad news is they went 0-16 his rookie year so they had a 2nd consecutive chance at choosing their pick of the QB litter. I suppose I've had sufficient training to where I should be joining you in thinking next year gives us a better shot. To do that, I have accept another season of 3 wins or less for a pick of a litter we have no idea what the strength of it is...
While I do not find Shedeur Sanders to physically be that special of a player, I think his arm, size and athleticism are all kind of averageish, there are some attributes I do like about him. There's part of me excited to see him play this season, honestly.
My point was that my worst case scenario was that he showed just enough this season to make the Browns think he's the guy long-term, then they skip taking a QB next draft, and Sanders ends up being not the guy. I'm not saying that is going to happen, I'd love to see the Browns be able to use two top 10-12 picks on other positions, I'm just saying that I worry about my worst case scenario happening, especially when we set ourselves up to have the capital to get a top QB prospect.
Kind of like when Butch Davis was fighting for his Browns job and went out and got a 35 year old Jeff Garcia as a quick fix and didn't draft the kid from NW Ohio who played college ball in the MAC in Ohio. The Browns imploded shortly after Winslow fucked himself up on a motorcycle and that MAC QB from Ohio tortured the Browns for almost two decades.
But back to Sanders, I question if he's the type of guy to lead the Browns out of the desert. There are some guys who when the shit hits the fan, they tell everyone to jump on their back... and there are some guys who in the same position start pointing fingers at everyone else and say: "Hey man, I can only do so much myself."
Shedeur strikes me as the latter.
I do not find Shedeur Sanders to physically be that special of a player, I think his arm, size and athleticism are all kind of averageish
Kinda' Brian Sipe-ish. Personally, I prefer them tall and strongarmed. We didn't draft that type of guy. (maybe next year)
A couple of automatic demerits for Sanders and one for Gabriel (stronger arm than Sanders). I'm not overly interested in the athleticism. I just would like my QB to be able to QB sneak. If my QB HAS athleticism, that's more-bettah. Just get your ass down and slide! So, perhaps an extra half-credit to Gabriel for better scrambling abilities. But basically I'd like my QB in the pocket where the blockers know where he is...and get the ball out, including over everybody's head if nobody's open.
there are some attributes I do like about him. There's part of me excited to see him play this season, honestly.
...let's ride with that thought for a while. I'm anxious to see him play. We've seen a $#!+ ton of rookie QB's take their first snaps in the NFL. We're more experienced gauging rookie QB's than any fan base in the league. We can tell if they look unsure. If they don't go through progressions. If they're not aware of the play clock. If they seem overwhelmed. - 2 1/2 months 'til we're at Carolina for the 1st preseason game.
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7-9 wins is doable
I can see alot of 21-17 type wins , just as long as our D doesn't get completely tired out
I don't see a repeat of last year when the D seemed to have to be out there too damn much because we just couldn't move the sticks because of the inability to run the ball consistently. We are miles above that with the addition of these two great RBs and a ball control do it all receiver who specializes in 3rd down play.
I don't see a repeat of last year when the D seemed to have to be out there too damn much because we just couldn't move the sticks because of the inability to run the ball consistently. We are miles above that with the addition of these two great RBs and a ball control do it all receiver who specializes in 3rd down play.
I guess we'll find out how much the OL was responsible for last year's inability to run since it was the RB room that got the upgrades.
edit to add:
“Dawand Jones participating in the offseason program is a great sign,” Cabot wrote. “Jones excelled in his three-game tryout at left tackle last season before suffering his broken fibula, and has the inside track to the start at the position. He’s not only out there practicing already coming off the surgery, but he’s kept his weight under control and he looks good.”
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I don't see a repeat of last year when the D seemed to have to be out there too damn much because we just couldn't move the sticks because of the inability to run the ball consistently. We are miles above that with the addition of these two great RBs and a ball control do it all receiver who specializes in 3rd down play.
I guess we'll find out how much the OL was responsible for last year's inability to run since it was the RB room that got the upgrades.
edit to add:
“Dawand Jones participating in the offseason program is a great sign,” Cabot wrote. “Jones excelled in his three-game tryout at left tackle last season before suffering his broken fibula, and has the inside track to the start at the position. He’s not only out there practicing already coming off the surgery, but he’s kept his weight under control and he looks good.”
I guess we'll find out how much the OL was responsible for last year's inability to run since it was the RB room that got the upgrades.
edit to add:
“Dawand Jones participating in the offseason program is a great sign,” Cabot wrote. “Jones excelled in his three-game tryout at left tackle last season before suffering his broken fibula, and has the inside track to the start at the position. He’s not only out there practicing already coming off the surgery, but he’s kept his weight under control and he looks good.”
This is great news! All those years with Joe Thomas - we never had to worry about our left tackle's commitment to his profession. Back then we had to worry more about our QBs having 2 blind sides...
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Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
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Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
Love me some Olave, but too many concussion issues.
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Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
Love me some Olave, but too many concussion issues.
Love me some Olave, but too many concussion issues.
Speaking of concussions, let's hope Cedric Tillman's dome doesn't have any lingering effects after what seemed like a very long concussion last year.
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Shifting gears, the area I am most worried about on defense is the Secondary. Denzel Ward is another guy that can't afford the next concussion; and we weren't that great at the back end last year when he did play. Not saying it was his fault, there's issues at Corner and Safety IMO. Here's the 3 Defensive Depth Charts re-pasted if needed. Any thoughts, rumors, or doable solutions guys? @tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary. I still learn stuff about coverages and the back tier from you in my 60s:
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
Apparently the Browns have reached out to the Saints and inquired about WR Chris Olave.
In the article that I read about that, the author wasn't sure of when that 'reach out' happened. It may have been pre-draft.
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Shifting gears, the area I am most worried about on defense is the Secondary. Denzel Ward is another guy that can't afford the next concussion; and we weren't that great at the back end last year when he did play. Not saying it was his fault, there's issues at Corner and Safety IMO. Here's the 3 Defensive Depth Charts re-pasted if needed. Any thoughts, rumors, or doable solutions guys? @tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary. I still learn stuff about coverages and the back tier from you in my 60s:
@tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
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@tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
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For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
Bigger challenge for two reasons with Baltimore.
- Better OL
- QB centric running offense.
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And now something completely different: From Dec '24 Hopkins completely 'lost it' last year. I think we should get away from someone who can play that badly. This kid's a Lou Groza award winner. I used to like Lou Groza.
Cleveland Browns Sign St. Louis Battlehawks Standout Kicker Andre Szmyt
On the heels (or feet) of the continued NFL success of spring pro football's top kickers, the Cleveland Browns have dipped their toes in the UFL waters, signing former Lou Groza Award winner and St. Louis Battlehawks kicker Andre Szmyt.
Mike Mitchell | Dec 24, 2024
UFL Standout St. Louis Battlehawks Kicker Andre Szmyt / UFL/St. Louis Battlehawks
In this story:
The Cleveland Browns have added St. Louis Battlehawks kicker Andre Szmyt to their practice squad. The former Lou Groza Award winner and all-time leading scorer at Syracuse is coming off an impressive 2024 season in the UFL. Szmyt led the United Football League in points, successfully converting 19 of 21 field goals, with four kicks beyond 50 yards, including a 61-yard field goal.The Browns have seen their fair share of struggles from veteran placekicker Dustin Hopkins, who has missed nine of 25 field goals in 2024 for a career-low 64%. With two weeks remaining in the NFL regular season, Cleveland is out of playoff contention at 3-12. The Browns may turn to Szmyt in an audition for a potential roster spot in 2025.
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
fords contract is very tradeable
edit, I would like to see someone else wear the #34 anyway
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
-----
I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
I always like to read about guys like him. Special teams are a great opportunity for a rookie like him to impress people.
Here's video of a 6th round draft pick for Denver that had an injury plagued college career at Georgia trying to make the team as a rookie.
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
-----
I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
fords contract is very tradeable
edit, I would like to see someone else wear the #34 anyway
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I think that Ford has shown enough flashes that somebody is gonna have to flat out beat him out. I certainly don't think that Pierre Strong can do it.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
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