Unofficial 2025 Pre-Training Camp Roster & Depth Charts
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Shifting gears, the area I am most worried about on defense is the Secondary. Denzel Ward is another guy that can't afford the next concussion; and we weren't that great at the back end last year when he did play. Not saying it was his fault, there's issues at Corner and Safety IMO. Here's the 3 Defensive Depth Charts re-pasted if needed. Any thoughts, rumors, or doable solutions guys? @tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary. I still learn stuff about coverages and the back tier from you in my 60s:
@tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
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@tiamat63 - if you got the time - I would love to read what you have to say about our secondary.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
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For starters, I always look front to back - in to out. The IDL is catching my widest eye at the moment. Maleik Collins + a rookie, even a talented rookie, is not inspiring.
I would actually expect Shelby Harris to get the nod at 1tech. Collins has a stretch of being inconsistent and ineffective on early downs. Something I'll be digging into film wise before training camp. Harris' health is important, because if he drops, we have problems.
Sam Kamara might be the silent producer as a sub IDL interior rusher.
I mentioned that as far back as last year's pre-season.
If this defense wants a couple of DPRs, then one edge and one interior is fantastic. I'd expect Kamara to fill that role.
As for the secondary, you've read my posts here and we've spoken about it. I have concerns because of the lack of contrast in talent. We still lack a true middle-field presence, or at least any to take that next step forward. We also have players who lose their eyes and their marks playing in 2 high roles.
Ward can function in whichever role we need. Newsome *should* be the best CB on roster and one of the best in the NFL, but he's hasn't reached his potential.
Emerson's weaknesses are well known. If not, anyone can read my article here...
https://brainyballers.com/martin-emersons-struggles-hyde-meets-jekyll/
The larger tie-in between these groups is this - Schwartz as a DC in Cleveland is far removed from who he was in Philly and Tennessee. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a disastrous thing.
Schwartz used to be a coach who generated his pressures with creative four man rushes and rarely surrendered numbers on the back end. His blitz rates were low and he relied on the front to do it's job. Vic Fangio and Schwartz are (we're) of a similar mindset in that respect. The criticism being that if the front didn't get home or move the QB, it was a long day.
Now the single high is dominant, blitz rates are high, to the point the aggression is being used against them ( see; Houston debacle) and it exposes Emerson along with our safeties more than anyone.
I mentioned more split field coverages might help. But at the end of the day, unless you have overwhelming talent, like Philly's Dline, you're going to have give and take. I'd like to see more cover 5 this year on passing downs. I think that would be the best way to start addressing multiple issues with one Approach.
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
So did Bill Belichick with the inside-out thing with great success.
Too bad Michael Hall Jr got injured last season (this January). It sounds like he'll be ready for action when the regular season starts. At what percent of who he was pre-injury remains to be seen though. If healthy, that would be a pretty damn good tandem inside. IMO, shutting down the run is always important in the AFC North. When Derrick Henry accelerates on into the 2nd tier we've seen him end a very promising career in our LBer Corps. That said, when he played for the Titans - there were times the Browns matched up well against him. I've seen them stop him on 3rd and 1 and 4th and inches. With him in Baltimore - it's a bigger challenge...
Bigger challenge for two reasons with Baltimore.
- Better OL
- QB centric running offense.
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And now something completely different: From Dec '24 Hopkins completely 'lost it' last year. I think we should get away from someone who can play that badly. This kid's a Lou Groza award winner. I used to like Lou Groza.
Cleveland Browns Sign St. Louis Battlehawks Standout Kicker Andre Szmyt
On the heels (or feet) of the continued NFL success of spring pro football's top kickers, the Cleveland Browns have dipped their toes in the UFL waters, signing former Lou Groza Award winner and St. Louis Battlehawks kicker Andre Szmyt.
Mike Mitchell | Dec 24, 2024
UFL Standout St. Louis Battlehawks Kicker Andre Szmyt / UFL/St. Louis Battlehawks
In this story:
The Cleveland Browns have added St. Louis Battlehawks kicker Andre Szmyt to their practice squad. The former Lou Groza Award winner and all-time leading scorer at Syracuse is coming off an impressive 2024 season in the UFL. Szmyt led the United Football League in points, successfully converting 19 of 21 field goals, with four kicks beyond 50 yards, including a 61-yard field goal.The Browns have seen their fair share of struggles from veteran placekicker Dustin Hopkins, who has missed nine of 25 field goals in 2024 for a career-low 64%. With two weeks remaining in the NFL regular season, Cleveland is out of playoff contention at 3-12. The Browns may turn to Szmyt in an audition for a potential roster spot in 2025.
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
fords contract is very tradeable
edit, I would like to see someone else wear the #34 anyway
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
-----
I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
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I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
I always like to read about guys like him. Special teams are a great opportunity for a rookie like him to impress people.
Here's video of a 6th round draft pick for Denver that had an injury plagued college career at Georgia trying to make the team as a rookie.
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That’s why Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report believes Marshall could make the 53-man roster.
“The Cleveland Browns don’t need a third rookie running back on the roster. Even so, Appalachian State’s Ahmani Marshall presents something different compared to Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson,” Sobleski wrote. “He’s a well-built ball-carrier who can and will run through first contact. He makes quick and decisive downhill cuts as an efficient runner. He didn’t even become a full-time lead back until late into his final season on campus, when he posted five straight 100-yard games to finish his career.”
there have been positive reports about him during OTAs
-----
I posted about this guy's run of 100 yard rushing games when we signed him. And his 6'1 225 size. But how many RB's can we keep?
fords contract is very tradeable
edit, I would like to see someone else wear the #34 anyway
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I think that Ford has shown enough flashes that somebody is gonna have to flat out beat him out. I certainly don't think that Pierre Strong can do it.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
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I think that Ford has shown enough flashes that somebody is gonna have to flat out beat him out. I certainly don't think that Pierre Strong can do it.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
The guy who averaged 5.4 yards per carry last season and is good for about 40 receptions a season?
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Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
The guy who averaged 5.4 yards per carry last season and is good for about 40 receptions a season?
The guy who averaged 5.4 yards per carry last season and is good for about 40 receptions a season?
Ford isn't as bad as people make him out to be sometimes. He had to replace fan fave Nick Chubb which is no easy task. The 1 thing Ford did that made fans' skin crawl (mine included) was turn something like a 3 yard loss into a 45 yard loss. There were other times he turned what should have been a short loss into a bigger loss. Next thing we know - the Browns fired Stump Mitchell and hired Duce Staley.
If you track Ford's college career, he ended up transferring out of Alabama to the University of Cincinnati. During the 2021 season when they went to the BCS playoffs - he scored 20 TDs in 13 games while rushing for over 1319 yards at 6.2 yards per carry with 19 TDs & catching 21 passes for 220 yards with 1 TD. The year before he transferred, he averaged 6.6 yards per carry so there were things to tap - and Cincy did that. At this level, I think he deserves to compete for a roster spot against some very good competition. Let's see what happens...
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The guy who averaged 5.4 yards per carry last season and is good for about 40 receptions a season?
Ford isn't as bad as people make him out to be sometimes. He had to replace fan fave Nick Chubb which is no easy task. The 1 thing Ford did that made fans' skin crawl (mine included) was turn something like a 3 yard loss into a 45 yard loss. There were other times he turned what should have been a short loss into a bigger loss. Next thing we know - the Browns fired Stump Mitchell and hired Duce Staley.
If you track Ford's college career, he ended up transferring out of Alabama to the University of Cincinnati. During the 2021 season when they went to the BCS playoffs - he scored 20 TDs in 13 games while rushing for over 1319 yards at 6.2 yards per carry with 19 TDs & catching 21 passes for 220 yards with 1 TD. The year before he transferred, he averaged 6.6 yards per carry so there were things to tap - and Cincy did that. At this level, I think he deserves to compete for a roster spot against some very good competition. Let's see what happens...
Ford isn't as bad as people make him out to be sometimes. He had to replace fan fave Nick Chubb which is no easy task. The 1 thing Ford did that made fans' skin crawl (mine included) was turn something like a 3 yard loss into a 45 yard loss. There were other times he turned what should have been a short loss into a bigger loss. Next thing we know - the Browns fired Stump Mitchell and hired Duce Staley.
If you track Ford's college career, he ended up transferring out of Alabama to the University of Cincinnati. During the 2021 season when they went to the BCS playoffs - he scored 20 TDs in 13 games while rushing for over 1319 yards at 6.2 yards per carry with 19 TDs & catching 21 passes for 220 yards with 1 TD. The year before he transferred, he averaged 6.6 yards per carry so there were things to tap - and Cincy did that. At this level, I think he deserves to compete for a roster spot against some very good competition. Let's see what happens...
Honestly he'll make a good backup RB to Judkins this season.
He's not a 250 carry a season guy, but he's a good complement RB, and after the season he'll be done with his rookie contract and will move on to somewhere else.
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I think that Ford has shown enough flashes that somebody is gonna have to flat out beat him out. I certainly don't think that Pierre Strong can do it.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid. Trade him or drop him. Waste of a roster space IMO.
Ford also shows flashes of running into traffic that vision could have helped him avoid.
Yup....that's him too.
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I have no reason to believe Sampson and even Marshall won't push Ford for playing time. The only advantage he currently brings over them is knowing the offensive language, play structure and his roles in pass pro.
Beyond that he's an average to below average ball carrier.
If they pickup the details fast as rookies, they will end up taking over for him. But like Dutch said, barring miracle improvement, he's gone next year.
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I know the Browns had no idea Sanders was going to fall to the 5th round, but I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now. Ohio State's LB Cody Simon and DE Jack Sawyer were still on the board, as was South Carolina's DE Kyle Kennard and Notre Dame's safety Xavier Watts. Plus many OLinemen on a team desperate for young OLinemen.
I think the QB room has to be Flacco and Sanders, but it is early, we'll see how things look during training camp.
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I know the Browns had no idea Sanders was going to fall to the 5th round, but I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now. Ohio State's LB Cody Simon and DE Jack Sawyer were still on the board, as was South Carolina's DE Kyle Kennard and Notre Dame's safety Xavier Watts. Plus many OLinemen on a team desperate for young OLinemen.
I think the QB room has to be Flacco and Sanders, but it is early, we'll see how things look during training camp.
I know the Browns had no idea Sanders was going to fall to the 5th round, but I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now. Ohio State's LB Cody Simon and DE Jack Sawyer were still on the board, as was South Carolina's DE Kyle Kennard and Notre Dame's safety Xavier Watts. Plus many OLinemen on a team desperate for young OLinemen.
I think the QB room has to be Flacco and Sanders, but it is early, we'll see how things look during training camp.
I can’t fault them for sticking to their plan. The best you can hope for from the FO is to do the legwork to have a plan, the stick to-it-iveness to stick to the plan, and the flexibility to smartly alter that plan when opportunity knocks the door down.
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I know the Browns had no idea Sanders was going to fall to the 5th round, but I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now. Ohio State's LB Cody Simon and DE Jack Sawyer were still on the board, as was South Carolina's DE Kyle Kennard and Notre Dame's safety Xavier Watts. Plus many OLinemen on a team desperate for young OLinemen.
I think the QB room has to be Flacco and Sanders, but it is early, we'll see how things look during training camp.
I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now.
I hear ya. But we have to remember that they had Gabriel as the #2 QB in the draft. Be it right or wrong...
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I'm starting to really loathe them taking Gabriel in the 3rd round now.
I hear ya. But we have to remember that they had Gabriel as the #2 QB in the draft. Be it right or wrong...
I hear ya. But we have to remember that they had Gabriel as the #2 QB in the draft. Be it right or wrong...
In poker, you don't plan your hand. You're playing the hand of the man across from you.
If the Browns had Gabe as the #2 QB and a 3rd round value, but the consensus around the league with professional contacts wasn't the same - then they unnecessarily overpaid.
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