Mangini: Worst coaching hire ever?
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Mort on Twitter:
mortreport: Mike & Mike, comparing Belichick & Mangini, said Belichick changed. Don't agree. He was 5-11 1st year in NE. Only thing changed was winning.
9 minutes ago from web
So, NE took our leftovers, stuck with him through a 5 win season, and they are where they are today. Hmmmm.
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I'm going to go out on limb an actually support Mangini and Lerner.
I refuse to be a miserble human being and second guess every decision made by the Browns.
My only expertise is in areas other than the NFL management, so my opinions are soley that.
I don't like how the Browns are viewed right now, but i'm disgusted with the media trying run a guy out of town after 3 games.
Mangini is far from the worst hire, you would think that he had an outline of items and issues that needed to be addressed in order to bring the Browns back to NFL minimum standards at least. This won't happen overnight. We can point fingers at just about everybody and be somewhat right. But there is no conspiracy to sabotage the Browns, the players need to perform on game day.
If that means our QB needs to adjust his skillset to Dabolls playcalling so be it.
Million dollar atheletes have to answer to someone and those who don't can hit the road.
There has got to be structured leadership, and the leadership needs to be respected, not questioned. No i'm not a season ticket holder and the only thing i have vested in being a fan is my time and cash for the games i do attend. But when you look at the big picture, it's still just a game. If we lasted as long as we did with RAC can this be any worse?
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I'm going to go out on limb an actually support Mangini and Lerner.
I refuse to be a miserble human being and second guess every decision made by the Browns.
My only expertise is in areas other than the NFL management, so my opinions are soley that.
I don't like how the Browns are viewed right now, but i'm disgusted with the media trying run a guy out of town after 3 games.
Mangini is far from the worst hire, you would think that he had an outline of items and issues that needed to be addressed in order to bring the Browns back to NFL minimum standards at least. This won't happen overnight. We can point fingers at just about everybody and be somewhat right. But there is no conspiracy to sabotage the Browns, the players need to perform on game day.
If that means our QB needs to adjust his skillset to Dabolls playcalling so be it.
Million dollar atheletes have to answer to someone and those who don't can hit the road.
There has got to be structured leadership, and the leadership needs to be respected, not questioned. No i'm not a season ticket holder and the only thing i have vested in being a fan is my time and cash for the games i do attend. But when you look at the big picture, it's still just a game. If we lasted as long as we did with RAC can this be any worse?
I'm going to go out on limb an actually support Mangini and Lerner.
I refuse to be a miserble human being and second guess every decision made by the Browns.
My only expertise is in areas other than the NFL management, so my opinions are soley that.
I don't like how the Browns are viewed right now, but i'm disgusted with the media trying run a guy out of town after 3 games.
Mangini is far from the worst hire, you would think that he had an outline of items and issues that needed to be addressed in order to bring the Browns back to NFL minimum standards at least. This won't happen overnight. We can point fingers at just about everybody and be somewhat right. But there is no conspiracy to sabotage the Browns, the players need to perform on game day.
If that means our QB needs to adjust his skillset to Dabolls playcalling so be it.
Million dollar atheletes have to answer to someone and those who don't can hit the road.
There has got to be structured leadership, and the leadership needs to be respected, not questioned. No i'm not a season ticket holder and the only thing i have vested in being a fan is my time and cash for the games i do attend. But when you look at the big picture, it's still just a game. If we lasted as long as we did with RAC can this be any worse?
To each his own hammer i will not support this owner anymore and i wont be a miserable human being for second guessing this crackpot that inherited the team and the bad regimes he has let squander it...
The way i look at is if people dont stand up and quit supporting this bum nothing is going to change if the fans dont at minimal make it clear to lerner by lower revenues and low attendence that we want real change then 10 years from now its likely the browns will have either not been to the playoffs or only made it once to the first round...
As far as dabolls playcalling goes that seems to have been exclusively for bq i would love to see DA or even payton manning get roped into that scheme with any success..
Im not for giving mangini another minute longer to prove himself than he gave bq before throwing him under the bus and blaming him for dabolls worthless scheme unless he owns up to his own accountability and discipline rules i will enjoy watching DA rid us of yet another regime that believes moving the ball the other direction is the way to go and watching this team quit like they would never have done on rac
How do you get your players to trust you when you dont even follow or own up to your own creed?
You dont..
How can you keep your job without player or fan support?
You cant...
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@inspecta said:
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.
When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
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Great post chip....really, BUT, to your point.....("""""Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems."""") and (he's had a chance to turn it over.) I agree, BUT, I look at what happened in this last draft and it scares the FKN crap out of me....a Center with the first pick? there's no doubt you(EM) are telling everyone that I'm(em) building a foundation here in Cleveland But a center??? He better be all fkn world for the next ten years!!! ......I'm truly not hopeful that this year's draft picks will do much.... which brings me to my biggest fear...what he'll do in next year's draft.
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@inspecta said:
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.
When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
Congrats Chip, you just owned 95% of people complaining on this board, myself included.
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@inspecta said:
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.
When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
From Pluto:
When will we begin to see some production from high picks such as Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi and David Veikune? They were selected No. 36, No. 50 and No. 52. At least two of them should be receiving something resembling regular duty for a team that is constantly 4-12.
Fans have been howling about the success of Mark Sanchez with the Jets. Maybe he would be playing well had the Browns kept the fifth pick. But since 1999, this franchise has yet to prove it can support any quarterback.
Which brings up Mangini’s reluctance to settle on a quarterback.
Brady Quinn was benched after 10 quarters. Derek Anderson played the second half of the 34-3 loss at Baltimore, and threw three interceptions.
This is the guy Drafting for our Future....I have to question his evaluation process(to say the LEAST)
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Every guy Lerner hires is tthe worst hiring ever.... It's been proven in lab studies.
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@inspecta said:
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.
When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
.........
That was a great post, and I'm guilty of most of what you talked about. BUT, Mangini is not BB. My concern is his choices of coaches. He picked a DC who has a history of being run on, and a green OC to oversee a QB competition. Then he drags rookies off on a bus ride for a camp that he flew to (yeah he took the bus home,) than he goes all hocus pocus on the QB competition (all part of the 'process',) then he gets grilled for fining players the maximum, and now he goes back on his word and yanks the QB.
He passed up a pretty rabid LB (Malauga) for a WR (Robo) that seemingly isn't as good as the WR he took next (MoMass), and neither have contributed. I agree with getting value for KW, but Robert Royal sucks.
When you come to a team like the Browns, you're supposed to improve things, not make them worse. This team is not better off than last season, I can clearly see that. The QB is the least of my worries. Crap OL on the right, can't stop the run or run the ball, give up tons of yards.....
I mean really, what has changed for the better? Players aren't stealing Pepsi from the hotel rooms?
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Good responses. Look, I'm not saying that I like what I see. I liked the draft day strategy, but the Mack and Robiskie picks are scaring me. Venkuine has a motor but he looked like he'll struggle mightily if he's forced to cover anyone. I like Davis, Maiva and Francies, though. Let's judge the passing on ReyRey and such for a few years. I seem to remember Cincy drafting a high risk LBer or two that looked like a genius move in the first year and not so much in the second. And we didn't draft Crabtree!
I can't say that I'm real impressed with the free agent class. But 3 games into the season I'm not going to declare disaster and pin it on Mangini.
What I refuse do accept is an argument that we should even consider whether any player has quit on Mangini after three games as an indictment of Mangini. Flat out, I don't want that guy on the team that I support and it's a shame that Mangini or any coach would inherit such a "player".
A lot of people in the media seemed to have a hard on for Mangini and smell blood. But it's way too early to help them pile on this guy. People seem to become their opinions even if they are formed hastily.
Pulling Quinn is not gross mismanagement. People act like a young QB is some fragile piece of glass artwork. Great QBs have had to battle for their jobs in the past. Aikman/Walsh comes to mind. Kurt Warner wasn't just handed a job. Drew Brees flourished when the team tried to kick him to the curb. Numerous coddled QBs have failed: Carr and Harrington come immediately to mind. Maybe the Cardinals should have given Leinert more time to struggle? Closer to home . . . was a developing Brian Sipe coddled? If Quinn is Aikman he'll win the war even if he's lost a battle. Coaches and teammates will see qualities in him even in losses that will win their trust. If he's Walsh he'll complain that the war should have ended when he won his first battle. Confidence comes from within . . . it can't be manufactured. In a winner it can't be easily destroyed.
Like every other player on the field, it is Quinn's job to earn the coach's trust -- not just to win a QB competition by default. Or be handed a job due to draft status.
With respect to the rest of the roster, Mangini has to evaluate the veterans on this team before he turns to getting the rookies their needed experience. It's just impossible to turn over an entire roster in a year or even two, so he needs to identify his keepers before he just turns PT over to rookies. You need to see it in games, not practice. The vets look to be accelerating that window, though. I expect that we'll see more Robiskie, Venkunie, Maiava, Davis, MassMo and Francies beginning after the bye week. I think we need to give it at least to the end of the year to even start talking about this year's draft busts.
Tucker's landing on the IR coupled with the early-season injury to Hadnot are not injuries that this team was deep enough to absorb. If you had said that we'd see Fraley playing right guard in week 2, we'd all know there was a problem. But if history tells us anything, it will be that Mangini will look to address this next season from the inside out. I do trust that.
Lerner needs to help Koki and Mangini by getting them the best scouts money can buy to make hey with those high picks we'll have next year. If we still have the guy that scouted the Big 12 for Savage, he needs to be the first to go.
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There is nothing to be scared about the Mack pick. He is developing as expected. The G's around him aren't the best, but you gotta start somewhere.
Now Robiskie on the otherhand........Remember, it was MMass that was supposed to be the "bad" pick.
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@inspecta said:
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.[/b]Man ain't that the truth. I said it in another thread that Belichick is not interested in creating a coaching tree or equipping his assistants to be coaches one day. Again I hate to say it but Rich and G H O O L I E did get this one right, everybody under Belichick is nothing more than a coffee fetcher.
When will Lerner get it through his thick skull to stop hiring BB castoffs?
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
AMAZING!!!!
But do you know why this essay will never work Chip Banks? Because it will end the conversation. And then what would WKNR do all day? What would half of the drunks on this board sitting at home do? Sure they would still have porn in one browser window, but what about the other? Fantasy football? Madden tips? Yahoo messenger? We need these conversations!!
I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.
-
Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?
Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?
Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????
Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.
Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.
Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.
Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.
Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.
Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.
Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?
One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.
I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.
AMAZING!!!!
But do you know why this essay will never work Chip Banks? Because it will end the conversation. And then what would WKNR do all day? What would half of the drunks on this board sitting at home do? Sure they would still have porn in one browser window, but what about the other? Fantasy football? Madden tips? Yahoo messenger? We need these conversations!!
I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.
AMAZING!!!!
I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.
Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.
The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.
-
I'm sorry but when I think of changing a culture I think of Singletary in SF, of Gruden in OAK, Parcells just about everywhere he goes, Vermiel in STL, ect....
Like when you see a QB after 3 games and think maybe he isn't a playmaker? I'm like that with coaches. We have Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan all sitting on the sideline.
I worry because everything Jets fans warned us about is kind of coming true.
-
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......
Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...
Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....
Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......
Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..
We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..
-
The fact is this franchise was reborn on a foundation of quick sand
it's swallowed up every coach,every gm ,every player that's come in contact with it
You can blame that on Carmon Policy, Al Lerner or Dwight Clark they all had a hand in fcking this franchise up from the start
I can't stand Mangini,but firing him would only continue to add to the misery that this organization has become and rightfully
place us at the bottom BELOW the Detroits and Oaklands of the NFL
One thing we know from the Stealers is that stability leads to success
One thing we know from the Raiders,and the Lions is that constant turnover equals failure
As much as I dislike Mangini ,it's apparent to me that
A) While he lacks personality I don't believe he's an idiot (like Crennel)
B)The man is obsessive about his work,and won't stop until he finds the answer he's looking for
C) The pained look on his face on Sundays tell me he hates losing as much as we do
Unfortunately ,we're going to have to suffer while this man finishes the job Slo Lerner hired him to do,
that means its going to get worse before it gets better
-
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......
Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...
Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....
Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......
Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..
We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.
-
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.
I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.
roger that chipper
-
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......
Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...
Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....
Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......
Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..
We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..
1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax
1996 Carolina NFC West champion
1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game
I am assuming you realize both of those teams got an expansion draft off of NFL rosters and as well as 2 picks in the 1st round of the draft. No expansion team has had either of those benefits since then.
-
AMAZING!!!!
I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.
Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.
The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.
Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.
The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.
I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.
Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey
Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins
49ers- we'll see
Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie
Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.
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