Mangini: Worst coaching hire ever?

[mopaji]

@chip-banks said:

Wait a minute, wasn't Belichick the worst coach hire EVER in this town at one point?

Three games. A horrid roster. Two QBs that Savage drafted in his run of Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, Derek Anderson, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Ken Dorsey run of QB evaluation incompetence?

Let me get this straight. We have a player's coach who a team can't win for and we bring in a BBesque prick and now the speculation is the players will not play for him. And this is the COACH's problem????

Who the hell on this roster thinks he has the kind of talent to put out tape that shows he is a quitter and will have a second chance with any other team? The list is pretty short. If the other guys would rather sell insurance, I'd welcome their career change.

Three games. BB had a much better roster when he took over the Patriots, lost his first 4 games, and went 5-11 in his first season. We beat them in our second year off expansion, at which point they had a record of 2-8! I remember reading and hearing the brilliant football minds in Cleveland media and fandom saying "good old BB" what an idiot Kraft is for giving that loser a second chance. Dig down and admit to yourself if you were one of those astute football minds.

Mangini has to reverse a culture. He came in with a terrible roster, virtually no draft picks, two below average QBs, and looming salary cap problems. He inherited a "starting" QB who didn't have the support of the roster as evidenced by the Smith incident. His #2 receiver (who isn't very good) killed a guy the day after he got his roster bonus. The only run-blocking offensive lineman that he inherited that can move a pile (Tucker) turned out not to be all in physically or mentally). Now people are ready to hang him after 3 games? Against teams that are a combined 9-0.

Typical knee-jerk Cleveland fan reaction.

Let's tell ourselves that Bernie's skill hadn't really diminished and forget the fact that when Marino got injured the nest season with Bernie as the back-up the Dolphins immediately made a trade for a so-so backup QB to start ahead of Bernie. Let's pretend that Vinny "Intercepteverde" didn't have some really good (pro bowl -worthy) years with Jets. Let's forget that BB pulled a similar move in NE in keeping the popular Bledsoe on the bench in favor of Brady. Let's pretend that BB wasn't ridiculed when he said that he doesn't believe in drafting QBs high and sacrificing time developing them for some other team (ummmm . . . . Brady, Cassell). BB does everything he did as a Browns coach now, but let's delude ourselves and go with the line that he learned from his mistakes so we can justify having called the guy a bum.

Remember how Arians was holding back the great Tim Couch? We could never win with him as our O-coordinator. Between Arians and BB, we're now what 5 SB victories removed.

Remember how Jeff Garcia was so horrible that no team could win with him? Hmmm. Was that two pro bowls and a fantastic playoff run ago?

One thing I've learned from being a Browns fan is that media sentiment and the fan reaction that usually follows has an uncanny knack of being proven ridiculously wrong.

I'm going with the odds on this one. I'm not backing this ridiculous excuse for a roster of players. That they can't make a tackle or get off a block is not Mangini's fault -- at least until he keeps them on the roster after he's had a chance to turn it over.

AMAZING!!!!

But do you know why this essay will never work Chip Banks? Because it will end the conversation. And then what would WKNR do all day? What would half of the drunks on this board sitting at home do? Sure they would still have porn in one browser window, but what about the other? Fantasy football? Madden tips? Yahoo messenger? We need these conversations!!

I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.

[lemosley01]

@mopaji said:

AMAZING!!!!

I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.

Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.

[Vegasdogg]

I'm sorry but when I think of changing a culture I think of Singletary in SF, of Gruden in OAK, Parcells just about everywhere he goes, Vermiel in STL, ect....

Like when you see a QB after 3 games and think maybe he isn't a playmaker? I'm like that with coaches. We have Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan all sitting on the sideline.

I worry because everything Jets fans warned us about is kind of coming true.

[yosemitejam]

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......

Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...

Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....

Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......

Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..

We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..

[BrownB499]

The fact is this franchise was reborn on a foundation of quick sand

it's swallowed up every coach,every gm ,every player that's come in contact with it

You can blame that on Carmon Policy, Al Lerner or Dwight Clark they all had a hand in fcking this franchise up from the start

I can't stand Mangini,but firing him would only continue to add to the misery that this organization has become and rightfully

place us at the bottom BELOW the Detroits and Oaklands of the NFL

One thing we know from the Stealers is that stability leads to success

One thing we know from the Raiders,and the Lions is that constant turnover equals failure

As much as I dislike Mangini ,it's apparent to me that

A) While he lacks personality I don't believe he's an idiot (like Crennel)

B)The man is obsessive about his work,and won't stop until he finds the answer he's looking for

C) The pained look on his face on Sundays tell me he hates losing as much as we do

Unfortunately ,we're going to have to suffer while this man finishes the job Slo Lerner hired him to do,

that means its going to get worse before it gets better

[Chip Banks]

@yosemitejam said:

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.

[yosemitejam]

@chip-banks said:

I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.

roger that chipper

[Masters]

@yosemitejam said:

1995 expansion teams: Carolina and Jax

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

I am assuming you realize both of those teams got an expansion draft off of NFL rosters and as well as 2 picks in the 1st round of the draft. No expansion team has had either of those benefits since then.

[mopaji]

@lemosley01 said:

Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.

I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

@jadbf said:

Bump, just to get the gay love fest threads off the top of the list.

speaking of gay love fest threads: doesn't brady look super cute with his hair in his eyes?

[lemosley01]

@mopaji said:

I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

[mopaji]

@lemosley01 said:

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

You'll know in two years what your roster will be but you won't know if your heading in the right direction for at least 3

QB developement doesn't take 5 years it should take closer to 2 or 2-1/2 and I am for giving either QB at least an entire season in this system. Even Brady and I hate his game. I wanted him in all year so we could get a good look at his progression so I'm against that move. But flipping a team and creating an entirely new culture does take 5 years. This isn't a PS3 game you can't just sim the season and go make a bowl of cereal until your roster is developed and ready. We are slaves to an actual calender and real money here and so it does take a little time and we will have to encounter all of the bumps that come with it.

[Vegasdogg]

@lemosley01 said:

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

I don't know what the answer is anymore. And while I'm sure Cam is a great OC and needed to be fired, I do known the Dolphins are 0-3 and without a franchise QB. Henne may develop but who knows. But I like their 0-3 more than how ww got to our 0-3. We've been blown the fook out and that is a direct reflection on coaching. Whatever Mangini is doing he needs to change it.

[razor1414]

Just caught Jim Rome talking about our beloved brownies. He is not impressed with Mangini, rome says the browns are worse off now then we they came back 10 years ago. Basically called mangini an a-hole and said players hate him. Im parphrasing of course.

[DaBrowns41]

I'd like to give him the benefit of a doubt, and give him a chance, but players don't want to play with a coach that takes things too far.

I agreed when the hire is made that he bringing discipline would be a great thing, but he's taking it too far.

He needs to earn the respect of his players if he wants them to play football.

[Solon16]

@ Mopaji ...."""I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum."""

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

[mopaji]

@solon16 said:

@ Mopaji ...."""I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum."""

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

I guess I kinda agree with you 5 years is a while. But you also said that nobody has ever gotten 5 years here so how do you know it doesn't work? Because the other way certainly hasn't. And it worked for Jeff Fischer and Bill Cowher. But I'm not saying he will get 5 years I'm saying he needs 5 years. That doesn't go for just Mangini that would apply to anybody who took this job. As you said above, this two year thing has never worked for us. This organization doesn't have decades invested in a team or a philosophy. Don't forget, this Browns orginization is only 10 years old. And we're already on our 2nd owner and 4th coach. You cannot tell me that is a recipe for success. I don't care what other teams have done they are not us. I'm looking at the Browns. That's like saying Braylon should be breaking records by now because Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison did in this point of their careers. And jeez, look at the talent on those teams compared to ours. They have that talent because those organizations have been following a plan for some time now. The Browns have switched visions every two years. You cannot build a team like that and you said it yourself. So why really, are you disagreeing with me? You basically said everything I did. I think I also said somewhere that after 5 years if the team sucks, you fire him. But at least we will have something established to build off of then. You cannot take a pop-warner team and turn them into a competitive NFL team in two years.

[Solon16]

I guess I kinda agree with you 5 years is a while. But you also said that nobody has ever gotten 5 years here so how do you know it doesn't work?

Ummm....because those that did WON! lol

""""I'm saying he needs 5 years... That doesn't go for just Mangini that would apply to anybody who took this job."""""""

And i think that's BS!

"""2nd owner and 4th coach. You cannot tell me that is a recipe for success,,,, look at the talent on those teams compared to ours."""' I've answered that

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison did in this point of their careers..........look at the QB's they had....

after 5 years if the team sucks, you fire him...NO! That's what the Browns have done...if this guy doesn't Evaluate, Motivate and inspire his team....CAN HIM. Because this is the guy Drafting for our future....If he can't evaluate...Please don't let him draft....this is why 10 years out and the most horrific drafting in the league, we are where we are....Plain and simple. If davis hit on his draft picks or savage/ hit....Davis would probably still be here and so would Rac.

"But at least we will have something established to build off of then."

That don't work either cause new regime comes in and....Purges team and gets guys They want... ( WE NEED TO DRAFT 1000% better to be a competitive team...and we have sucked ass at it for a decade....and with this past years " evaluation" I'm scarred as shit this is the "team" thats gonna continue drafting for us!!! NO!

[jet fan _ rscherwin]

Good topic (and greetings as a newbie)

As a Jet fan, it's strange not being the team with the worst coach. Here are 2 worse hires than the Mangini hire.

Rich Kotite - We fired Pete Carrol after he dropped the last couple of games, starting with the fake-spike game, knocking us out of the playoffs as the 6-5 Jets went to 6-10. Citing the late season flop as the reason, Leon Hess hired Rich Kotite, who that same season coached the 7-2 Eagles to a 7-9 record.

Herm Edwards - You had to have lived it. There will never, ever, ever, be a worse coach than this joke / imbecile. He was so bad, that Mangini really looked like a genius in year one.

Herm Edwards - granted his KC hire was cronyism, but there wasn't an educated Jet fan that would not have bet their firstborn that Herm would take the record breaking KC offense and destroy it by season 2, making "rebuilding" excuses in the process. Getting Leon in return for him has lightened our pain a bit.

Hey Brown fans - good luck this year climbing out of this one!

[Solon16]

@dabrowns41 said:

I'd like to give him the benefit of a doubt, and give him a chance, but players don't want to play with a coach that takes things too far.

I agreed when the hire is made that he bringing discipline would be a great thing, but he's taking it too far.

He needs to earn the respect of his players if he wants them to play football.

100 % agree....I gave him the benefit of the doubt....for 6 months....even after that draft day debacle....turns out he only inspires disdain!