To Shedeur, or not to Shedeur? (draft)
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I'm not sold on Sanders... But I am willing to give him next season under the right conditions... But 2 things are glaring and bothersome... He still pats the ball and telegraphs his throws... 2nd... He still goes backwards instead of up in the pocket... He may become a game manager... But I don't see him as ever being elite... Give him next year... solidify the WR unit and O line... Shoot for Sayin in 27...
I'm not sold on Sanders... But I am willing to give him next season under the right conditions... But 2 things are glaring and bothersome... He still pats the ball and telegraphs his throws... 2nd... He still goes backwards instead of up in the pocket... He may become a game manager... But I don't see him as ever being elite... Give him next year... solidify the WR unit and O line... Shoot for Sayin in 27...
I get the feeling a lot of us aren't all that far apart. We haven't seen enough starts to be sold on him. Nothing you said is incorrect IMO. There's 2 guys that can get open: Bond & Fannin (also the RB staying in to the far right or left as the emergency check down) - with the 2 guys were sentenced to at OTackle in pass pro I get the feeling everybody watching the game knows who he is going to try to throw to. It's up to the FO to get better weapons for the QB. Understanding all that - did the Browns give him any more than the Dallas Cowboys gave Troy Aikman when he went 0-11 as an NFL rookie. Consequently, some of their fans actually wanted Steve Walsh instead. Within a few years they had Emmitt Smith, Moose Johnston, Michael Irvin, Jay Novacek and the best OL in the league - all of a sudden their fans were watching a HOF QB career launch while Dallas was about to win 3 SB Championships. Just bringing up the difference between an 0-11 Troy Aikman giving their fans football follies to one that was well protected with scoring weapons and attack pieces to make his job much easier and more efficient.
In the first 2 or 3 few starts there was the going backward frequently in the pocket you mentioned; but in recent games that's not as frequent imo - plus I've actually seen him stepping up in the pocket. Looking at how many holes there are on this roster on the OL (both OT spots, OG, WR, 2 CB, Safety, 1-2 more TEs) we can't afford to trade up even 1 spot. The Jets have 5 first round picks in the next 2 drafts that they'll have as intriguing trade bait to wave at the Raiders. If this FO can put together it's 2nd consecutive great draft addressing the needs/holes I mentioned - I think we can get a version of Shedeur Sanders many of us will feel more confident in. Unfortunately, Pittsburgh's strength on defense is their edges while the Browns' biggest weakness on offense is pass protection on the edges - gee, what could go wrong this week?
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I don’t see a generational talent at QB that will transform this franchise.
I’m very interested in holding a #1 or #2 overall pick hostage to the highest bidder. The Jets for one appear to be desperate now and have tons of draft capital. Sliding back into an appropriate spot for the OLine and WR prospects would be ideal while accumulating draft capital this year and next.
Tate and OT aren’t #2 overall caliber players.
This is gonna hurt but Shedeur is the best thing we’ve had since Baker (minus the remarkable two month run by old man Joe who ran Stefanski’s offense perfectly)
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I'm not sold on Sanders... But I am willing to give him next season under the right conditions... But 2 things are glaring and bothersome... He still pats the ball and telegraphs his throws... 2nd... He still goes backwards instead of up in the pocket... He may become a game manager... But I don't see him as ever being elite... Give him next year... solidify the WR unit and O line... Shoot for Sayin in 27...
He still goes backwards instead of up in the pocket...
Yeah, he hasn't totally stopped doing that but he's doing it much less...and once he scored a TD it. And how much of that is coming from pressure up the middle? There's certainly some of that. I heard a stat during the game that our RB's are hit behind the line more than any team in the league.
-- more Sanders thoughts:
He appears to have all of the necessary throws. Njoku's last reception for us, so far, was on a beautiful corner fade pass for the TD. (landed on his already injured knee) Sanders also made one to Fannin last week. He seems to be able to throw pretty accurately while on the move. And he's plenty 'football fast' when he decides he's going to run with it. I don't like when he doesn't slide...but the guy is auditioning to be the QB of the future against Fernando Mendoza. He's got to lay it all on the line right now.
IMO, the QB position comes down to this: (at this point in time, 2 games left)
Do you predict that the guy you would draft to replace him is going to be better than you predict Shedeur will be?
The answer to that question comes after you've had your pre-draft visits with the QB's. But I harken back to old sayings...A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Does the guy you have seem to check the boxes that you want checked? ( they don't get to be old sayings without having some truth to them )
I think, if the 2 final games go without Shedeur falling flat on his face, or getting broken to pieces, he's shown enough to have some trade value if we absolutely have to have the 1st round QB. ( that wouldn't be surprising if a new HC comes in )
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I'm not sold on Sanders... But I am willing to give him next season under the right conditions... But 2 things are glaring and bothersome... He still pats the ball and telegraphs his throws... 2nd... He still goes backwards instead of up in the pocket... He may become a game manager... But I don't see him as ever being elite... Give him next year... solidify the WR unit and O line... Shoot for Sayin in 27...
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I saw alot of improvement with that the more he played, but it is kinda hard to step up when there is no place to go
I realize the O line is what it is.. By the same token.. It could be helped if Sanders could not have that deer in headlights look at times and get the ball off sooner .. More wheel routes with Sampson would help a little.... With QJ out protection gets harder... But quit patting the ball so damn much..
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Mechanically speaking, when his feet are set and and he's throwing to a spot, I've been a big advocate for Sanders.
That said, the reason for the improvement has been because he initial reps were SO damn bad. Even then, most of what he has improved on his forcing himself to step up and stay in the pocket at times.
With that forcing, he's still lowering his eyes into the rush quite a bit. It's causing him to miss open targets downfield in favor of his eyes starting short to deep and not deep to short.
The other thing he has struggled with is turning his back to the defense on ball action, then getting his head around to find his key(s).
I haven't watched Dante' Moore, but I plan too. Mendoza, in my limited viewing, reminds me a good deal of Sam Bradford, the good AND the bad.
If Moore looks the part on film, I'd have zero hesitation drafting him. Again, provided there's a natural love of his game, and not addressing the position for the sake of need.
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One last sort of meaningless point...Shedeur has already become a fan favorite. Not that there's a ton of fans at the games, but there's a lot of #12 jerseys out there.
I think it started when he scrambled to the right to get away from immediate pressure up the middle...and while running towards the sideline he let loose a beautiful long ball right over the top to Bond that almost scored the TD. I know that I was affected by that play (as was Myles on the sideline). I had a flood of thoughts in that moment...like, What a beautiful pass on the run.....A QB that can make a defense pay for attacking the LOS....and all he did was to motion everyone to get down the field to get ready for the next play, like, This is what we do when that happens...because it happens from time to time.
And then the numbers that he put up against the Titans solidified his place with the fans.
Of course, that's got little to do with what they do at QB
And one last thing...( I feel like Columbo )...I like his number.
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I see Tia just mentioned that he lowers his eyes towards the rush. Again, he's a rookie with the worst OL in the league and big, fast, fat guys pounding through that OL. Who's internal clock wouldn't go off a tick early behind OUR OL?
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Mechanically speaking, when his feet are set and and he's throwing to a spot, I've been a big advocate for Sanders.
That said, the reason for the improvement has been because he initial reps were SO damn bad. Even then, most of what he has improved on his forcing himself to step up and stay in the pocket at times.
With that forcing, he's still lowering his eyes into the rush quite a bit. It's causing him to miss open targets downfield in favor of his eyes starting short to deep and not deep to short.
The other thing he has struggled with is turning his back to the defense on ball action, then getting his head around to find his key(s).
I haven't watched Dante' Moore, but I plan too. Mendoza, in my limited viewing, reminds me a good deal of Sam Bradford, the good AND the bad.
If Moore looks the part on film, I'd have zero hesitation drafting him. Again, provided there's a natural love of his game, and not addressing the position for the sake of need.
Mechanically speaking, when his feet are set and and he's throwing to a spot, I've been a big advocate for Sanders.
That said, the reason for the improvement has been because he initial reps were SO damn bad. Even then, most of what he has improved on his forcing himself to step up and stay in the pocket at times.
With that forcing, he's still lowering his eyes into the rush quite a bit. It's causing him to miss open targets downfield in favor of his eyes starting short to deep and not deep to short.
The other thing he has struggled with is turning his back to the defense on ball action, then getting his head around to find his key(s).
I haven't watched Dante' Moore, but I plan too. Mendoza, in my limited viewing, reminds me a good deal of Sam Bradford, the good AND the bad.
If Moore looks the part on film, I'd have zero hesitation drafting him. Again, provided there's a natural love of his game, and not addressing the position for the sake of need.
That's a great comparison Bradford/Mendoza... In the Big 10 Chapionship... He didn't look special too me and I saw it live and in person... But he made the plays he needed to make... I expect(if we meet in the Natti) a totally different game.....
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Sanders needs to clean up his short throws. he aims the ball. His throws are almost always high and many time behind the back.
In the end i see a average QB at best. If we get a top 2 pick we better take a QB.
The odds of getting a top flight QB drop significantly outside the 1st round. Even after the top 10-15 of the first round.
No doubt it stands to reason it drops for all positions as you move down in the rounds, but not as much. You can still get good receivers in the late 1st and 2nd rounds O line even a few rounds beyond that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Sanders needs to clean up his short throws. he aims the ball. His throws are almost always high and many time behind the back.
In the end i see a average QB at best. If we get a top 2 pick we better take a QB.
The odds of getting a top flight QB drop significantly outside the 1st round. Even after the top 10-15 of the first round.
No doubt it stands to reason it drops for all positions as you move down in the rounds, but not as much. You can still get good receivers in the late 1st and 2nd rounds O line even a few rounds beyond that.
Sanders needs to clean up his short throws. he aims the ball. His throws are almost always high and many time behind the back.
In the end i see a average QB at best. If we get a top 2 pick we better take a QB.
The odds of getting a top flight QB drop significantly outside the 1st round. Even after the top 10-15 of the first round.
No doubt it stands to reason it drops for all positions as you move down in the rounds, but not as much. You can still get good receivers in the late 1st and 2nd rounds O line even a few rounds beyond that.
So if the Browns end up with the #2 pick you would be comfortable taking a 20 year old with about 20 college starts in Dante Moore?
I can't think of many top flight NFL QBs who came into the pros that young and that inexperienced, and you know the Browns won't be patient and slowly bring him along. (This goes to @tiamat63 too)
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Sanders needs to clean up his short throws. he aims the ball. His throws are almost always high and many time behind the back.
In the end i see a average QB at best. If we get a top 2 pick we better take a QB.
The odds of getting a top flight QB drop significantly outside the 1st round. Even after the top 10-15 of the first round.
No doubt it stands to reason it drops for all positions as you move down in the rounds, but not as much. You can still get good receivers in the late 1st and 2nd rounds O line even a few rounds beyond that.
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Sanders needs to clean up his short throws. he aims the ball. His throws are almost always high and many time behind the back.
In the end i see a average QB at best. If we get a top 2 pick we better take a QB.
The odds of getting a top flight QB drop significantly outside the 1st round. Even after the top 10-15 of the first round.
No doubt it stands to reason it drops for all positions as you move down in the rounds, but not as much. You can still get good receivers in the late 1st and 2nd rounds O line even a few rounds beyond that.
So if the Browns end up with the #2 pick you would be comfortable taking a 20 year old with about 20 college starts in Dante Moore?
I can't think of many top flight NFL QBs who came into the pros that young and that inexperienced, and you know the Browns won't be patient and slowly bring him along. (This goes to @tiamat63 too)
So if the Browns end up with the #2 pick you would be comfortable taking a 20 year old with about 20 college starts in Dante Moore?
I can't think of many top flight NFL QBs who came into the pros that young and that inexperienced, and you know the Browns won't be patient and slowly bring him along. (This goes to @tiamat63 too)
My general rule of thumb is to never draft a QB with that few starts. But there are exceptions to every rule...
I don't think we can know that from a handful of games in his rookie season.
But do we believe Gabriel Dillon to be average or below average based on a similar sample size?
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So if the Browns end up with the #2 pick you would be comfortable taking a 20 year old with about 20 college starts in Dante Moore?
I can't think of many top flight NFL QBs who came into the pros that young and that inexperienced, and you know the Browns won't be patient and slowly bring him along. (This goes to @tiamat63 too)
My general rule of thumb is to never draft a QB with that few starts. But there are exceptions to every rule...
I don't think we can know that from a handful of games in his rookie season.
But do we believe Gabriel Dillon to be average or below average based on a similar sample size?
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from what i have seen in comparison to Sanders, YES
There-in lies the point. It isn't about the player comparison, but the sample size itself, using the same logic.
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i will put it this way then, I believe the ceiling is alot higher for Sanders than Dillions
I suppose I shouldn't have said "we", which was a more targeted plural.
What you're saying is, that Sanders has shown more in that same sample size than Gabriel. Which is perfectly fine.
I'm just being devils advocate here. If the sample size was good enough for Gabriel, yet not for Sanders, then we're not being consistent in our evaluations.
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i will put it this way then, I believe the ceiling is alot higher for Sanders than Dillions
I suppose I shouldn't have said "we", which was a more targeted plural.
What you're saying is, that Sanders has shown more in that same sample size than Gabriel. Which is perfectly fine.
I'm just being devils advocate here. If the sample size was good enough for Gabriel, yet not for Sanders, then we're not being consistent in our evaluations.
I suppose I shouldn't have said "we", which was a more targeted plural.
What you're saying is, that Sanders has shown more in that same sample size than Gabriel. Which is perfectly fine.
I'm just being devils advocate here. If the sample size was good enough for Gabriel, yet not for Sanders, then we're not being consistent in our evaluations.
I feel the ceiling is low for both at this point... But... I think a QB needs at least two seasons before you close the book on them..
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I suppose I shouldn't have said "we", which was a more targeted plural.
What you're saying is, that Sanders has shown more in that same sample size than Gabriel. Which is perfectly fine.
I'm just being devils advocate here. If the sample size was good enough for Gabriel, yet not for Sanders, then we're not being consistent in our evaluations.
I feel the ceiling is low for both at this point... But... I think a QB needs at least two seasons before you close the book on them..
I feel the ceiling is low for both at this point... But... I think a QB needs at least two seasons before you close the book on them..
You might be right, but I’m convinced that with this offense a rookie Aaron Rodgers would have looked rough too
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You draft a cockpit for Sanders and give him some outside weapons. Find an offensive minded QB oriented HC and staff (do we have any takers with Haslem $hit show?). Give Sanders another season. I’d feel confident at that point about whether the position is fixed or not.
If it isn’t you have a support in place for the next guy (personnel and staff) so we don’t have 27 QB prospects running for the hills to avoid us.
We are so bad you have to start somewhere I don’t think somewhere is a QB in 2026.
im intrigued by a guy like Taylen Green Arkansas who is raw as can be but has some some major tools. Give him a look in Day 3
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You might be right, but I’m convinced that with this offense a rookie Aaron Rodgers would have looked rough too
By the way, Aaron Rodgers had to wait 3 years to start on a better team than we have offensively.
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