Browns/Bengals According to Schein
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I for one am not "hating" on DA, I'm saying that he isn't a starter on a quality NFL team, so what is the point of playing him? Quinn has looked bad to date this year, but first, he's been in 3 tough games against undefeated teams, second, he looked good last year before injuring his finger, third, He's a #1 making a lot of money, and fourth, the team is going nowhere this year and so it's a year to evaluate people. All of this screams that the team should be playing Quinn and really ALL of the youngsters. I really fail to see the team's strategy here of playing journeyman-quality talent like DA. This team is going to lose at least 12 games no matter who it plays, so let's get the evaluation going...
IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.
Mia
Buf
Jax
K.C (Cassell is a bum)
Oak
Was
Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)
T.B
Stl
S.F
Sea
IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.
Mia
Buf
Jax
K.C (Cassell is a bum)
Oak
Was
Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)
T.B
Stl
S.F
Sea
Miami- Most likely, because he'd have a deep threat in Teddy. However, Tyler Thigpen was just acquired by the 'Fins and Thigpen started off rough last year, but played well against a few solid defenses and was threatening Cassel for the starting job, somehow.
Buffalo- No sir. Edwards has had a great start to this season, and even though he didn't have many TD's last season, he had a nice CP, and YPA despite the fact that he didn't have a true #1 receiver.
Jax- No QB would succeed with last years OL. Not to mention they have zero WR's, which is why MJD touches the ball nearly every play. Garrard was sacked 42 times last season, compared to just 21 the year he went 18/3 TD/INT ratio. Garrard is a very suitable option and better than DA.
KC- Cassel is a solid QB. He's very efficient and limits turnovers. He had a rough day against Oakland, but he still has 13 more games to prove himself in.
Washington- I agree. Campbell is a bum.
Denver- No change. Kyle Orton and Derek Anderson are the exact same QB. They are both tall with big arms, who struggle to complete short passes and take a lot of risks. They both complete around 54% of their passes, both average around 6 YPA, both have a quick release and throw a lot of INT's.
TB- See Denver. Leftwich is a big arm who can't complete short passes. Jury is out on Freeman.
St. Louis- Bulger used to be a solid option, and is now trash. I agree.
San Fran- What's wrong with Shaun Hill? Limits turnovers, good CP, great YPA. Can you blame him for a lack of TD's when his best WR is 36 years old and is washed up?
Seattle- Hasselbeck had a rough 7 games in 2008, but he's still a very good QB when healthy. Wallace has filled in nicely. Last season throwing 11 TD's to 3 INT's while providing a few yards here and there on the ground. Seattle's offense is like ours, only with no #1 receiver. They have a crappy line, crappy RB's, crappy WR's...
So that's 3 teams.
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I guess we just disagree.
Edwards in Buffalo is just not good at all IMO. I think if you put DA in there with T.O and evans and there running game with Jackson and now they get Lynch back would be very explosive opposed to below mediocre at best.
I won't even go on. I just think DA is better than you guys give credit.
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I guess we just disagree.
Edwards in Buffalo is just not good at all IMO. I think if you put DA in there with T.O and evans and there running game with Jackson and now they get Lynch back would be very explosive opposed to below mediocre at best.
I won't even go on. I just think DA is better than you guys give credit.
I guess we just disagree.
Edwards in Buffalo is just not good at all IMO. I think if you put DA in there with T.O and evans and there running game with Jackson and now they get Lynch back would be very explosive opposed to below mediocre at best.
I won't even go on. I just think DA is better than you guys give credit.
I can only go by what DA has shown. Good QB's learn not to make the same mistakes over, and over, and over again.
He's been throwing into triple coverage since I can remember watching him play as a freshman at Oregon State.
Good QB's make adjustments and get better. He's regressed.
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I for one am not "hating" on DA, I'm saying that he isn't a starter on a quality NFL team, so what is the point of playing him? Quinn has looked bad to date this year, but first, he's been in 3 tough games against undefeated teams, second, he looked good last year before injuring his finger, third, He's a #1 making a lot of money, and fourth, the team is going nowhere this year and so it's a year to evaluate people. All of this screams that the team should be playing Quinn and really ALL of the youngsters. I really fail to see the team's strategy here of playing journeyman-quality talent like DA. This team is going to lose at least 12 games no matter who it plays, so let's get the evaluation going...
IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.
Mia
Buf
Jax
K.C (Cassell is a bum)
Oak
Was
Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)
T.B
Stl
S.F
Sea
IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.
Mia
Buf
Jax
K.C (Cassell is a bum)
Oak
Was
Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)
T.B
Stl
S.F
Sea
Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)
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@inspecta said:
I just can't believe we are back to having this same ol' debate. Everybody here thought once the season began we would have our QB win lose or draw, now we're transported back to May 09 where everybody is throwing out stats from 08 and 07. The DA backers like an ex high school QB reliving the glory year where he was badass for about 8 games (and the giants game of 08) while ignoring all of his other shitty play.Those who backed Quinn acknowledge that he hasn't played well at all, but pulling him after 3 games is definitely a knee jerk reaction by Mangini, and most of us realize that he's making this move to keep his job (how effin' sick is that?)
Everybody here is hoping that Anderson has a good game. I hope that somehow magically he "gets it" now and goes out and torches the Bengals then runs the table and cements himself as our franchise QB of the future. That would be awesome, it really would. However, what you DA fags have to realize is that until that happens you cannot fault us for having little to no faith in this happening, we are basing this view on what he's done in the past, most recently this past sunday. 3 picks in one half of football? Yeah sign me up.
Anyone who hangs their disqust with DA on the three ints last week is avoiding reality. The Browns were 20 points down, the coaches changed their offense to 4 and 5 wideouts (how much have we seen that this fall?) and basically said... screw it, throw the ball...
Now if that's the kind of offense they're running under DA from here on, then you've got a point and legitimate worries... but otherwise get real.
Anyone who hangs their disqust with DA on the three ints last week is avoiding reality. The Browns were 20 points down, the coaches changed their offense to 4 and 5 wideouts (how much have we seen that this fall?) and basically said... screw it, throw the ball...
Now if that's the kind of offense they're running under DA from here on, then you've got a point and legitimate worries... but otherwise get real.
So when you are down 20, it's okay to throw in triple coverage? That is never acceptable, ever.
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4 pages of the same old shit
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@.mz said:
How does one start 5.5 games? It's like getting kind of pregnant.I meant that I'm not asking for him to get 30 starts, and that 5.5 games played isn't fair.
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IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.
Mia
Buf
Jax
K.C (Cassell is a bum)
Oak
Was
Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)
T.B
Stl
S.F
Sea
Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)
Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)
Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.
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Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)
Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.
Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.
And we have all witnessed DA couldn't get the job done either. So what exactly is the point?
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Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.
And we have all witnessed DA couldn't get the job done either. So what exactly is the point?
Masters said:
And we have all witnessed DA couldn't get the job done either. So what exactly is the point?LMAO...
We can argue this for another day or 10 or whatever.
No matter what anyone thinks DA has shown that he can get the job done. He has started 27 games.... How many did he win and compare that to when people get a chance to start. And he did all of that while on a shitty team with shitty coaching. Also what people seem to forget is that he is only what 26 years old? And the first chance he got to take over he went 10-5 and had 3,800 yards and 29 TD's one short of a team record, again all while under a shitty team with shitty coaching.
Has he had some bone headed plays and INT's???? Absolutely... He takes shots and some worked out very well and some havent. See Brett Favre
And again for the 19th time maybe he is not the answer. But he is definitely the answer right now. No doubt about it IMO.
It feels like we are playing tennis so now it is back in your court. And Im sure you will hit it back.
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I just don't see how anyone can honestly look at that career and tell me with a straight face he is going to be anything more than an journeyman pro. Even in his "great" 2007 season the only time he had more than 2 "good" weeks in a row was in the span where he played Miami, St. Lois, and Seattle and he was actually less than good in seattle.
I think in this big mess of things you lost the only point that anyone is trying to make.
DA IS A BETTER OPTION RIGHT NOW THEN ANYONE THAT WE HAVE. Nobody is saying that he is going to be a superstar or a hall of famer.
Please try to stick to the point.
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Quinn is the same age w/ less in game experience. So why even bring up DA's age?
DA in all those 27 games has shown zero growth.
Those stats are 2 years old. What DA did in 2007 against some of the worst teams in the league that year is not all that relavent in 2009. Showing you can do the job for about 12 games isn't exactly something I get excited over. Willie Green did that at RB. Where is he now?
There were more offensive options last year than this year, yet DA did just as little with them as Quinn is doing this year.
Quinn has been under the same shitty coaching as DA. So again, why even bring this up.
Favre showed growth over his first 27 starts. Favre is also the exception to the rule.
We can agree that neither QB might be the answer. But you can't sell me DA is suddenly going to change now, after not changing for 27 starts, especially after his showing in relief against BALT.
And if you believe DA was responsible for all 10 of those wins in 2007, that is revisionist history.
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@jadbf said:
Once again let's look at that 10 wins in 2007he played good in 6 of them. But I only see two wins against quality teams. He beat Baltimore and the NYJ while playing well. The other four teams he played well against were CINCINATI, MIAMI, ST. LOIS, and HOUSTON.
Then the TEAM had 4 wins against SEATLE, BALTIMORE, BUFFALO and SAN FRANCISCO where DA played average at best and below average in some.
PLease tell me where the QUALITY wins are there?
and then. Show me where he ever played more than two games in a row above average?
That is your point? Seriously?
So when you are SUPPOSED to play good against team that arent as good and he DOES fook it?????
So when the Lions beat the Redskins it doesnt really count???? You might be on to something..........
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I just don't see how anyone can honestly look at that career and tell me with a straight face he is going to be anything more than an journeyman pro. Even in his "great" 2007 season the only time he had more than 2 "good" weeks in a row was in the span where he played Miami, St. Lois, and Seattle and he was actually less than good in seattle.
I think in this big mess of things you lost the only point that anyone is trying to make.
DA IS A BETTER OPTION RIGHT NOW THEN ANYONE THAT WE HAVE. Nobody is saying that he is going to be a superstar or a hall of famer.
Please try to stick to the point.
DA IS A BETTER OPTION RIGHT NOW THEN ANYONE THAT WE HAVE. Nobody is saying that he is going to be a superstar or a hall of famer.
Please try to stick to the point.
That is an opinion. I don't think either QB is a better option than the other right now, when looking at the whole offense. It's trading one serious flaw for another. Both result in loses no matter how you slice it. That second half of the BALT game showed exactly that.
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@jadbf said:
Once again let's look at that 10 wins in 2007he played good in 6 of them. But I only see two wins against quality teams. He beat Baltimore and the NYJ while playing well. The other four teams he played well against were CINCINATI, MIAMI, ST. LOIS, and HOUSTON.
Then the TEAM had 4 wins against SEATLE, BALTIMORE, BUFFALO and SAN FRANCISCO where DA played average at best and below average in some.
PLease tell me where the QUALITY wins are there?
and then. Show me where he ever played more than two games in a row above average?
That is your point? Seriously?
So when you are SUPPOSED to play good against team that arent as good and he DOES fook it?????
So when the Lions beat the Redskins it doesnt really count???? You might be on to something..........
That is your point? Seriously?
So when you are SUPPOSED to play good against team that arent as good and he DOES fook it?????
So when the Lions beat the Redskins it doesnt really count???? You might be on to something..........
Boy, that's kind of like diminishing Quinn's game against DEN last season, now isn't it
His point is, those results aren't quite as impressive when you take them out of a vaccume.
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Quinn is the same age w/ less in game experience. So why even bring up DA's age?
DA in all those 27 games has shown zero growth.
Those stats are 2 years old. What DA did in 2007 against some of the worst teams in the league that year is not all that relavent in 2009. Showing you can do the job for about 12 games isn't exactly something I get excited over. Willie Green did that at RB. Where is he now?
There were more offensive options last year than this year, yet DA did just as little with them as Quinn is doing this year.
Quinn has been under the same shitty coaching as DA. So again, why even bring this up.
Favre showed growth over his first 27 starts. Favre is also the exception to the rule.
We can agree that neither QB might be the answer. But you can't sell me DA is suddenly going to change now, after not changing for 27 starts, especially after his showing in relief against BALT.
And if you believe DA was responsible for all 10 of those wins in 2007, that is revisionist history.
Masters said:
Quinn is the same age w/ less in game experience. So why even bring up DA's age?DA in all those 27 games has shown zero growth.
Those stats are 2 years old. What DA did in 2007 against some of the worst teams in the league that year is not all that relavent in 2009. Showing you can do the job for about 12 games isn't exactly something I get excited over. Willie Green did that at RB. Where is he now?
There were more offensive options last year than this year, yet DA did just as little with them as Quinn is doing this year.
Quinn has been under the same shitty coaching as DA. So again, why even bring this up.
Favre showed growth over his first 27 starts. Favre is also the exception to the rule.
We can agree that neither QB might be the answer. But you can't sell me DA is suddenly going to change now, after not changing for 27 starts, especially after his showing in relief against BALT.
And if you believe DA was responsible for all 10 of those wins in 2007, that is revisionist history.
You are mistaken my friend.
My only point in ALL of this is he is better than Quinn. Also you say that he has done NOTHING. That is false. He has had good games. And again yes he has had bad ones. But he is our best option that we have to win football games.
I am not a Quinn fan and Im not a DA fan. I am a fan of the Browns and winning football games. Whoever the best player is at each position I want them to play. This is not Madden where I can trade for P. Manning or Drew Brees. This is reality.
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Masters said:
Quinn is the same age w/ less in game experience. So why even bring up DA's age?DA in all those 27 games has shown zero growth.
Those stats are 2 years old. What DA did in 2007 against some of the worst teams in the league that year is not all that relavent in 2009. Showing you can do the job for about 12 games isn't exactly something I get excited over. Willie Green did that at RB. Where is he now?
There were more offensive options last year than this year, yet DA did just as little with them as Quinn is doing this year.
Quinn has been under the same shitty coaching as DA. So again, why even bring this up.
Favre showed growth over his first 27 starts. Favre is also the exception to the rule.
We can agree that neither QB might be the answer. But you can't sell me DA is suddenly going to change now, after not changing for 27 starts, especially after his showing in relief against BALT.
And if you believe DA was responsible for all 10 of those wins in 2007, that is revisionist history.
You are mistaken my friend.
My only point in ALL of this is he is better than Quinn. Also you say that he has done NOTHING. That is false. He has had good games. And again yes he has had bad ones. But he is our best option that we have to win football games.
I am not a Quinn fan and Im not a DA fan. I am a fan of the Browns and winning football games. Whoever the best player is at each position I want them to play. This is not Madden where I can trade for P. Manning or Drew Brees. This is reality.
You are mistaken my friend.
My only point in ALL of this is he is better than Quinn. Also you say that he has done NOTHING. That is false. He has had good games. And again yes he has had bad ones. But he is our best option that we have to win football games.
I am not a Quinn fan and Im not a DA fan. I am a fan of the Browns and winning football games. Whoever the best player is at each position I want them to play. This is not Madden where I can trade for P. Manning or Drew Brees. This is reality.
My point is no one can actaully say either QB is better. Not when you 27 starts compared to 6 NFL starts. In those 27 starts you have a completely different set of offensive weapons (which filled up a ass load of spectacular catches that no one can expect week in and week out) and the majority of the stats coming in a small amount of games against teams as bad or worse than the Browns.
I have never said DA has done nothing. Quit trying to read between the lines, because there is nothing there. And as JADBF said, I want better for the Browns than a few meaningless wins. On top of that, DA hasn't given CLE the best opportunity to win since 2007. So forgive me if I don't believe in trying to catch lighting in a bottle a second time around.
I am not a fan of either QB either.
This is freaking Holcomb all over again.
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I just don't see how anyone can honestly look at that career and tell me with a straight face he is going to be anything more than an journeyman pro. Even in his "great" 2007 season the only time he had more than 2 "good" weeks in a row was in the span where he played Miami, St. Lois, and Seattle and he was actually less than good in seattle.
I think in this big mess of things you lost the only point that anyone is trying to make.
DA IS A BETTER OPTION RIGHT NOW THEN ANYONE THAT WE HAVE. Nobody is saying that he is going to be a superstar or a hall of famer.
Please try to stick to the point.
I think in this big mess of things you lost the only point that anyone is trying to make.
DA IS A BETTER OPTION RIGHT NOW THEN ANYONE THAT WE HAVE. Nobody is saying that he is going to be a superstar or a hall of famer.
Please try to stick to the point.
Here is my problem with this statement - DA SHOULD be better than anyone we have as he has more experience. But if we continue to follow this line of reasoning, any QB we draft will never get any playing time; as a result, they'll never have a chance to BE better. That applies to everyone, naturally.
It doesn't work - players get better by playing (or they don't get better). DA hasn't gotten better as he has played (so far) - he's still the same guy he was coming into the league in 2005.
If we keep switching back to Anderson in a desparate attempt to win 'some games', we're never going to get better and this team will continue to achieve 4-12, 5-11, and 6-10.
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@jadbf said:
Then if you are sticking to that point, quit quoting his 2007 season like it's gospel and means he's any good.I have no problem with saying DA gives us a better chance to win now. However when you extrapolate that out to say " and he's young and can improve and could turn out great!", its then that I get the stat hammer out.
Its called a debate ever hear of it?
Thats what I started out with it.
And then you and Masters are playing tag team action and start saying he has done nothing. Ummm but he has done something in the National Football League. He threw for 3,800 29 td's and made the pro bowl...... Never said he could turn out great or even he can improve.... But twist it however you want. If you go back and look I said he probably is not the answer. But is the answer for this year and this year only. We can agree on that. But when you brake out your "stat hammer" and say things like he did this vs. this shitty team does not work with me.
Keep at it boys I have strong shoulders.
p.s I strongly suggest going back through all this garbage and then coming back to say something
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@jadbf said:
Then if you are sticking to that point, quit quoting his 2007 season like it's gospel and means he's any good.I have no problem with saying DA gives us a better chance to win now. However when you extrapolate that out to say " and he's young and can improve and could turn out great!", its then that I get the stat hammer out.
Its called a debate ever hear of it?
Thats what I started out with it.
And then you and Masters are playing tag team action and start saying he has done nothing. Ummm but he has done something in the National Football League. He threw for 3,800 29 td's and made the pro bowl...... Never said he could turn out great or even he can improve.... But twist it however you want. If you go back and look I said he probably is not the answer. But is the answer for this year and this year only. We can agree on that. But when you brake out your "stat hammer" and say things like he did this vs. this shitty team does not work with me.
Keep at it boys I have strong shoulders.
p.s I strongly suggest going back through all this garbage and then coming back to say something
Its called a debate ever hear of it?
Thats what I started out with it.
And then you and Masters are playing tag team action and start saying he has done nothing. Ummm but he has done something in the National Football League. He threw for 3,800 29 td's and made the pro bowl...... Never said he could turn out great or even he can improve.... But twist it however you want. If you go back and look I said he probably is not the answer. But is the answer for this year and this year only. We can agree on that. But when you brake out your "stat hammer" and say things like he did this vs. this shitty team does not work with me.
Keep at it boys I have strong shoulders.
p.s I strongly suggest going back through all this garbage and then coming back to say something
Quit making shit up then. Neither I, no JADBF have said DA has done nothing or even alluded to it.
You should take your one p.s. advise their.
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