Draft so you can win more games

TexasAg1969

@orion said:

...and here I am struggling mightily just to put my socks on. Wait 'til you get old you young whipper snapper!

Oh, I don't know. I'm older than you and I can still get either foot in my mouth with no trouble at all. Of course I have specialized in that all my life so.......................?

syd

@gumby73 said:

1 (12). Spencer Fano, OT, Utah (Sadiq,Lemon,Vega,Freeling)
1 (20). KC Concepcion, WR, Texas A&M (Omar Cooper, K. Proctor)
1 (24). Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, S, Toledo (Lomu,D.Boston,Blake Miller)
3 (70). Derrick Moore, edge, Michigan
4 (107). Markell Bell, OT, Miami
5 (146). Will Kacmarek, TE, Ohio State
5 (149). Jadon Canady, CB, Oregon
6 (206). David Gusta, DT, Kentucky
7 (248). Karson Sharar, LB, Iowa

all we get is pick # 20 to move back 6 spots and they get our #39th pick ? FUCK THAT, those fucks need to be squeezed hard , if they want 6 and 39 I want their 3rd and next years 1st along with #12 and #20

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

Me - Lomu has only given up a total of 2 sacks (both in 2024 as a red shirt freshman at LT) in his 2 year college football career with 0 sacks yielded in 2025 so I'm not worried an about-to-be top 5 pick overall - David Bailey at TT gave him his biggest challenge. That's about 25 or 26 starts facing David Bailey twice. The 1 area I'd like to see him improve at his initial contact force/strength - especially during the runs to his side. I'm confident good coaching can resolve a lot of this.

Me- Fano earned the Outland Trophy given to the best Lineman in college football so I think we need to dig a little further on what's making him successful (even though you found some areas that need polish)

Yes, context and a dive is needed on everything. Which you already know I do. I don't punish OT's for an edge win when it's a short-set on a 3 step. I always chart protections vs pressures to account. I don't say these things lightly without taking in a comprehensive assessment.

Best example I can give you. Carter Smith was PFF's top graded pass blocker in the 2025 regular season. I've told you that, because of the structure of the IU offense + how defenses set their fronts in response, it minimized the surface/attack on the edge and really helped to limit his exposure to more "pure" pass rush situations from 5-9techs.

This is still something PFF simply does not put enough weight to - pass pro grade vs rush alignment/technique.

Called my shot when the playoffs came around that, not only because of the talent increase, but because of their structure, he would struggle vs Miami. Result? Worst game of his season.

Bailey is the closest thing Lomu & Fano saw to NFL talent all year and they lost a good deal more than what they won. I'm seeing quite a bit of that here with the entire Utah line.

Credit I'll give to both Lomu & Fano - they pull REALLY well. Footwork needs cleaned up, but they're very fluid and make quality decisions against various fronts.

I think you're very good at what you do which is why you get paid to do it. I'll even say I don't think you're wrong about what either guy (Fano or Lomu) has to work on. That said, there's a very good chance both guys are going in the 1st round when 1 is only a red shirt sophomore and the other is just a junior. Neither one gave up a sack all year after combining for 2 sacks only in 2024.

That was indeed a good call by you regarding Miami vs Texas Tech. Miami LT Markell Bell played a lot of his best football near the end of the season and in the CFP in particular. It makes a lot of sense David Bailey is the closest thing Fano & Lomu saw to the NFL given he had 14.5 sacks with 19.5 tackles for loss, 13 quarterback hits and 3 forced fumbles last year. In a 15-16 game season - I'm guessing a lot of guys have a disappointing game or 2 to the standard they set and the expectations they have. If they are who they think they are from the passion and work they're committing - they'll bounce back...

tiamat63

@flugel said:

I think you're very good at what you do which is why you get paid to do it. I'll even say I don't think you're wrong about what either guy (Fano or Lomu) has to work on. That said, there's a very good chance both guys are going in the 1st round when 1 is only a red shirt sophomore and the other is just a junior. Neither one gave up a sack all year after combining for 2 sacks only in 2024.

That was indeed a good call by you regarding Miami vs Texas Tech. Miami LT Markell Bell played a lot of his best football near the end of the season and in the CFP in particular. It makes a lot of sense David Bailey is the closest thing Fano & Lomu saw to the NFL given he had 14.5 sacks with 19.5 tackles for loss, 13 quarterback hits and 3 forced fumbles last year. In a 15-16 game season - I'm guessing a lot of guys have a disappointing game or 2 to the standard they set and the expectations they have. If they are who they think they are from the passion and work they're committing - they'll bounce back...

I appreciate that.

You're right, chances are both OT's are going in the 1st round. But beyond the Bailey game there is too much for me to ignore. The structure of Utah's offense, on top of some favorable positional matchups on the schedule, have made this pair look better than they are. IMHO. This is the chicken or egg part - Was the Utah offense designed around their weaknesses? Or was the lack of technical development a result OF the Utah offensive design? I tend to lead towards the latter, with the former something the offensive structure naturally could help minimize if not outright mask.

I'm aware of the hill I might die on here, believe me. I'm going against professional consensus. But I've also been wrong when agreeing with professional consensus ( Josh Rosen ) Now, I wasn't wrong that he would be a 1st round pick. Only the limits of his abilities. But my "win" rate on draft evals when going against the grain of media professionals has seen me profitable. I'm doubling down on my eye for talent here.

Lomu is a great athlete and may have a fine career. Unless there's a minor miracle of off-season improvement from now until September, he's going to struggle early. He may end up settling into a fine career after because he is the superior athlete. Fano will struggle early and often. Even with significant technical improvement, I see his ceiling as been an average, maybe slightly-above-average OT. Not worth a top 25 and certainly not #6.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

I appreciate that.

You're right, chances are both OT's are going in the 1st round. But beyond the Bailey game there is too much for me to ignore. The structure of Utah's offense, on top of some favorable positional matchups on the schedule, have made this pair look better than they are. IMHO. This is the chicken or egg part - Was the Utah offense designed around their weaknesses? Or was the lack of technical development a result OF the Utah offensive design? I tend to lead towards the latter, with the former something the offensive structure naturally could help minimize if not outright mask.

I'm aware of the hill I might die on here, believe me. I'm going against professional consensus. But I've also been wrong when agreeing with professional consensus ( Josh Rosen ) Now, I wasn't wrong that he would be a 1st round pick. Only the limits of his abilities. But my "win" rate on draft evals when going against the grain of media professionals has seen me profitable. I'm doubling down on my eye for talent here.

Lomu is a great athlete and may have a fine career. Unless there's a minor miracle of off-season improvement from now until September, he's going to struggle early. He may end up settling into a fine career after because he is the superior athlete. Fano will struggle early and often. Even with significant technical improvement, I see his ceiling as been an average, maybe slightly-above-average OT. Not worth a top 25 and certainly not #6.

Well said! As much as I made Lomu my fave - I agree with your points above. He probably should have gone back for at least 1 of his 2 years of eligibility remaining; but I'm sure many agents out there are well versed about how thin this draft is at LT so here he is. I think I've mentioned in a few of my posts in the last month or so that he'll probably experience some early growing pains. The good news is if Dawand Jones shows up fit and ready - we wouldn't have to rush Lomu out there while the Browns are trying to extinguish Sanders from standing in the pocket patting the football.

As for your pre-draft thoughts on Josh Rosen - don't feel bad because I got the other Josh wrong (Allen). REALLY wrong. If he wasn't in the AFC - I'd say get that guy some WRs.

tiamat63

@flugel said:

The good news is if Dawand Jones shows up fit and ready - we wouldn't have to rush Lomu out there while the Browns are trying to extinguish Sanders from standing in the pocket patting the football.

Can't guarantee that Dawand is healthy & ready to go. But in the modern era, if Lomu is the pick @ #6, I would struggle to see anyway he's not out there day 1. The investment is too great and the media would be far too loud.

I'll have more on Fano in a day or two. I'm actually working on a video for him.

@flugel said:

As for your pre-draft thoughts on Josh Rosen - don't feel bad because I got the other Josh wrong (Allen). REALLY wrong. If he wasn't in the AFC - I'd say get that guy some WRs.

The advent of more access to all-22 the last 7-8 years has really helped me to refine my process. It's eye opening the difference it makes in terms of what you see that the QB's see.

SdBacker80

I remember tuning into a Wyoming vs Iowa game and Josh Allen throwing back shoulder slants and airmailing passes left and right and I left with the impression if this is one of the first true CFB defenses this guy has seen (aside from SDSU) the Mountain West wasn't known for it this was a bad impression and his completion percentage was awful but the excuse was he didn’t have a supporting cast. I certainly didn’t want him but felt luck warm about Baker didn’t like Happy feet Darnold…but got Eli Manning vibes from Josh Rosen. Wildly off of course.

QB is tough evaluation. I liked Russell Wilson coming out of Wisconsin but I can’t say I’ve been right often.

On another topic…lots of chatter maybe misinformation but definitely smoke about the top half of this draft class being void of the usual “difference makers”

tiamat63

Trust & believe when I say, reps like the one below showed up in every game Utah played. Especially when they needed to drive the ball downfield without playaction or QB sprint out.

Fano did fine against interior rushers. But when he faced length & quickness at the 5-9tech, he struggled more often than not.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

Can't guarantee that Dawand is healthy & ready to go. But in the modern era, if Lomu is the pick @ #6, I would struggle to see anyway he's not out there day 1. The investment is too great and the media would be far too loud.

I'll have more on Fano in a day or two. I'm actually working on a video for him.

The advent of more access to all-22 the last 7-8 years has really helped me to refine my process. It's eye opening the difference it makes in terms of what you see that the QB's see.

Thanks! Your passion has taken you leaps and bounds from where you were when we first crossed paths (which wasn't bad at all). I could tell you had a football background and now that you utilize the all-22 - it's great to see where you're going with it all.

I'm not seeing Lomu projected at #6 overall any more; but a few of those that share their Mock Drafts on TV are still listing him at #24. That at best, coupled with not many big battle-tests outside of Texas Tech (that he clearly didn't ace) - leads me to believe the 21 year old would-be rs junior would still begin the season watching Dawand Jones (who said in an interview with Nathan Zegura) that aside from his strength & conditioning - he's also playing basketball. When asked if that was a good idea he said something along the line of he knows how to stay out of harm's way on the court. I've often wondered if the Browns had the right Sports Med staff in place and this didn't help alleviate that thinking.

A couple weeks after the draft, I'd like to watch whoever we draft at LT on the discord with you.

SdBacker80

I’ll say this about Fano. He’s a nasty finisher. Effort 110%. Everything that Jed Wills wasn’t.

Can he overcome the physical limitations and get coached up with a good mentor like Joe Thomas and good offensive line coach?

tiamat63

@flugel said:

Thanks! Your passion has taken you leaps and bounds from where you were when we first crossed paths (which wasn't bad at all). I could tell you had a football background and now that you utilize the all-22 - it's great to see where you're going with it all.

I'm not seeing Lomu projected at #6 overall any more; but a few of those that share their Mock Drafts on TV are still listing him at #24. That at best, coupled with not many big battle-tests outside of Texas Tech (that he clearly didn't ace) - leads me to believe the 21 year old would-be rs junior would still begin the season watching Dawand Jones (who said in an interview with Nathan Zegura)

The reason I say Lomu may be taken that high is simply because the raw materials for a quality OT are there. He needs a lot of work, but he doesn't have the physical limitations Fano has.

@flugel said:

A couple weeks after the draft, I'd like to watch whoever we draft at LT on the discord with you.

I'll be recording and diagraming snaps tonight to release a video before tomorrow on Fano. You, and anyone else, are always more than welcomed to join in and watch what I've found.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

The reason I say Lomu may be taken that high is simply because the raw materials for a quality OT are there. He needs a lot of work, but he doesn't have the physical limitations Fano has.

I'll be recording and diagraming snaps tonight to release a video before tomorrow on Fano. You, and anyone else, are always more than welcomed to join in and watch what I've found.

That would be great! Thanks!

tiamat63

@flugel said:

That would be great! Thanks!

Looking around 7:30pm EST. I have the timestamps of snaps I found between 3-4 games where the Utah offense and, by extension, Fano, were taken out of their comfort zone. While I'm cutting those up, I'll share with you guys what I found before I insert them into clips and give the analysis.

Again, all are welcomed.

https://discord.gg/T9ffPZk93

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

Looking around 7:30pm EST. I have the timestamps of snaps I found between 3-4 games where the Utah offense and, by extension, Fano, were taken out of their comfort zone. While I'm cutting those up, I'll share with you guys what I found before I insert them into clips and give the analysis.

Again, all are welcomed.

https://discord.gg/T9ffPZk93

??

Orion

So the draft has just ended. And what did the Browns do. Well, they drafted so that they could win more games.

(keep in mind, we already had the #2 defense in the league)

We needed a LT. None of those really good defensive players were going to be able to protect our QB's blind side. So we took a LT with our 1st selection of the draft.

We had the worst WR room in the league. So with the next 2 selections we took 2 WR's. Both bringing somewhat different styles and sizes. We really needed a big WR that could catch balls at the back of the end zone (Denzel Boston). Concepcion is a shade under 6'...so he's not a smurf...but he is quick and supposedly able to get some immediate separation. I'd like to see him be our Wes Welker / Julian Eddleman.

From there they saw that a Safety that they liked had slipped a little more than they thought so they moved up to snag him. (it's handy to have some fire-power so you can pivot like that)

Lastly, in round 3 they went back for another OLineman that they liked. They vowed to fix the OL this offseason and WR positions and they certainly kept their word. (although I'm not sure that the Center that they selected is a fix)

After that we're into day 3 selections which are more of a crap-shoot.

Now are any of our early drafted players going to prove to be the fixes that we hoped? We can't know for sure. We know that there are those that didn't want Fano....and those that didn't want Concepcion of which I was one...but not because I didn't think he was any good, but because I wanted Denzel Boston more. Others would be happier with a Cooper - Boston duo.

We'll see how this draft turns out over the upcoming season. But one thing is for sure, the team was not going to be able to win more games without considerable effort put into the OL & WR groups. And that's where the team's most valuable draft assets were spent. Because the goal is to win games and not to pad statistics.

In hindsight, Caleb Downs is a great person. He would've been a great addition to the D and to the community. But heck, I don't live anywhere near that community.

Next year we may need a GOOD QB in order to win more games. But we've certainly given the QB the weapons and protection required (we hope) to eliminate those excuses when evaluating our QB play going forward.

SUPER BOWL !!!!

Flugel

@orion said:

So the draft has just ended. And what did the Browns do. Well, they drafted so that they could win more games.

(keep in mind, we already had the #2 defense in the league)

We needed a LT. None of those really good defensive players were going to be able to protect our QB's blind side. So we took a LT with our 1st selection of the draft.

We had the worst WR room in the league. So with the next 2 selections we took 2 WR's. Both bringing somewhat different styles and sizes. We really needed a big WR that could catch balls at the back of the end zone (Denzel Boston). Concepcion is a shade under 6'...so he's not a smurf...but he is quick and supposedly able to get some immediate separation. I'd like to see him be our Wes Welker / Julian Eddleman.

From there they saw that a Safety that they liked had slipped a little more than they thought so they moved up to snag him. (it's handy to have some fire-power so you can pivot like that)

Lastly, in round 3 they went back for another OLineman that they liked. They vowed to fix the OL this offseason and WR positions and they certainly kept their word. (although I'm not sure that the Center that they selected is a fix)

After that we're into day 3 selections which are more of a crap-shoot.

Now are any of our early drafted players going to prove to be the fixes that we hoped? We can't know for sure. We know that there are those that didn't want Fano....and those that didn't want Concepcion of which I was one...but not because I didn't think he was any good, but because I wanted Denzel Boston more. Others would be happier with a Cooper - Boston duo.

We'll see how this draft turns out over the upcoming season. But one thing is for sure, the team was not going to be able to win more games without considerable effort put into the OL & WR groups. And that's where the team's most valuable draft assets were spent. Because the goal is to win games and not to pad statistics.

In hindsight, Caleb Downs is a great person. He would've been a great addition to the D and to the community. But heck, I don't live anywhere near that community.

Next year we may need a GOOD QB in order to win more games. But we've certainly given the QB the weapons and protection required (we hope) to eliminate those excuses when evaluating our QB play going forward.

SUPER BOWL !!!!

Good point; but that should always be the reason any team drafts beyond the one coming off a SB Championship! It was NICE to see the Browns getting who they wanted without any interference from Depodesta. End result? Our fans are pumped and the Browns are pumped! Significant efforts have been made to strengthen BOTH Tackle spots; while it looks like Dawand Jones has made the best effort of his career to show up in shape. None of this sucks. Deeper competition at both Tackle spots should bring out the best in everyone. Can't wait!

Flugel

@orion said:

So the draft has just ended. And what did the Browns do. Well, they drafted so that they could win more games.

(keep in mind, we already had the #2 defense in the league)

We needed a LT. None of those really good defensive players were going to be able to protect our QB's blind side. So we took a LT with our 1st selection of the draft.

We had the worst WR room in the league. So with the next 2 selections we took 2 WR's. Both bringing somewhat different styles and sizes. We really needed a big WR that could catch balls at the back of the end zone (Denzel Boston). Concepcion is a shade under 6'...so he's not a smurf...but he is quick and supposedly able to get some immediate separation. I'd like to see him be our Wes Welker / Julian Eddleman.

From there they saw that a Safety that they liked had slipped a little more than they thought so they moved up to snag him. (it's handy to have some fire-power so you can pivot like that)

Lastly, in round 3 they went back for another OLineman that they liked. They vowed to fix the OL this offseason and WR positions and they certainly kept their word. (although I'm not sure that the Center that they selected is a fix)

After that we're into day 3 selections which are more of a crap-shoot.

Now are any of our early drafted players going to prove to be the fixes that we hoped? We can't know for sure. We know that there are those that didn't want Fano....and those that didn't want Concepcion of which I was one...but not because I didn't think he was any good, but because I wanted Denzel Boston more. Others would be happier with a Cooper - Boston duo.

We'll see how this draft turns out over the upcoming season. But one thing is for sure, the team was not going to be able to win more games without considerable effort put into the OL & WR groups. And that's where the team's most valuable draft assets were spent. Because the goal is to win games and not to pad statistics.

In hindsight, Caleb Downs is a great person. He would've been a great addition to the D and to the community. But heck, I don't live anywhere near that community.

Next year we may need a GOOD QB in order to win more games. But we've certainly given the QB the weapons and protection required (we hope) to eliminate those excuses when evaluating our QB play going forward.

SUPER BOWL !!!!

I'm out of cyber fanny pats today; but the good news is you don't need the heebeegeebees of me touching your ass ruining your morning. I forgot to mention - I'm really pumped about this draft strengthening the WR and the TE positions. If we're younger at OT, we needed to add some TEs to their outside shoulders that can also block - and I think we did that yesterday.

Dutch Oven

@flugel said:

I'm out of cyber fanny pats today; but the good news is you don't need the heebeegeebees of me touching your ass ruining your morning. I forgot to mention - I'm really pumped about this draft strengthening the WR and the TE positions. If we're younger at OT, we needed to add some TEs to their outside shoulders that can also block - and I think we did that yesterday.

I'm still blown away that Kacmarek was taken in the 3rd round, pretty astounding for a TE that doesn't offer much in the receiving part of the game. You know I wanted him bad, but I figured he would have gone around where we got Royer or the other guy. Good for him.

Flugel

@dutch-oven said:

I'm still blown away that Kacmarek was taken in the 3rd round, pretty astounding for a TE that doesn't offer much in the receiving part of the game. You know I wanted him bad, but I figured he would have gone around where we got Royer or the other guy. Good for him.

Yeah, that was a GREAT idea you had with him Dutch. He probably does offer good hands. My guess is the other options to throw to at Ohio State were Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, Bo Jackson and Max Klare giving him far less opportunity to show off his hands.

Dutch Oven

@flugel said:

Yeah, that was a GREAT idea you had with him Dutch. He probably does offer good hands. My guess is the other options to throw to at Ohio State were Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, Bo Jackson and Max Klare giving him far less opportunity to show off his hands.

There are a ton of mouths to feed down in Columbus.

My only problem I had with the draft is I felt Berry wasn't aggressive enough getting better OLinemen after Fano... I felt there were better guys than Barber and Brailsford on Day 3 they should have targeted, but who knows, maybe they really like Barber for example more than most. Brailsford reminds me a little too much of Nick Harris, who was too small to ever be a legit starting candidate at center.

Draft so you can win more games

6. Dallas Cowboys (from CLE*): Sonny Styles, LB, Ohio State

Cleveland Browns