Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust?
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Masters said:
Please tell me you didn't just say that, yet will pump up DA?Dude, DA has the same flaws since his sophmore year in college. The same flaws since he started his first game in 2006.
I won't even touch the Lerner conspiracy garbage. Because if there is any truth to that, this team is just as screwed and Managini is an automatic failure, because any coach that goes along w/ that crap has no business being and NFL coach. You don't succeed by sabotaging yourself.
You don't have to buy into the conspiracy theory it's just a theory. But Lerner needs to make his money before anything else and he did when that surprising announcement was made. What is Mangini supposed to do tell his boss he won't do it? Why do you think the leash was so short? I mean, they gave DA 8 games last year and we were terrible. If they really believed in Quinn (and I see nothing about him that I like) why would he get pulled that fast? Because the second coaching staff to have him is Retarded too?
And I will pump up DA because the kid has EVERYTHING an NFL QB needs to play in this league. His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him. He already improved on one glaring flaw, the play-action. Also, he made good decisions last week. Once that's done, you have a QB the teammates respect and a guy who can make every play on the field. Brady's flaws are all in his natural ability which he just doesn't have. If right now he were in High School or a freshman in college he would be awesome. But at this point in your career you really need to have developed some poise and some vision to make up for that slow release and lack of zip on your throws and he hasn't. On top of just plain ability, he doesn't seem to be mentally strong enough to play at this level. I may be wrong but I don't have another 3 years of waiting for him to eventually become a solid backup. With the two guys we have to choose from DA is easily the best guy at this point for the team. No doubt. And so it's time to sit back and watch the future unfold because I believe this coach and this QB will be here for a while. And I'm pretty happy about it. I mean, I lost in fantasy this week by 4 points for the second week in a row (thanks Jennings) and I'm still in a good mood!
His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
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At the end of the day Brady couldnt get it done. He held a clipboard for 2 years and should be more than ready. What first round QB gets 2 years to sit and watch the game and arent ready? If there is one then he is a bust.
He got his shot and he failed. If the kid had a future I think that he would be in there. But he doesnt and is the 2nd maybe 3rd best QB on our team. We are probably just looking for a team to trade him to before he hurts his trade value anymore.
And as far as giving up 2 first round picks... That is false. We GOT the 22 pick from Dallas that year for a 2nd round that year and our 1st the following year. Which happened to be #22. So the 2 first round picks are a wash. Basically we gave up a high 2nd round pick for Brady. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Thanks Lums for that insight, I did not know those things about Derek Anderson.
Good having you around, or we'd only be watching dink-n-dunk on Sundays and Gay bashing Mon-Sat.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Lums quit making so much sense. Its not aloud around here.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.
Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
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And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.
Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
Masters said:
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
like I was saying I think Anderson's bad rep came from his junior year and everybody wrote him off before he caught on to Riley's offense and had a pretty damn good senior year. Issues like "finding the right receiver" were much improved with a year in the system. Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
It's interesting that it says he "is best in short to intermediate areas" when that's something BQ Nation has been trying to rip him for.
In my opinion the main thing Anderson needs to continue to work on is footwork and to not pull the trigger when he's not set. Anderson is not good at throwing when he's not square. He is not good throwing off his back foot. However when he steps up and throws from a square stance the ball is as accurate as anybody for any length of throw.
The only times I say "oh shit" when watching Anderson play are when he lets it go off his back foot. That almost always means trouble. He can't go Ben Rotburger and jack one up in the air and cross his fingers that Hines Ward will come out of nowhere to snag it. As long as he's not doing that the offense will move.
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Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Karlis Missed -
@inspecta said:
Because dude, then he'd have nothing to instigate the board with.Everybody is on board with DA starting the rest of the season, this is bad news for stan and lums. Because without our opposition they have nothing to post about, so they are now in the business of creating opposition that does not exist...
C'mon Lums ... let's go take on ChiefOrangeBlood ...
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Masters said:
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
like I was saying I think Anderson's bad rep came from his junior year and everybody wrote him off before he caught on to Riley's offense and had a pretty damn good senior year. Issues like "finding the right receiver" were much improved with a year in the system. Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
It's interesting that it says he "is best in short to intermediate areas" when that's something BQ Nation has been trying to rip him for.
In my opinion the main thing Anderson needs to continue to work on is footwork and to not pull the trigger when he's not set. Anderson is not good at throwing when he's not square. He is not good throwing off his back foot. However when he steps up and throws from a square stance the ball is as accurate as anybody for any length of throw.
The only times I say "oh shit" when watching Anderson play are when he lets it go off his back foot. That almost always means trouble. He can't go Ben Rotburger and jack one up in the air and cross his fingers that Hines Ward will come out of nowhere to snag it. As long as he's not doing that the offense will move.
Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
That and someone actually thought highly of Flacco's ability to get better. To date they were correct on both guys ability to develope.
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we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Thanks Lums for that insight, I did not know those things about Derek Anderson.
Good having you around, or we'd only be watching dink-n-dunk on Sundays and Gay bashing Mon-Sat.
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@jadbf said:
RIIIGHT because Lum's opinions affected the decision Mangini madecome on STAN.
Quit being such a queer trying to prop Lums up even when his QB is the one that's turned out to be the better choice.
Why can't it be enough that a number of people have now at least realized that DA is the QB that needs to start for this season?
Why can't it be enough that other parts of this team are starting to show progression?
Oh quit crying .... This place changes like the wind and I'm just making light of it, if the shoe fits it ain't on me. Take a snap shot back four weeks ago and there were some proud BQ Nation mo-foe's around here, and just as giddy about Cribbs at WR. Three weeks back, Lums was a puppet and so wrong it was laughable. Drop in two weeks back and the ultimatum was presented, "Lums must go because he is so wrong and not one of us". One week ago, Brady Nation was on the edge of their seats waiting for DA to fail. Today, everyone knows that DA ain't the longterm answer, sigh at Lums, blame the site owner ....
Next week? DA Jerseys sell like hot cakes at www.TheBrownsStore.com
What size do you need?
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
This implies that a player peaks in college and is ready day 1 in the NFL in the most difficult position in sports. Any QB needs a 3 year minimum to develope and since this would be technically his 3rd year; it's make or break for him. Plus, he has never been treated as the starter or "the guy" by any coaching staff. Two very important factors.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
Nobody is going to give up a first and third for a guy they need to develope. They can draft there own guy two years younger and do that in there system. And there was talk about trading to Dallas but Dallas wanted to trade with Baltimore so it never happened.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
I think we're all gonna be pretty pleased with what we see from here on out. In 2007 DA was Jaworski's favorite young QB to watch on tape. 2008, everyone took a shit and DA, among others on the team, took a hit for it. I think it's his time. It's sink or swim time for DA and I think he's got it this time.
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I have no doubt in believing that Quinn could be a bust.
I just dont believe we know if he is or isnt yet. Drew Brees and Eli Manning werent busts, but everyone thought they were after 6 NFL games.
I dont think you play a first round draft pick for 6 games then bench him.... sorry, doesnt work like that. Gotta give him 2-3 seasons starting to see his progress and develpment
I dont think you play a first round draft pick for 6 games then bench him.... sorry, doesnt work like that. Gotta give him 2-3 seasons starting to see his progress and develpment
this line of thinking absolutely puts one player ahead of the entire team...especially when you have a viable option on the roster. there are also vets available via free agency that would give the Browns a better chance to win than BQ does.you are obviously IN LOVE with the idea of BQ QB'ing the Browns. the mindset is for BQ to helm them at all costs, no matter the timeline, until he "gets" it. no one should EVER have that luxury, especially when their tools and skill-set are obviously inadequate for the NFL.
it's over PGL...you might as well get critical and start seeing what the rest of us have accepted.
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@inspecta said:
Because dude, then he'd have nothing to instigate the board with.Everybody is on board with DA starting the rest of the season, this is bad news for stan and lums. Because without our opposition they have nothing to post about, so they are now in the business of creating opposition that does not exist...
I'm only on board with it because it's beyond our control. I find it hard to beleive he's a true bust, just an awful place to be for all involved.
After all isn't everyone on board that a 6-10 record is ok?
I didn't think so.
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Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Man, we use to debate this endlessly in the Couch years. I believe the consensus was that you can find a retread QB that can be very productive for you through free agency, but teams just don't give up and kick a great RB to the curb (unless otherwise a head case), you will have to draft one and usually high.
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I don't think you can declare a guy a "bust" after 5 games. But it is Mangini's job to determine whether Quinn's potential star shines bright enough to invest two years worth of starts -- and potentially Retard team evaluation and growth -- in order to be able to gauge that. He's had an extended look at the kid to make that determination. If Mangini's arrived at the answer and it is "no", it would be plain silly to sacrifice two years of starts on the kid on the "we gotta find out" theory.
Again, look at Opie's history with QB decisions -- Redman, Boller, Josh Harris, DA, Dilfer, Frye, Dorsey, Quinn. And think about the two QBs he was even hotter for in the Boller and Quinn years -- Leftwich and Russell. Keeping the question mark of Quinn out of the equation, anybody think we wouldn't have been better off staying pat with Garcia and McCown and saving picks on our trades for Dilfer and Dorsey and drafting Frye? So who gives credence to the fact that Opie saw something in Quinn that the 20 teams who didn't have to have the kid with their pick?
Quinn needs a WCO-type system if he is to thrive in the NFL IMO. Mangini/Daboll eventually want to pound the ball and use their QB to stretch the field, take some shots and convert the occasional third down. If they're not sold that Quinn can be "the guy" and not just a guy, Anderson is the better stand in until they get "that guy". Now add the fact that Quinn's extended audition would potentially cost the team $11 million worth of currently gradable talent on a team facing a talent void.
Mangini's staking his career on the fact that Quinn will not be a star in his system and that it's not worth building a system around his talents. He has a better sample than we do and a better understanding of what he wants from his offense. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over, oh, say Bruce Drennan or Tony Rizzo.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
This implies that a player peaks in college and is ready day 1 in the NFL in the most difficult position in sports. Any QB needs a 3 year minimum to develope and since this would be technically his 3rd year; it's make or break for him. Plus, he has never been treated as the starter or "the guy" by any coaching staff. Two very important factors.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
Nobody is going to give up a first and third for a guy they need to develope. They can draft there own guy two years younger and do that in there system. And there was talk about trading to Dallas but Dallas wanted to trade with Baltimore so it never happened.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
I think we're all gonna be pretty pleased with what we see from here on out. In 2007 DA was Jaworski's favorite young QB to watch on tape. 2008, everyone took a shit and DA, among others on the team, took a hit for it. I think it's his time. It's sink or swim time for DA and I think he's got it this time.
This implies that a player peaks in college and is ready day 1 in the NFL in the most difficult position in sports. Any QB needs a 3 year minimum to develope and since this would be technically his 3rd year; it's make or break for him. Plus, he has never been treated as the starter or "the guy" by any coaching staff. Two very important factors.
It doesn't imply that at all unless you try to force a round peg into a square hole. I am implying a player will show some progress over that time. DA has not. DA has been in the NFL since 2005. This is his 5th year. He's never been treated as the starter or "the guy: by any staff? What was last year w/ him named the starter before the NFL draft even occured? Two false factors.
Are you really going to on one hand say the guy needs 3 years minimum to develope, then say elsewhere that a QB like Quinn is a bust and will never get better
Nobody is going to give up a first and third for a guy they need to develope. They can draft there own guy two years younger and do that in there system. And there was talk about trading to Dallas but Dallas wanted to trade with Baltimore so it never happened.
But look at his 2007 season? Isn't that what is said as to why people believe he is legit? If he was legit, what you just said would not apply to him.
I think we're all gonna be pretty pleased with what we see from here on out. In 2007 DA was Jaworski's favorite young QB to watch on tape. 2008, everyone took a shit and DA, among others on the team, took a hit for it. I think it's his time. It's sink or swim time for DA and I think he's got it this time.
And he was on Jaws disappointment list in2008. Guess who was on Jaws list of favorite young QBs in 2008 and he thought was the future of the Browns? The other guy. So what exactly does your comment really tell us?
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