Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust?
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the problem is. what we did to get BQ. imagine for the next draft, just giving up the first 2 picks for nothing. without giving him a shot, that is essentially what we are doing. the same as buying a car, and taking it to a junkyard without driving it.
its not like we have a winner in DA. we're gonna have a losing season, we might aswell have one with a person that has the possibility of improving, as opposed to DA, who will never improve.
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Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust? Plenty of guys he was drafted near are all ready pretty much busty.
There were only seven players picked between BQ and Craig "Buster" Davis, who the Chargers have seemingly given up on. Robert Meachem (five picks after Quinn) isn't exactly seeing 1st-team snaps/balls in NO. Alan Branch (11 after BQ) isn't in the Cards' plans as far as I know. John Beck and Drew Stanton, taken 18 and 21 picks after BQ respectively, aren't in ANYONE'S future plans.
Late first round QB draft picks have a piss poor track record (save for Aaron Rodgers). BQ, Losman, Grossman...all busts, all recent late first-round picks. Also, he was picked like 10 picks before the second round. And the second round is where quarterbacks are drafted to die. The list of round 2 busts is so long Stan would need additional server space to house said list.
Draft picks bust, especially QBs in that region of the draft. Shit happens. I'm ready to move on.
You may ask why some guys (the shitty JaMarcus Russell) get a longer leash? because the difference between 1 and 22 might as well be a thousand.
<Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust? Plenty of guys he was drafted near are all ready pretty much busty.>
Here's is why. It took Ol Goolie quite a few years to figure this one out, but I think I finally got it. A fan is by definition usually devoid of logic when it comes to his own team. This isn't an insult, it is the truth. For the same reason liberals can't face Obama being a failure, Browns fans can't face Quinn going down the tubes.
Many fans spend the entire off season dreaming of touchdowns, Steeler ass-kickings and a return to glory. It isn't a blind love for Quinn man, it is a blind love for the Browns. If Quinn busts it has nasty repricussions for teh fan; it means more ridicule and crap results.
Where I differ from a lot of you is that for a variety of reasons I am more than willing to air out with you, right or wrong, my emotional connection to the Browns died when Cleveland boo'd Bill Belichik and Vinny T on Monday night against the bills one beautiful, upper-deck october night.
I admit that I originally thought Lerner would be great. This was one of the few things I missed on. I turned against him in 2002 and his son is a turd off of the same butt squeeze. But I digress; without the emotional component I come at things form a different angle. Is it better? Shit, who cares? Our team blows.
I will say one thing to all of you, and if you believe otherwise then honestly you really don't know how the world works. Cleveland fans love the fantasy concept of an owner who sits back and puts the control of the team into the hands of the football men.
Do you honestly think that Billionaires get to be billionaires but just turning their companies over to any Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along? Do you really think the billionaires are nonchalant?
Emotional fans hate guys like Modell and Jerry Jones for mettling. I would rather have either of those guys than the turd we have. At least Modell loved football and more importantly, Browns football. At least his dumb ass moments came because his emotions clouded his better judgement.
Emotion? Ah yea, as I said, a fan is emotional and logic doesn't always apply.
In 1995 I was blasted for asking Baltimore to keep the Browns name while forcing Cleveland's team to adopt a new name?
Why? Because WITHOUT the emotional tie to the past Lerner would have faced fans who, after a couple years watching the Cleveland Limestone-heads go 3 - 13 would have boo'd Lerner out of town. Instead? After 10 years of the worst football imaginable, emotional fans are actually hopeful that this latest loss has some building points.
I ain't gonna insult anyone. I used to be one of those fans and I wish I knew how to go back to those times. I really do.
What has happened to the Browns is sad. What is inexcusable is that there really is no fix in sight.
Tom V. (Get it while it lasts)
There were only seven players picked between BQ and Craig "Buster" Davis, who the Chargers have seemingly given up on. Robert Meachem (five picks after Quinn) isn't exactly seeing 1st-team snaps/balls in NO. Alan Branch (11 after BQ) isn't in the Cards' plans as far as I know. John Beck and Drew Stanton, taken 18 and 21 picks after BQ respectively, aren't in ANYONE'S future plans.
Late first round QB draft picks have a piss poor track record (save for Aaron Rodgers). BQ, Losman, Grossman...all busts, all recent late first-round picks. Also, he was picked like 10 picks before the second round. And the second round is where quarterbacks are drafted to die. The list of round 2 busts is so long Stan would need additional server space to house said list.
Draft picks bust, especially QBs in that region of the draft. Shit happens. I'm ready to move on.
You may ask why some guys (the shitty JaMarcus Russell) get a longer leash? because the difference between 1 and 22 might as well be a thousand.
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No, he is not, Tim Couch and Ryan leaf both started 2 full seasons, Quinn never even got that chance
He got the chance...and showed so little it ended.
How many chances would I get....20 starts or say maybe 2 tryout camp snaps??
Everything we heard about Quinn was how he was polished, NFL ready, and he had the "it" factor.
BS
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Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
Actually I think it was a combo. Meaning, Quinn wasn't showing it, and Mangini was feeling some heat. Getting fired from 2 HC positions doesn't do much for the nickname... so he threw in DA, just so he could say, "I played everybody I could."
I have to believe he felt like he had a QB on the roster, or we get Sanchized (good one, shep) in April. Nothing was working in the 1st couple of weeks, so he shows his hand. I really believe our D & ST lit the fire under the team this week. Just think of how pumped we were watching big D and big ST play; the offense fed off of that, imo, and we were treated to classic DA. Some great plays, and some not so great, and just not enough to get it done when we needed it (OT= 3 & outville). That's what we can expect this season. And then stressing out over a weak QB class this spring.
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Actually I don't know why I'm wasting my time as you Quinn guys already have your minds made up to view everything about this team negative since your boy doesn't fit into the plans, however I think as much went into removing Cribbs at WR because he was getting spent running phantom routes and wearing himself down as a very teeny part of the offense, as much so as he did because he wasn't running the right patterns.
They still want him involved in the offense, just don't want to waste him as a WR.
As far as my sight of the games and knowing if he was running the right patterns or not ... I posted after game one that he was finding seams and running in the clear. Did you post somewhere back then that he was blanketed, and that when Quinn looked his way he wasn't where he was supposed to be? naaa ... your curbing your view and stance to fit your argument.
In fact, if you think back to times Quinn threw his way, Quinn was setting Cribbs up to get racked by the safety, not that the CB who was covering him had him covered.
You Quinn guys...
I am talking about Josh Cribbs (and my whole original comment was in jest, hense the big ass smiley face next to it). You don't want your #2 WR to be a teeny part of your offense. Cribbs inablity to play WR was the reason for that, not ST.
He was covered on most plays. And he wasn't where I'd think he should be in the seem of a zone. I am not curbing anything. But you are trying to throw it into being about Quinn to fit your argument, which is that you only have your straw man, as usual.
But if you want to make it about DA/BQ, then what you are telling me is DA getting guys leveled is okay, Quinn doing it is not.
Masters said:
You Quinn guys... I am talking about Josh Cribbs (and my whole original comment was in jest, hense the big ass smiley face next to it).
You don't want your #2 WR to be a teeny part of your offense. Cribbs inablity to play WR was the reason for that, not ST.
He was covered on most plays. And he wasn't where I'd think he should be in the seem of a zone. I am not curbing anything. But you are trying to throw it into being about Quinn to fit your argument, which is that you only have your straw man, as usual.
But if you want to make it about DA/BQ, then what you are telling me is DA getting guys leveled is okay, Quinn doing it is not.
Seriously dude, you are a pansy-ass.
Getting WR's 'leveled' is part of the Pro game. Do you watch football? point out one game where a QB didn't throw to a receiver and he got leveled upon receiving it ... just one game, send me the clip. Along this line, I never said for or against this, what I said is that you keep saying that Cribbs was covered and couldn't gain seperation. I'm stating that I watched him run patterns endlessly in week #1 without Quinn even hardly glancing his way. This only tired him out and diminished his energy needed in the return game. Then I went on to point out that if you remember back on when Quinn did throw Cribbs' way, he was getting layed out by the Safety on a collision course while running through the seam. He wasn't having the ball batted out of his hands by the cover-corner, he just wasn't hit in time - causing the collision and incomplete pass.
Mangini meanwhile liked the development of MoMass, saw that he was wasting Cribbs in the offense which diminished his special teams play and he made a switch there. They still want to get Cribbs the ball, they just don't want to have him out running pattern after pattern for no use.
Yes, Quinn is on the bench because not only did his #2 have a teeny part in the offense, every other aspect of the offense had a teeny part in the offense. It was a teeny offense.
In addition, have you ever seen a #2 QB step in and connect with a back-up WR who he has been throwing to with the scout team and has established continuity with? It happens all the time, and a big reason why DA & MoMass connected well on Sunday. We will see how they fare this week with game film on them ... Braylon better be ready.
Farve last night layed his Receivers out all game, and they got leveled probably more than a dozen times. That's football away from dink-n-dunk throws, it's called threading the needle and making a play = throwing down field. Again, I have no problem with these throws as long as they aren't floaters ... my reason for bringing them up was for you to realize that Cribbs was in more head-on collisions as a receiver than he was getting his pocket picked from behind by not shedding his coverage.
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. Quinn has peaked. I've seen the same flaws in his game from his rookie year as I do now.
Please tell me you didn't just say that, yet will pump up DA?
Dude, DA has the same flaws since his sophmore year in college. The same flaws since he started his first game in 2006.
I won't even touch the Lerner conspiracy garbage. Because if there is any truth to that, this team is just as screwed and Managini is an automatic failure, because any coach that goes along w/ that crap has no business being and NFL coach. You don't succeed by sabotaging yourself.
Masters said:
Please tell me you didn't just say that, yet will pump up DA?Dude, DA has the same flaws since his sophmore year in college. The same flaws since he started his first game in 2006.
I won't even touch the Lerner conspiracy garbage. Because if there is any truth to that, this team is just as screwed and Managini is an automatic failure, because any coach that goes along w/ that crap has no business being and NFL coach. You don't succeed by sabotaging yourself.
You don't have to buy into the conspiracy theory it's just a theory. But Lerner needs to make his money before anything else and he did when that surprising announcement was made. What is Mangini supposed to do tell his boss he won't do it? Why do you think the leash was so short? I mean, they gave DA 8 games last year and we were terrible. If they really believed in Quinn (and I see nothing about him that I like) why would he get pulled that fast? Because the second coaching staff to have him is Retarded too?
And I will pump up DA because the kid has EVERYTHING an NFL QB needs to play in this league. His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him. He already improved on one glaring flaw, the play-action. Also, he made good decisions last week. Once that's done, you have a QB the teammates respect and a guy who can make every play on the field. Brady's flaws are all in his natural ability which he just doesn't have. If right now he were in High School or a freshman in college he would be awesome. But at this point in your career you really need to have developed some poise and some vision to make up for that slow release and lack of zip on your throws and he hasn't. On top of just plain ability, he doesn't seem to be mentally strong enough to play at this level. I may be wrong but I don't have another 3 years of waiting for him to eventually become a solid backup. With the two guys we have to choose from DA is easily the best guy at this point for the team. No doubt. And so it's time to sit back and watch the future unfold because I believe this coach and this QB will be here for a while. And I'm pretty happy about it. I mean, I lost in fantasy this week by 4 points for the second week in a row (thanks Jennings) and I'm still in a good mood!
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Masters said:
Please tell me you didn't just say that, yet will pump up DA?Dude, DA has the same flaws since his sophmore year in college. The same flaws since he started his first game in 2006.
I won't even touch the Lerner conspiracy garbage. Because if there is any truth to that, this team is just as screwed and Managini is an automatic failure, because any coach that goes along w/ that crap has no business being and NFL coach. You don't succeed by sabotaging yourself.
You don't have to buy into the conspiracy theory it's just a theory. But Lerner needs to make his money before anything else and he did when that surprising announcement was made. What is Mangini supposed to do tell his boss he won't do it? Why do you think the leash was so short? I mean, they gave DA 8 games last year and we were terrible. If they really believed in Quinn (and I see nothing about him that I like) why would he get pulled that fast? Because the second coaching staff to have him is Retarded too?
And I will pump up DA because the kid has EVERYTHING an NFL QB needs to play in this league. His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him. He already improved on one glaring flaw, the play-action. Also, he made good decisions last week. Once that's done, you have a QB the teammates respect and a guy who can make every play on the field. Brady's flaws are all in his natural ability which he just doesn't have. If right now he were in High School or a freshman in college he would be awesome. But at this point in your career you really need to have developed some poise and some vision to make up for that slow release and lack of zip on your throws and he hasn't. On top of just plain ability, he doesn't seem to be mentally strong enough to play at this level. I may be wrong but I don't have another 3 years of waiting for him to eventually become a solid backup. With the two guys we have to choose from DA is easily the best guy at this point for the team. No doubt. And so it's time to sit back and watch the future unfold because I believe this coach and this QB will be here for a while. And I'm pretty happy about it. I mean, I lost in fantasy this week by 4 points for the second week in a row (thanks Jennings) and I'm still in a good mood!
His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
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At the end of the day Brady couldnt get it done. He held a clipboard for 2 years and should be more than ready. What first round QB gets 2 years to sit and watch the game and arent ready? If there is one then he is a bust.
He got his shot and he failed. If the kid had a future I think that he would be in there. But he doesnt and is the 2nd maybe 3rd best QB on our team. We are probably just looking for a team to trade him to before he hurts his trade value anymore.
And as far as giving up 2 first round picks... That is false. We GOT the 22 pick from Dallas that year for a 2nd round that year and our 1st the following year. Which happened to be #22. So the 2 first round picks are a wash. Basically we gave up a high 2nd round pick for Brady. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Thanks Lums for that insight, I did not know those things about Derek Anderson.
Good having you around, or we'd only be watching dink-n-dunk on Sundays and Gay bashing Mon-Sat.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Lums quit making so much sense. Its not aloud around here.
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Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.
Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
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And after all that he is still better than Brady Quinn. Pretty boy needs to hold the clipboard and read defenses and put that education to use. Let Derek make the throws that he can not.
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.
Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
Masters said:
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
like I was saying I think Anderson's bad rep came from his junior year and everybody wrote him off before he caught on to Riley's offense and had a pretty damn good senior year. Issues like "finding the right receiver" were much improved with a year in the system. Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
It's interesting that it says he "is best in short to intermediate areas" when that's something BQ Nation has been trying to rip him for.
In my opinion the main thing Anderson needs to continue to work on is footwork and to not pull the trigger when he's not set. Anderson is not good at throwing when he's not square. He is not good throwing off his back foot. However when he steps up and throws from a square stance the ball is as accurate as anybody for any length of throw.
The only times I say "oh shit" when watching Anderson play are when he lets it go off his back foot. That almost always means trouble. He can't go Ben Rotburger and jack one up in the air and cross his fingers that Hines Ward will come out of nowhere to snag it. As long as he's not doing that the offense will move.
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Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Karlis Missed -
@inspecta said:
Because dude, then he'd have nothing to instigate the board with.Everybody is on board with DA starting the rest of the season, this is bad news for stan and lums. Because without our opposition they have nothing to post about, so they are now in the business of creating opposition that does not exist...
C'mon Lums ... let's go take on ChiefOrangeBlood ...
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Masters said:
Did I say put Quinn back in? I am not advocating that at this point. But I ain't buying that DA is suddenly not going to be DA.Lum, going from 47% completion rate to 54% over a 3 year college span is hardly progress. That's going from terrible to bad. Going from 24TD/24INT to 29TD/17INT between years isn't a great progress.
Here is a scouting report of DA coming out of college. What's changed (I have bolded those he still does)?
Analysis: Positives...Has a compact delivery, but raw mechanics...Carries the ball low and will revert to a slight side-arm slinger-type of delivery when on the move...Has a lot of passes deflected at the line of scrimmage when he does not unleash with a high release...Throws a tight spiral with velocity and low trajectory, but shows inconsistency on most of his throws...Has completed just a little bit over one half of his pass attempts and is prone to forcing his tosses into a crowd, resulting in 57 interceptions for his career...Plays with poise and will step up in the pocket to take a hit, but gets tunnel vision by locking on to his primary target, then forces the ball to that receiver, causing his wide outs to constantly look back at the pocket rather than progress through their routes...Is best in the short and intermediate areas, where he can hit his targets on the move...Has adequate foot quickness in his drops, but is inconsistent with his depth and push from the center...Can get the ball out quickly when he needs to, but also shows a bit of a long arm action too often...Really doesn't set his feet consistently, throws fading or off balance way too much...Has a tendency to just flick the ball and float it...Doesn't always square up rolling right or left and lacks accuracy in all areas due to poor mechanics...Knows how to take something off and use touch...Can put good velocity on throws when he sets his feet and steps into throws, but is inconsistent reading defenses and finding the open receiver...Has just adequate agility in the pocket, but does run well once he breaks out....Displays all the physical tools you look for in a quarterback, but he hasn't stepped up and been the player he's capable of...His long ball accuracy is a very big concern, as he seems to have plenty of arm strength behind it, but his throws are frequently off target...If some coach can unearth his talent, that NFL team can have a late-round find...Will be drafted more on his physical ability rather than production...Based on physical talent and arm strength, he's certainly worth a look in camp, but he needs to drastically upgrade his development to be considered anything more than a camp talent.
Progress.....(we need a emoticon of a head shaking).
like I was saying I think Anderson's bad rep came from his junior year and everybody wrote him off before he caught on to Riley's offense and had a pretty damn good senior year. Issues like "finding the right receiver" were much improved with a year in the system. Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
It's interesting that it says he "is best in short to intermediate areas" when that's something BQ Nation has been trying to rip him for.
In my opinion the main thing Anderson needs to continue to work on is footwork and to not pull the trigger when he's not set. Anderson is not good at throwing when he's not square. He is not good throwing off his back foot. However when he steps up and throws from a square stance the ball is as accurate as anybody for any length of throw.
The only times I say "oh shit" when watching Anderson play are when he lets it go off his back foot. That almost always means trouble. He can't go Ben Rotburger and jack one up in the air and cross his fingers that Hines Ward will come out of nowhere to snag it. As long as he's not doing that the offense will move.
Flacco probably had about the exact same write-up but got drafted 1st round for several reasons including hype and ability but also the fact that a very similar 6'6" Derek Anderson had just beaten the Ravens twice in a row.
That and someone actually thought highly of Flacco's ability to get better. To date they were correct on both guys ability to develope.
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we hear these words often from BQ Nation, although I sincerely doubt you watched more than a half a game of Oregon State football when Anderson was there.
Anderson's first year starting was his true soph year under Dennis Erickson where he broke the school record for yards and TDs. (Erickson is a good coach however his offense is pretty simple)
Anderson's second year starting was under Mike Riley who runs a much more complex pro style offense. This is the year he threw a lot of picks and got the bad rep. However this season Anderson became only the 2nd QB in pac 10 history to go over 4,000 yards passing in a season and he ended up with only one fewer TD pass.
Anderson's senior year gave him a lesser supporting cast as Steven Jackson had left early for the NFL. The team started out losing on a missed extra point in Baton Rouge and then fell to 1-4 but ended by winning 6 of their last 7 (1 loss by 1 TD to USC). This was far and away Anderson's best stretch and it ended with a 4 TD pass 50 point explosion over a favored Oregon Duck team QB'd by Kellen Clemens and then another 4 TD performance over a pompous Notre Dame team led by Brady Quinn.
As somebody who actually watched Anderson in college he was night and day improved by his sr year. He may have had a better college career if Erickson had stayed but although he had growing pains in the beginning with Mike Riley he is a better QB today because of Riley.
Also keep in mind that Anderson had 25, 24, and 29 TDs in college and the next season the QB was Matt Moore who had 11. The year after that Moore had 18 TDs. Moore is now the backup for the Carolina Panthers.
If you want to go back to high school Anderson had 87 TDs and 17 picks in 3 yrs of starting. Made the playoffs his soph yr, made the semis his jr year, and won the state championship his sr year. Sounds like progression there as well.
Thanks Lums for that insight, I did not know those things about Derek Anderson.
Good having you around, or we'd only be watching dink-n-dunk on Sundays and Gay bashing Mon-Sat.
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@jadbf said:
RIIIGHT because Lum's opinions affected the decision Mangini madecome on STAN.
Quit being such a queer trying to prop Lums up even when his QB is the one that's turned out to be the better choice.
Why can't it be enough that a number of people have now at least realized that DA is the QB that needs to start for this season?
Why can't it be enough that other parts of this team are starting to show progression?
Oh quit crying .... This place changes like the wind and I'm just making light of it, if the shoe fits it ain't on me. Take a snap shot back four weeks ago and there were some proud BQ Nation mo-foe's around here, and just as giddy about Cribbs at WR. Three weeks back, Lums was a puppet and so wrong it was laughable. Drop in two weeks back and the ultimatum was presented, "Lums must go because he is so wrong and not one of us". One week ago, Brady Nation was on the edge of their seats waiting for DA to fail. Today, everyone knows that DA ain't the longterm answer, sigh at Lums, blame the site owner ....
Next week? DA Jerseys sell like hot cakes at www.TheBrownsStore.com
What size do you need?
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His flaws can be coached out of him and schemed out of him.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
Masters said:
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.With his physical attributes (arm and height) which are what HC/GM/OC's have wet dreams about over a QB, you'd think someone around the NFL would have thought higher of him than a 6th round pick, if they really felt his flaws could simply be coached up.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
If you want to buy that, after his college coaching staff couldn't do it and neither could the previous coaching staff, fine. But I am not.
This implies that a player peaks in college and is ready day 1 in the NFL in the most difficult position in sports. Any QB needs a 3 year minimum to develope and since this would be technically his 3rd year; it's make or break for him. Plus, he has never been treated as the starter or "the guy" by any coaching staff. Two very important factors.
Heck, when DA was a RFA after his great 2007, if other teams really felt he just needing coached up, someone would have made an attempt to get him. A first and a thrid round pick for a guy with those tools and the ability to be coached up would be a steal. There is a reason DA accepted a less than market value contract.
Nobody is going to give up a first and third for a guy they need to develope. They can draft there own guy two years younger and do that in there system. And there was talk about trading to Dallas but Dallas wanted to trade with Baltimore so it never happened.
I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong about DA, but I am not holding my breath.
I think we're all gonna be pretty pleased with what we see from here on out. In 2007 DA was Jaworski's favorite young QB to watch on tape. 2008, everyone took a shit and DA, among others on the team, took a hit for it. I think it's his time. It's sink or swim time for DA and I think he's got it this time.
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