Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust?
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Atlanta made this mistake 17 years ago with their young QB who was just a hick from So. Miss.
Favre never started a game in Atlanta and threw only 4 passes there.
Quinn has started 6 games and thrown over 170 passes. He's started 4 other preseason games.
It's not like he's an unknown commodity (even though BQ Nation keeps saying that even as the game experience stacks up)
Favre never started a game in Atlanta and threw only 4 passes there.
Quinn has started 6 games and thrown over 170 passes. He's started 4 other preseason games.
It's not like he's an unknown commodity (even though BQ Nation keeps saying that even as the game experience stacks up)
Quinn has started 6 games, but with two OC, 2 HC, two off. systems. He played very well in the first game in his first stint and then broke his throwing hand finger, so discount 1 1/2 of those games that year. Then he has an new OC and HC who can't make up his damn mind on anything and yes, had 1 1/2 poor outings. Well, so did the whole team and the OC who calls the damn plays.
the bottom line, no matter what QB you are on bottom for Lumnuts, we don't know for sure yet on Quinn.
We DO know for sure that DA definitely is NOT the answer for the best future of the Browns. If you think he is, then the future of this franchise looks pretty damn bad. Almost as bad as DA's 3 INT's in one half.
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I love fuzzy logic. 29 NFL starts and 3 preseasons, not enough time to evaluate/develope. 5 1/2 NFL games, 2 1/2 preseasons, plenty of time to evaluate/develope
Watch, this will now be turned into me saying go back to BQ and I will be called a "BQ fag" (this is about your straw man and not either QB).
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I love fuzzy logic. 29 NFL starts and 3 preseasons, not enough time to evaluate/develope. 5 1/2 NFL games, 2 1/2 preseasons, plenty of time to evaluate/develope
Watch, this will now be turned into me saying go back to BQ and I will be called a "BQ fag" (this is about your straw man and not either QB).
Masters said:
I love fuzzy logic. 29 NFL starts and 3 preseasons, not enough time to evaluate/develope. 5 1/2 NFL games, 2 1/2 preseasons, plenty of time to evaluate/develope
Watch, this will now be turned into me saying go back to BQ and I will be called a "BQ fag" (this is about your straw man and not either QB).
as I've said before, you get more leash when you throw a shitload of TD passes in your first 6 games, beat the Bengals, beat the Ravens, get named NFL Player of the Week.
You go 1-5, throw a total of 3 TDs, you get less leash.
and quit spelling develop with an e on the end. I hate being a spelling bitch but you put that word in every damn post.
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this threads awesome. in summary....
queens ladies are still saying DA sucks.....
DA's boys are saying they know, but quinn sucks worse.
all of which is true.....at least we scored a touchdown....a feat the domer could get done. que the vast list of excuses used to defend DA 2 years ago....
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@jadbf said:
You see now this I actually agree with.We'd just disagree on the fact that I believe DA has wrapped his leash around the tree, and I'm not sure he has the ability to get himself unwrapped.
Oh my god, the leash around the tree is the worst. Hate it when that happens, damn dog is normally to stupid to get unwrapped. I know what you mean.
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The thing that bothers me the most about the whole thing is that we might NEVER know for sure. Ans that's what sucks, because of what the Browns traded away. How do you trade that away to jump up and never really find out if the kid has "it" or might develop "it"?
He has been screwed over his whole career by two different HC, 2 different OC and systems and only been given 2 1/2 games in a new system vs. 3 of the Top 7 Defenses in the league to show what he's got?
Hell, then Daboll should have been fired as well. His playcalling was horrible for those games. The personnel (MoMass, Harrsion) was different for those games.
Now, we pull him, right before we play the 16th ranked D and all of a sudden we start to play an actual WR at the #2 spot and put in a RB who can actually run. And lo and behold we get better. But, everyone wants to give DA all the credit.
To me, when it all comes down to it, I just can't believe we are judging this kid's career, one way or the other, on 2 1/2 games with a new OC who is horrible at playcalling.
We might never find out until he beats us with another team.
Atlanta made this mistake 17 years ago with their young QB who was just a hick from So. Miss.
Atlanta made this mistake 17 years ago with their young QB who was just a hick from So. Miss.
What if it is Anderson who is Favre?
Comparison of Favre's first 2 years and Anderson's:
1992-93 Green Bay Games 15 Rating 85.3 Completions 302 Attempts 471 Percentage 64.1 Yards 3227 TD 18 INT 13
1993-94 Green Bay Games 16 Rating 72.2 Completions 318 Attempts 522 Percentage 60.9 Yards 3303 TD 19 INT 24
2007 CLE Games 16 Rating 82.5 Completions 298 Attempts 527 Percentage 56.5 Yards 3787 TD 29 INT 19
2008 CLE Games 10 Rating 66.5 Completions 142 Attempts 283 Percentage 50.2 Yards 1615 TD 9 INT 8
Anderson's 2007 season actually compares favorably to Favre. Favre has always been in a high % YAC system which will affect passer rating, which is heavily driven by completion percentage. Anderson had more yards, more TDs, and a much better TD to INT ratio in 2007. Anderson led his team to a 10-5 record. Favre was 9-6.
Anderson's fall off in 2008 was more pronounced than Favre's in 93, but Favre did regress . . . at least statistically. Favre's rating dipped to a sub Couch/Holcomb type rating of 72 in a system that lends itself to high completion percentages. He threw far more picks than TDs.
I don't think that Anderson is Favre. And that's going to be a tough comparison for ANY QB. But if the argument is that we know by Anderson's 27 games what we have -- and we determined that by Anderson's regression in 2008 -- the Favre comparison would show an accepted dip in year two.
And with Winslow hurt or ineffective for almost the entire 2008 season and Donte Stallworth an invisible replacement for JJ no matter who started, I'd take my chances with Sterling Sharpe, Mark Clayton and Jackie Harris over Braylon Edwards, Donte Stallworth and a revolving door of Steve Heiden and a damaged Kellen Winslow. I'm crazy that way.
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@jadbf said:
Comparing Anderson to Favre makes as much sense as comparing Quinn to Eli Manning....Anderson is to Favre as Quinn is to:
A. Peyton Manning
B. Eli Manning
C. Archie Manning
D. Rick Manning
So Eli was the answer?
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Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Taking QBs & RBs high in the draft often has poor results. The glamour positions are high-risk, high-reward.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the failed draft picks of many franchises, starting with our own. Drafting high doesn't guarantee success, just ask the Cowboys, Steelers, & Raiders of the 70s (Rams, Redskins, & Dolphins too), who basically dominated that era and picked anywhere from 21-26 before expansion. Or in today's case, look at the Browns, Raiders, & Lions for instance, drafting high and not getting high returns.
You HAVE to get a bit lucky with your picks, even after all the homework these teams do in preparation for the draft.
Or good....Can't not take a Qb if your picking #1 in the draft...especially this upcoming year... This is where all QB controversy starts in Cleveland....to pick a QB #1 or not...to me there is no not with us having a franchise LT in place....no question what so ever.
P.S i wanted ricky williams...because we had no Oline to protect a franchise Qb
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@jadbf said:
Comparing Anderson to Favre makes as much sense as comparing Quinn to Eli Manning....Anderson is to Favre as Quinn is to:
A. Peyton Manning
B. Eli Manning
C. Archie Manning
D. Rick Manning
So Eli was the answer?
Anderson is to Favre as Quinn is to:
A. Peyton Manning
B. Eli Manning
C. Archie Manning
D. Rick Manning
So Eli was the answer?
It was E. Rex Manning
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Man, we use to debate this endlessly in the Couch years. I believe the consensus was that you can find a retread QB that can be very productive for you through free agency, but teams just don't give up and kick a great RB to the curb (unless otherwise a head case), you will have to draft one and usually high.
Yeah, while I don't totally disagree, it just gets so much more magnified when you draft a Ki-Jana Carter, Rashan Salaam, Heath Schuler, Tim Couch, etc., and they don't pan out (injury, poor performance, not NFL-ready, whatever). It sets your team back big time.
It is indeed a tiresome debate, especially in Cleveland, where we have far too many misses than hits.
Yeah, while I don't totally disagree, it just gets so much more magnified when you draft a Ki-Jana Carter, Rashan Salaam, Heath Schuler, Tim Couch, etc., and they don't pan out (injury, poor performance, not NFL-ready, whatever). It sets your team back big time.
It is indeed a tiresome debate, especially in Cleveland, where we have far too many misses than hits.
From that logic we should never take QB with the #1 pick...lol....detroit shy'd away for way too long, Bengels shied away way too long, watch Oakland shy away for way too long, but eli manning, rivers,rothlis,ryan,flacco,sanchez don't be surprised if very soon belicheck doesn't jump up in one of these drafts and gets him a top flight QB....If bq truly aint it...time for a new one we have the LT now get the QB
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And i thought this thread was going to be only about BQ.
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@jadbf said:
Comparing Anderson to Favre makes as much sense as comparing Quinn to Eli Manning....As I said before, arm strength is where the comparison to Favre starts and ends for DA. When you see 60% and 56% completion percentages, you just stop.
Masters said:
As I said before, arm strength is where the comparison to Favre starts and ends for DA. When you see 60% and 56% completion percentages, you just stop.But back to the original point, at least that's ONE ground on which to compare Anderson and Favre as opposed to Quinn and Favre.
The second is Anderson's superior first year with his team as QB.
The third is that both QBs regressed in their second season.
Terry Bradshaw and John Elway spent most of their careers completing about 56% of their passes. In fact, Bradshaw eclipsed 60% one year -- his last. Dan Marino spent the majority of his career completing about 57 or 58% of his passes. Only 5 out of his 17 years he had a completion % of over 60%.
A QB can be effective and not complete 60% of his passes or can be ineffective completing 65% of his passes. Frye completed almost 65% of his passes in 2006-2007. Sipe only reached a 60% completion percentage in one year with Cleveland . . . barely and Kosar had more seasons under 60% than over 60%. He competed his highest percentage in his worst year 1992 (66%) and one of his lowest percentages in his best year 1986 (58%).
In isolation it's one of the biggest garbage stats in football. One 12 yard pass equals 3 four yard passes.
Give me Anderson's TD passes, yards and TD/INT ratio in 2007 over Favre's completion percentage in 1992 any day.
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Masters said:
As I said before, arm strength is where the comparison to Favre starts and ends for DA. When you see 60% and 56% completion percentages, you just stop.But back to the original point, at least that's ONE ground on which to compare Anderson and Favre as opposed to Quinn and Favre.
The second is Anderson's superior first year with his team as QB.
The third is that both QBs regressed in their second season.
Terry Bradshaw and John Elway spent most of their careers completing about 56% of their passes. In fact, Bradshaw eclipsed 60% one year -- his last. Dan Marino spent the majority of his career completing about 57 or 58% of his passes. Only 5 out of his 17 years he had a completion % of over 60%.
A QB can be effective and not complete 60% of his passes or can be ineffective completing 65% of his passes. Frye completed almost 65% of his passes in 2006-2007. Sipe only reached a 60% completion percentage in one year with Cleveland . . . barely and Kosar had more seasons under 60% than over 60%. He competed his highest percentage in his worst year 1992 (66%) and one of his lowest percentages in his best year 1986 (58%).
In isolation it's one of the biggest garbage stats in football. One 12 yard pass equals 3 four yard passes.
Give me Anderson's TD passes, yards and TD/INT ratio in 2007 over Favre's completion percentage in 1992 any day.
But back to the original point, at least that's ONE ground on which to compare Anderson and Favre as opposed to Quinn and Favre.
The second is Anderson's superior first year with his team as QB.
The third is that both QBs regressed in their second season.
Terry Bradshaw and John Elway spent most of their careers completing about 56% of their passes. In fact, Bradshaw eclipsed 60% one year -- his last. Dan Marino spent the majority of his career completing about 57 or 58% of his passes. Only 5 out of his 17 years he had a completion % of over 60%.
A QB can be effective and not complete 60% of his passes or can be ineffective completing 65% of his passes. Frye completed almost 65% of his passes in 2006-2007. Sipe only reached a 60% completion percentage in one year with Cleveland . . . barely and Kosar had more seasons under 60% than over 60%. He competed his highest percentage in his worst year 1992 (66%) and one of his lowest percentages in his best year 1986 (58%).
In isolation it's one of the biggest garbage stats in football. One 12 yard pass equals 3 four yard passes.
Give me Anderson's TD passes, yards and TD/INT ratio in 2007 over Favre's completion percentage in 1992 any day.
There should be no comparison between Favre and Quinn. I'd fully agree that whole thing was silly.
As to the middle there, I'd say you also start getting into different era's a football, and statistical comparisons get fuzzy. You got QBs who spent their careers in an era where DBs could chuck WR all over field and knock them on their ass at the LOS if they wanted. The rules of the passing game are far different today than Favre in the early 90's, Elway and Kosar in the 80's (and early 90's for Elway), or the 70's for Bradshaw.
In the NFL today, 60% seems to be the general barrometer used.
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Really? The GM didn't line everyone up , coaches, scouts, ball boys, and janitors in training camp in 2008 and say 'DA IS OUR GUY'?? they didn't give him a huge contract after 2007?? You are right though, this is his make or break season...so far he is 0-1.
Ahh one of my favorite stock replies. If you thought for one second that DA was secured that position your out of your mind. Every year he has had a backup QB behind him who sells a lot more jerseys, has a lot more commercials, and has more reporters at his locker than he does. It has never been his job. And the contract was a reward for 2007, not a statement about his future.
I can remember when he was doing really well in 2007 and people were kind of holding there breath and asking "well, what about Brady?" It has never been his job....until now.
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Really? The GM didn't line everyone up , coaches, scouts, ball boys, and janitors in training camp in 2008 and say 'DA IS OUR GUY'?? they didn't give him a huge contract after 2007?? You are right though, this is his make or break season...so far he is 0-1.
Ahh one of my favorite stock replies. If you thought for one second that DA was secured that position your out of your mind. Every year he has had a backup QB behind him who sells a lot more jerseys, has a lot more commercials, and has more reporters at his locker than he does. It has never been his job. And the contract was a reward for 2007, not a statement about his future.
I can remember when he was doing really well in 2007 and people were kind of holding there breath and asking "well, what about Brady?" It has never been his job....until now.
Ahh one of my favorite stock replies. If you thought for one second that DA was secured that position your out of your mind. Every year he has had a backup QB behind him who sells a lot more jerseys, has a lot more commercials, and has more reporters at his locker than he does. It has never been his job. And the contract was a reward for 2007, not a statement about his future.
I can remember when he was doing really well in 2007 and people were kind of holding there breath and asking "well, what about Brady?" It has never been his job....until now.
The best is when someone throws up their arms and says, "Oh great, now Brady's psych is gonna be damaged!"
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@jadbf said:
I personally prefer when people actually believe DA is getting better.I personally prefer when people think others are better (than DA).
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@jadbf said:
So then what was the point of your post? He still has that back up behind him. That back up still sells more jerseys I'll bet (likely not as many more now...). And people will still be calling for Brady the next time DA has another 23 QBR game. Mangini picked Quinn to start first, then went to DA.what exactly has changed?
That you're convinced DA can actually be a real QB some day in this league? Nope don't think that has ever changed. Delusions are hard to shake.
Yes I am convinced he WILL be a starter for the rest of his career here or somewhere else. I hope its here. The difference now is that I believe Lerner has finally figured it out after two coaches have showed him, that Brady cannot play in this league. So now we can work on DA's game and develope him. I wouldn't call that a delusion in fact; it's actually based on real life observations and a body of work. Quinnies have absolutely nothing to go on but insist he is better than DA. That is more of a delusion.
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