Peter King
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Earle - For the last 4 years, save for maybe Josh Cribbs, there was no one who played harder on the field than Kellen Winslow. He could have very well been a ding dong off of it (and by many accounts, he was). Miami didn't need a major dose of TNT after their 1-15 season? Some would argue they did.
I understand about the discipline and I'm all for it. Look, my HS lacrosse coach made me run around the campus (3+ miles) every time I shot "high" (putting the rock in the upper 90 corner was way sexier than bouncing one past the goalie) in practice - but not in games. But he was a HOF'er, All-American and also knew how to draw up a play in the dirt, and adjust our gameplan by exploiting mismatches to win. I was fast, could score when called upon, and could shut-down damn near anyone when playing defense. I (and the rest of the team) did what we were asked because we got results. So, if I didn't score a goal in a game because I was in the opposing team's top attackman's back pocket (and ear) all game, then so be it. WE WON CHAMPIONSHIPS. And this in a game where you turn-over 1/3 of your roster every year.
How does this translate to the Browns? With a little creativity (I'm being reasonable, not suggesting we use the VEE or the Spread option), and accountability (Anderson & Royal shouldn't see another down - Barton is getting close), the NFL can be a win now league. Winning and rebuilding are not mutually exclusive, if you have a smart and effective Coach (capitalized for emphasis - meaning, not just the guy with the headset on the sideline).
But again, I'm not completely disagreeing with your post. Just saying that the house-cleaning can occur with success at the same time if you know what you're doing.
And shep-
I agree with you too. We've got most of the pieces in place but haven't we been saying that for 3+ years?
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Earle - For the last 4 years, save for maybe Josh Cribbs, there was no one who played harder on the field than Kellen Winslow. He could have very well been a ding dong off of it (and by many accounts, he was). Miami didn't need a major dose of TNT after their 1-15 season? Some would argue they did.
I understand about the discipline and I'm all for it. Look, my HS lacrosse coach made me run around the campus (3+ miles) every time I shot "high" (putting the rock in the upper 90 corner was way sexier than bouncing one past the goalie) in practice - but not in games. But he was a HOF'er, All-American and also knew how to draw up a play in the dirt, and adjust our gameplan by exploiting mismatches to win. I was fast, could score when called upon, and could shut-down damn near anyone when playing defense. I (and the rest of the team) did what we were asked because we got results. So, if I didn't score a goal in a game because I was in the opposing team's top attackman's back pocket (and ear) all game, then so be it. WE WON CHAMPIONSHIPS. And this in a game where you turn-over 1/3 of your roster every year.
How does this translate to the Browns? With a little creativity (I'm being reasonable, not suggesting we use the VEE or the Spread option), and accountability (Anderson & Royal shouldn't see another down - Barton is getting close), the NFL can be a win now league. Winning and rebuilding are not mutually exclusive, if you have a smart and effective Coach (capitalized for emphasis - meaning, not just the guy with the headset on the sideline).
But again, I'm not completely disagreeing with your post. Just saying that the house-cleaning can occur with success at the same time if you know what you're doing.
And shep-
I agree with you too. We've got most of the pieces in place but haven't we been saying that for 3+ years?
Earle - For the last 4 years, save for maybe Josh Cribbs, there was no one who played harder on the field than Kellen Winslow. He could have very well been a ding dong off of it (and by many accounts, he was). Miami didn't need a major dose of TNT after their 1-15 season? Some would argue they did.
I understand about the discipline and I'm all for it. Look, my HS lacrosse coach made me run around the campus (3+ miles) every time I shot "high" (putting the rock in the upper 90 corner was way sexier than bouncing one past the goalie) in practice - but not in games. But he was a HOF'er, All-American and also knew how to draw up a play in the dirt, and adjust our gameplan by exploiting mismatches to win. I was fast, could score when called upon, and could shut-down damn near anyone when playing defense. I (and the rest of the team) did what we were asked because we got results. So, if I didn't score a goal in a game because I was in the opposing team's top attackman's back pocket (and ear) all game, then so be it. WE WON CHAMPIONSHIPS. And this in a game where you turn-over 1/3 of your roster every year.
How does this translate to the Browns? With a little creativity (I'm being reasonable, not suggesting we use the VEE or the Spread option), and accountability (Anderson & Royal shouldn't see another down - Barton is getting close), the NFL can be a win now league. Winning and rebuilding are not mutually exclusive, if you have a smart and effective Coach (capitalized for emphasis - meaning, not just the guy with the headset on the sideline).
But again, I'm not completely disagreeing with your post. Just saying that the house-cleaning can occur with success at the same time if you know what you're doing.
And shep-
I agree with you too. We've got most of the pieces in place but haven't we been saying that for 3+ years?
Fairly stated but I could and will willingly argue that Bill Parcells came in and fired Cam Cameron (one year into his deal), jettisoned his chosen "QB of the future" (J. Beck) and rid himself of the franchise player (J. Taylor) who wasn't about the Parcells program. This Browns team needed a lot of changes and Mangini will keep guys that are worth keeping (he's not stupid). I don't believe that he thinks Anderson's stats are up to par but I do think that he believes Anderson gives him a better chance to win by what he forces the defense to do. I don't want to get into another QB debate but this is an example of the "better chance to win" theory being about what's in the meeting room and on the coaches' film rather than what's in the stat column. The most important stat is a "W" and we have one now. While we can all roll our eyes at 2 for 17 passing, those that were in attendance at the game will admit that the winds were swirling at 40 mph and that there were more than a couple well-thrown balls that were simply dropped. Can you hang that on DA? I don't know how you can but more importantly,...I don't think EM would and honestly, he's the one who matters.
I think that most people who write anything about the Browns nationally don't even watch the Browns' games. I don't think they realize how bad this locker room was when the new regime arrived.
That said, I'm thinking that by the end of this season, the Browns will come around. I'm not predicting anything more than "come out and smack you in the mouth" competitiveness and desire but I think that there will be at least one game this season that the Browns upset someone's apple cart. That's not a stretch in my opinion.
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I'm definitely not hanging any of the legitimate drops on Anderson. (4-5ish) It's a total concentration and spirit killer for Anderson. I think that our coaches do not actually know what they have at quarterback right now. They made a mistake, and are using the "best chance to win" to cover it up. They can fall back to the 2007 season for a response as to why Anderson is starting (just like many on the board are doing).
But yeah, I'm in total agreement regarding the necessity of the locker-room overhaul. The aww-shucks attitude garners no respect. (Trying. to. avoid. another rip. on. DA.) whew. And the no-discipline leads to the mental failure we see out there every week (and saw for the past several years). Drops included.
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Legacy, as bad as it sounds....DA was the pick all along and if EM's track record with Pennington vs. Clemens can be of any guidance then he's just going to pick the guy and move on without wasting any more time on it. Some might argue that it's better that way because it muffles the arguing but in the end (as we all know) you don't really have a QB in that instance.
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What burns me up is the totality of the K2, Sanchez, BE deal. MoMass could have still been had. And maybe Magoola too. I wasn't high on Rey, but he's playing fairly well. And he's playing. Cant say the same for Veikune.
Sanchez doesnt seem to have any trouble throwing to BE. Imagine what we could have had for Quinn.
This is a serious mistake in player eval on Manini's part. 2.5 games? Total Bullshit. That kind of evaluation could have been made in the offseason.
Hell, Lumberg made it 2 years ago.
Sanchez doesnt seem to have any trouble throwing to BE. Imagine what we could have had for Quinn.
Remember the night he and DA put up against the Giants on Monday Night last year? It dwarfed that last game.
Just reinforces that Braylon gives effort when Braylon gives effort. And he quit doing it outside of Monday Night for Mangini and Crennell before him.
He had to go.
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Sanchez doesnt seem to have any trouble throwing to BE. Imagine what we could have had for Quinn.
Remember the night he and DA put up against the Giants on Monday Night last year? It dwarfed that last game.
Just reinforces that Braylon gives effort when Braylon gives effort. And he quit doing it outside of Monday Night for Mangini and Crennell before him.
He had to go.
Remember the night he and DA put up against the Giants on Monday Night last year? It dwarfed that last game.
Just reinforces that Braylon gives effort when Braylon gives effort. And he quit doing it outside of Monday Night for Mangini and Crennell before him.
He had to go.
Cant argue with that. Time will tell if BE only gave effort for a scattershot QB who got all of the credit for the 2007 season despite the circus catches routinely made by BE & K2 only when the rest of the world was watching (MNF's), instead of every Sunday. Because in his mind, the UM-tOSU thing existed, and why would he give it all for fans who didnt care for him?
(Just positing, I think for anyone to feel & act that way is completely ridiculous, but not out of the realm of possibility.)
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I posted this earlier today. Guess people don't use the scroll button on their mouses.
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The pessimist view on Kok's quote is he's simply buying time.
Seriously, why would he say something like: "Savage did a great job assembling talent for the most part. We're only a few pieces away from being competitive." Even if they believed that (doubtful) they still would say something more like ... well .... what he said.
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Tweet:
RT @mark_w_wellner: Any chance Joe Thomas gets traded to the packers? ... In the immortal words of Dean Wormer: 'Zero point zero zero.'
about 13 hours ago from TweetDeck
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I believe that Mangini and Kokinis turned over 26 players in the off season (cut or released) I think of those 26, 2 are on active rosters (53 man squads) and a couple on practice squads. I mean thats freakin bad..really bad. So it stands to reason theres a couple more guys who should be gone , but just can't be gone..YET. 11 draft picks is huge and allows a ton of manueving on Draft Day up or down depending what they are looking for.
Taking into account the Ravens drafts and the Jet drafts over the last 3-4 years I'm pretty confident that George and Eric will be bringin in some "Baller's".
Things are moving in the right direction for the Browns...FINALLY
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All I have to say is that if we beat Pittsburgh by some miracle, I will truly believe.
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I'm not a predictor, but in saying that we will give the Steelers a good game..The defense looks like its starting to grasp the concepts that are being taught and good pressure on Ben will occur.
I'm not trying to criticize Romeo and Phil but the "fact" in my last post is a telling one for sure
I think EM and GK have a plan and are working toward that moving forward.
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@jadbf said:
I just really can't over estimate how important it is for a regime to be able to get the players to buy into what ever system they are building. Yes you need good players too. But you can have the best athlete in the game, and if he doesn't buy into your system, it's like driving your ferrari with the parking break stuck on.See TO as an example on many teams.
And it's why great head coaches make average players look exceptional.
GOOD POINT J! And alot of people don't realize the addition by subtraction of Divas that may have this elite talent but they ALSO think they know more than the new coaching staff workngn with them.
Here's a reality - how many wins does the Winslow's new team have since he joined them? Okay, how many wins have the Jets enjoyed since Edwards arrived?
It sure seems like Shaun Rogers is emerging as the leader we'd hoped he'd be especially in the last 2 weeks. Is it a coincidence that this is around the same time Braylon was sent packing and all that was in the works behind the scenes?
SOMETIMES the hope is one of the Superstars takes pride that he's the man and he becomes MORE of a Ray Lewis type of leader (not so much in greatness but via EXAMPLE). I pretty much learned the difference in the Pittsburgh Steelers WITH #43 and WITHOUT him. It's enormous. He's not loud but who outworks the most talented player on that defense?
I can't join the media people that want to jump on every impefection that remains in the first season of transition with the new brass. All I can do is feel upbeat we have a STRONG pulse from the following young players:
Joe Thomas
Jerome Harrison
Alex Mack
Abraham Elam
Kam Wimbley (he's BACK)
Eric Wright
Josh Cribbs
MoMass (we'll really see this when we get a legit #1 WR as we saw when Cincy rolled their coverages to Edwards)
D'Qwell Jackson (last couple of weeks showed me something)
Lawrence Vickers
I don't think we're as far away as it appears sometimes. Refraining from the QB Civil War in this thread, I think the places we're hurting most is TE and at the #1 WR spot. I wish Braylon well in NY - BUT that's not the place you want to be dropping passes on 3rd down at home. They'll be a little more vicious in the press when/if that re-surfaces there. I promise!
- Tom F.
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