Let's give up on these guys
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how many different ways can we mask a post that BQ was wronged?
kinda like a tootsie pop....
but then you went and typed this gem...."And those professional talent evaluators are the know all and be of everything, right? Remember, they work for the Browns who haven't been able to judge decent talent for 10 years. "
lets see, cause you make a good point. those same people that you charge can't evalutate talent for the last 10 years are the guys that pulled the trigger on the domer, and gave away picks while doing it. the next regime, whom you are trying your best to lump in with the likes of savage, have said, thru actions, that the domer isn't worth a damn and isn't worth looking at any further.
I am not sure I follow what point you are trying to make. Suffice it to say, that yes, the last 10 years of Browns personell selection has been exceedingly poor. I simply would like to confirm, either way, whether the selection of BQ was a continuation of this poor performance or not. The only way to judge that is to see him play.
I am not sure I follow what point you are trying to make. Suffice it to say, that yes, the last 10 years of Browns personell selection has been exceedingly poor. I simply would like to confirm, either way, whether the selection of BQ was a continuation of this poor performance or not. The only way to judge that is to see him play.
you said, in the same breath, that our personnel decisions have been piss poor the last 10 years, and i fully agree. where you post gets weird is that after establishing that our past talent evaluators sucked, you then go on to make a case about the QB that our past GM mortgaged the farm for.
see why that doesn't compute?
then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass.
point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here.
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Your point has some validity. DA has played in 35 games, started 27. That is just around 2 full seasons of games.
The problem with DA is that he has not shown any progression. Quite the opposite, he seems to have regressed. Plus he has at least had that time....more than Charlie Frye, more than Ryan Leaf, to prove himself. WE think we know what we have with DA. We have no clue with BQ.
If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis.
nmills said:
If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis.Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there. Of course part of the "dropped passes" problem could possibly be that DA has no touch on his passes....though, if the receiver gets his hands on the ball he should catch it.
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All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre
The answer is no.
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I am not sure I follow what point you are trying to make. Suffice it to say, that yes, the last 10 years of Browns personell selection has been exceedingly poor. I simply would like to confirm, either way, whether the selection of BQ was a continuation of this poor performance or not. The only way to judge that is to see him play.
you said, in the same breath, that our personnel decisions have been piss poor the last 10 years, and i fully agree. where you post gets weird is that after establishing that our past talent evaluators sucked, you then go on to make a case about the QB that our past GM mortgaged the farm for.
see why that doesn't compute?
then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass.
point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here.
you said, in the same breath, that our personnel decisions have been piss poor the last 10 years, and i fully agree. where you post gets weird is that after establishing that our past talent evaluators sucked, you then go on to make a case about the QB that our past GM mortgaged the farm for.
see why that doesn't compute?
then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass.
point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here.
And the evidence is also true that Bernie Kosar and Brian Sipe should have been shipped out after their first season here. (Hell, remember that Sipe did not actually become the Browns starter until about his 4th or 5th season in the league).
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what evidence? im not making a case, either way, using stats.
want to address the hole in the logic?
edit: im not being sarcastic, and not faulting ya for likin the kid. but i dont understand how you can make the comment on our failed talent evaluators, precede it by a veiled attempt to trap people into judging stats, then follow it up with a plea to play the kid who was drafted by those incompetents. seriously, i dont follow it.
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nmills said:
If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis.Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there. Of course part of the "dropped passes" problem could possibly be that DA has no touch on his passes....though, if the receiver gets his hands on the ball he should catch it.
Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there.
Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.
And that was before the pittsburgh game.
So your suspicions are wrong.
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So entirely sick of you...trying to defend 2 td passes and 6 picks and throw in two lost fumbles...Derek Anderson SUCKS!
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Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there.
Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.
And that was before the pittsburgh game.
So your suspicions are wrong.
Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.
And that was before the pittsburgh game.
So your suspicions are wrong.
My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops, or alternatively, DA throws too hard when he doesn't need to, he throws behind or in front of receivers and they get hit with drops for passes that are off target.
But, I am not really trying to make this a DA vs. BQ issue. I am simply saying that there is no reason to give up on a guy you haven't even given a chance to see how he plays.
And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him.
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Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.
And that was before the pittsburgh game.
So your suspicions are wrong.
My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops, or alternatively, DA throws too hard when he doesn't need to, he throws behind or in front of receivers and they get hit with drops for passes that are off target.
But, I am not really trying to make this a DA vs. BQ issue. I am simply saying that there is no reason to give up on a guy you haven't even given a chance to see how he plays.
And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him.
My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops
at the time of those stats Anderson had thrown 84 passes, Quinn 93.
So no, you're wrong again.
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Here are the stats of some guys that, apparently, given their propensity, the Browns should give up on:
Player 1: 5 career games played. 16 career catches. 278 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 2: 2 career games played. 1 career catch. 23 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 3: 2 career games played. 9 career runs. 15 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 4: 4 career games played. 5 career tackles.
Player 5: 67 career games played. 25 career catches. 192 receiving yards. 1 receiving TD.
Player 6. 38 career games played. 138 career carries. 676 career yards. 1 rushing TD.
Player 7. 16 career games played. 13 career tackles. 1 caused fumble
Player 8: 7 career games played. 95 career completions. 963 career yards. 3 career TDs. 5 career ints. 11 sacks
Let me know if you think all of these guys should be dumped.
Here are the stats of some guys that, apparently, given their propensity, the Browns should give up on:
Player 1: 5 career games played. 16 career catches. 278 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 2: 2 career games played. 1 career catch. 23 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 3: 2 career games played. 9 career runs. 15 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 4: 4 career games played. 5 career tackles.
Player 5: 67 career games played. 25 career catches. 192 receiving yards. 1 receiving TD.
Player 6. 38 career games played. 138 career carries. 676 career yards. 1 rushing TD.
Player 7. 16 career games played. 13 career tackles. 1 caused fumble
Player 8: 7 career games played. 95 career completions. 963 career yards. 3 career TDs. 5 career ints. 11 sacks
Let me know if you think all of these guys should be dumped.
Sorry Gipper...I am sure those are are all great players...we could list hundreds with similar numbers who totally sucked.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go.
Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.
And that was before the pittsburgh game.
So your suspicions are wrong.
My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops, or alternatively, DA throws too hard when he doesn't need to, he throws behind or in front of receivers and they get hit with drops for passes that are off target.
But, I am not really trying to make this a DA vs. BQ issue. I am simply saying that there is no reason to give up on a guy you haven't even given a chance to see how he plays.
And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him.
And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him on the bench.
ftfy
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What POS QB are you talking about?
QB rating : Leaf 50.0 Anderson 71.0
% completions: Leaf 48.4 Anderson 53.5
YPA : Leaf 5.6 Anderson 6.5
TD/Int ratio: Leaf 14/36 Anderson 45/41
fumbles/fumbles lost: Leaf 24/12 Anderson 18/7
sacks: Leaf 65 Anderson 42
In what statistical category does Anderson have worse stats than Leaf?
Quinn's career stats: 7 games played. 6 starts. 93 of 171. 54.4% completion rate. 963 yards. 3 TDs. 1.8% TD%
5 Ints. 2.9% int. rate. 5.6 yds/att. 64.5 Rating
11 sacks. 6.0% sack rate.
Compare DA: 35 games played. 27 starts. 554 of 1035. 53.5% completion rate. 6701 yards. 45 TDs. 4.3% TD %
41 Ints. 4.0% Int.%. 6.5 yds/att. 71.7 Rating
42 sacks. 3.9% sack rate.
Look, who knows what could happen. Niether if these guys have had quality careers to date.
All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre...or the next Ryan Leaf. And I don't know either way. I say give him 20 games...same as was give Leaf, same as was given Charlie Frye, to find out.
Quinn's career stats: 7 games played. 6 starts. 93 of 171. 54.4% completion rate. 963 yards. 3 TDs. 1.8% TD%
5 Ints. 2.9% int. rate. 5.6 yds/att. 64.5 Rating
11 sacks. 6.0% sack rate.
Compare DA: 35 games played. 27 starts. 554 of 1035. 53.5% completion rate. 6701 yards. 45 TDs. 4.3% TD %
41 Ints. 4.0% Int.%. 6.5 yds/att. 71.7 Rating
42 sacks. 3.9% sack rate.
Look, who knows what could happen. Niether if these guys have had quality careers to date.
All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre...or the next Ryan Leaf. And I don't know either way. I say give him 20 games...same as was give Leaf, same as was given Charlie Frye, to find out.
So since Ryan Leaf was given 20 starts, the Browns should give Brady Quinn 20 starts to see if he's the next Ryan Leaf. Just great.
By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve.
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How about these bums. Should they not have been given up on? Stats from first games:
QB #1: 10 games, 5 starts. 59 of 108 for 54.6% completion rate. 605 yards. 5.6 yds/att.
1 TD. 0.9% TD rate. 7 ints. 6.5% ints rate
47.0 Rating. 15 sacks for a 12.2% sack rate
QB#2: 12 games, 10 starts. 124 of 248 for 50% completion rate. 1578 yards 6.4 yds/att
8 TDs. 3.2 % TD rate. 7 ints. 2.8% int rate
69.3 rating. 19 sacks for a 7.1 % sack rating
In a lot of ways, Quinn's stats are superior to most of these.
FYI, QB #1 was Sipe, QB #2 Kosar.
Order of completion %: BS, BQ, BK
Order of TD%: BK, BQ, BS
Order of Int.%: BK, BQ, BS
Order of yds/att: BK, tie BQ and BS
Order of Rating: BK, BQ, BS
Order of Sack %: BQ, BK, BS
Also, yards per game: BQ 137.6, BK 131.0, BS 60.3
Order of completion %: BS, BQ, BK
Order of TD%: BK, BQ, BS
Order of Int.%: BK, BQ, BS
Order of yds/att: BK, tie BQ and BS
Order of Rating: BK, BQ, BS
Order of Sack %: BQ, BK, BS
Also, yards per game: BQ 137.6, BK 131.0, BS 60.3
Now Add DA's first season of starts and do the order... that'd be an even way to measure things.
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All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre
The answer is no.
"All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre"
The answer is no.
Correct, Lums. I agree. And your buddy has about an equal chance of being the next John Elway.
Right now, the odds say DA has a far more likelihood of following the Jeff George (without the attitude) path to oblivion, as ever amounting to a hill of beans.
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perhaps giving this guys a proper more time to prove their worth
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perhaps giving this guys a proper more time to prove their worth
perhaps giving this guys a proper more time to prove their worth
Just exactly how much time should they be given? I'm pretty much in favor of smacking them in the head with a big board to see if it will do any good.
I think Anderson has been given more than enough rope and hasn't show ME anything. I'm dying to know what the coaches see that encourages them to keep him in. I miss seeing those nice little across the middle passes that Quinn is good at. Honestly I'm not that enamoured with either of these QBs. I just hate sitting on pins and needles waiting for the inevitable INT at a key moment.
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My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops
at the time of those stats Anderson had thrown 84 passes, Quinn 93.
So no, you're wrong again.
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Here are the stats of some guys that, apparently, given their propensity, the Browns should give up on:
Player 1: 5 career games played. 16 career catches. 278 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 2: 2 career games played. 1 career catch. 23 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 3: 2 career games played. 9 career runs. 15 career yards. -0- career TDs
Player 4: 4 career games played. 5 career tackles.
Player 5: 67 career games played. 25 career catches. 192 receiving yards. 1 receiving TD.
Player 6. 38 career games played. 138 career carries. 676 career yards. 1 rushing TD.
Player 7. 16 career games played. 13 career tackles. 1 caused fumble
Player 8: 7 career games played. 95 career completions. 963 career yards. 3 career TDs. 5 career ints. 11 sacks
Let me know if you think all of these guys should be dumped.
Sorry Gipper...I am sure those are are all great players...we could list hundreds with similar numbers who totally sucked.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go.
Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead...
Sorry Gipper...I am sure those are are all great players...we could list hundreds with similar numbers who totally sucked.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go.
Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead...
My point on all the player stats I listed are that they are all young, unproven players who by no means should be given up on....including Quinn, and MoMass, and Robo etc. etc.
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Quinn's career stats: 7 games played. 6 starts. 93 of 171. 54.4% completion rate. 963 yards. 3 TDs. 1.8% TD%
5 Ints. 2.9% int. rate. 5.6 yds/att. 64.5 Rating
11 sacks. 6.0% sack rate.
Compare DA: 35 games played. 27 starts. 554 of 1035. 53.5% completion rate. 6701 yards. 45 TDs. 4.3% TD %
41 Ints. 4.0% Int.%. 6.5 yds/att. 71.7 Rating
42 sacks. 3.9% sack rate.
Look, who knows what could happen. Niether if these guys have had quality careers to date.
All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre...or the next Ryan Leaf. And I don't know either way. I say give him 20 games...same as was give Leaf, same as was given Charlie Frye, to find out.
So since Ryan Leaf was given 20 starts, the Browns should give Brady Quinn 20 starts to see if he's the next Ryan Leaf. Just great.
By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve.
So since Ryan Leaf was given 20 starts, the Browns should give Brady Quinn 20 starts to see if he's the next Ryan Leaf. Just great.
By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve.
Well, we should give him at least 20 starts to see if he is maybe not Favre, but perhaps the next Brian Sipe. Quinn certainly has a stronger arm on him than Sipe did.
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