Something Strange Is Happening
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Atenears, I agree on all counts.
The browns are right now close to a demolition/rebuild project. They only have some of the pillars in place toward being a good team. Those pillars are Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Rogers. Some of the other pieces of the foundation are strong enough to be used such as Rubin, DQ, Wimbley ?, Robo, MoMass.
The only thing we can do is to take enjoyment from watching the young players improve and seeing more pieces added to the foundation. It sucks being at the bottom but we will actually be able to watch the team being built in a way that will last.
I'm expecting improvement by the last four home games. And next year we should see significant improvement particularly if we can get better QB play. The following year we should be tough for anyone to beat.
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I agree Stan.
Savage was a flim flam man who was interested in self promotion over anything else.
The key for Mangini will be this years draft and free agent period.
Mangini had crap all over the board and we just haven't been able to compete in the match-ups except in a few areas.
Mangini's key player this year is Vienuke...that guy has to bill out as a solid player over the next year or two. Time will tell what happens there, and time will tell if he and Kokinis have a clue and continue to build a offensive line that gives us a chance to compete on offense or they follow in the flim flam, please the goofy ra-ra fans mold of the last several regimes and start bringing in "skill" players for the offense...To me, the real skill players are the linemen...I bet Joe Thomas would be a better runner than AP would be a LT.
The only move by Mangini I might question is Dabol, but even then, you can't tell much with him....it's like sending him to take the hill with troops armed with clubs against a force armed with shotguns. It's impossible to call plays when the line is blown up snap after snap.....you can't run trick play after trick play.
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I agree Stan.
Savage was a flim flam man who was interested in self promotion over anything else.
The key for Mangini will be this years draft and free agent period.
Mangini had crap all over the board and we just haven't been able to compete in the match-ups except in a few areas.
Mangini's key player this year is Vienuke...that guy has to bill out as a solid player over the next year or two. Time will tell what happens there, and time will tell if he and Kokinis have a clue and continue to build a offensive line that gives us a chance to compete on offense or they follow in the flim flam, please the goofy ra-ra fans mold of the last several regimes and start bringing in "skill" players for the offense...To me, the real skill players are the linemen...I bet Joe Thomas would be a better runner than AP would be a LT.
The only move by Mangini I might question is Dabol, but even then, you can't tell much with him....it's like sending him to take the hill with troops armed with clubs against a force armed with shotguns. It's impossible to call plays when the line is blown up snap after snap.....you can't run trick play after trick play.
The key for Mangini will be this years draft and free agent period.
who wants to come here? agents are telling their clients not to sign with us. how well do you expect us to do in free agency? we are a bad team who is cheap to boot. we may not get a single signing from someone who will start.
once a fan, always a fan. married to a steeler fan. aaaaaaaaah! --andy -
I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really don't understand the Mangini hate and the expectations here.
We got rid of head cases Winslow and Edwards, were you guys expecting a Pro Bowl TE & WR in exchange for two malcontents? Edwards was gone after this season anyway and Winslow doesn't even practice between games because his knees were so shot. Those were our "SUPER STARS" that Mangini inherited.
Most will admit that adding a QB to a shit team will just get the guy killed. Solidifying the O-line first is the right step. Adding Mack next to Steinbach & Thomas was a good fit.
We'll need receivers, and we have two rookies gaining experience at the position right now, and into a quarter way through this season.
I think Mangini is honestly trying to use Cribbs, without gassing him and diminishing the one thing we know the guy does best and that's his Special Team contribution.
Brady Quinn is helping us more by not playing him than playing him, with incentives kicking in making him un-tradable and unaffordable. Mangini and the current staff aren't responsible for these contracts that are remaining. Does anyone honestly feel that Quinn has just been sub-par in three years of meetings, QB camps, practices, preseason games and his first 5 games, but then is gonna take the league by storm with another chance? Have you EVER seen a QB who resembles a body-builder EVER take over this league ... any team?
On the defensive side of the ball, I think he under-estimated how bad the talent was here. But you can't fix everything in one season.
This Draft we have 11 picks that we can't get through this first year growing pain fast enough to get to.
Is the next coach that comes in going to take what we have here and reach the playoffs with them? Will he do better with the 11 draft picks than what Mangini will do? Or will he be another Crennel and not even play the draft picks?
We will see Quinn again, we will hopefully see the young receivers grow. Mack is getting gelled with the line. Cribbs will get a contract that fits both the team and himself. Next season we will add some defensive play makers and new blood at QB & RB.
You gotta believe we are working on things offensively, such as teaching the receivers how to read coverage and adjust on the fly, and we are basically bringing along two QB's in this department too, plus a new OC. This shit don't just come together over night. Set-backs are expected, bright spots should emerge. Ya gotta watch the second half of the season unfold, hoping we can stay healthy and learn to play through an entire season.
I'm just not sure what else Mangini can do, his pieces aren't on roster yet and he's trying to gain those pieces who he believes may be here for at the least the next three years, some experience.
This Mangini bashing is so similar to the Belichick bashing that took place here in the early 90's that it is mind-boggling that the local media and fans learned nothing from that fiasco. Let's face it guys, we no nothing about modern NFL coaching, or QB play .... nothing.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really don't understand the Mangini hate and the expectations here.
My only frustration is that I expected to see an occasional spark that would indicate there's some learning going on, and general gradual improvement. I've seen neither. After the first game of the season, I was asked how many games I thought the Browns would win this year. I said, "none." I was serious. So my expectations were extremely low and I've not been particularly surprised by the miserable showing.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
The key for Mangini will be this years draft and free agent period.
who wants to come here? agents are telling their clients not to sign with us. how well do you expect us to do in free agency? we are a bad team who is cheap to boot. we may not get a single signing from someone who will start.
who wants to come here? agents are telling their clients not to sign with us. how well do you expect us to do in free agency? we are a bad team who is cheap to boot. we may not get a single signing from someone who will start.
that is not absolutely true. In some ways the NFL free agency is like the farmers market where one needs to "haggle" and find the best deal. And even if we are the absolute worst team in NFL it sure beats playing in Arena football. We will find free agents, but we just need the negotiating acumen. This could be a growing pain with the GM/coach.
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i agree with you to some extent stan, but the real frustration lies beneath all that. for me, frustration with mangini starts with the draft. he had 3 2nd round picks and took not one, but TWO wide receivers: a move that had most people scratching their heads. he also passed on rey maluaga which i think we can all agree we missed out on. here is the biggie from the draft: he traded our prime pick for peanuts to the jets. he got his former crappy players who are useless here. he also continues to get worthless players from the jets and will probably waste the draft picks we got for the trades of our skill players.
but what does he do with those players he traded for? he doesn't even play them so that they can learn a few things. get those rookies in their so that THEY can get their ass's kicked and not our "veterans."
he came in here with this "legend" persona and he has been anything but so far. he has been horrible. the players hate him, nobody wants to listen to him and agents are telling their clients to stay away from the browns because of him. in short: he is the biggest a-hole in football. he has nothing to base this persona on and needs to realize he's not his mentor.
here is the biggest reason why people rate mangini: he handled the qb situation totally wrong. he said he would stick with one guy and he pulled brady after 2.5 games. i am not saying that brady didn't play bad, but he went against his word. since then, da has done NOTHING to deserve to be the starting qb yet he refuses to pull him. he is one of the most hypocritical people in the nfl today.
you're right stan, he needed to make the team the way he wanted it but the way he wants the team is terrible. he is setting us up for more consistent failure over the next 5 years. he has no idea how to motivate, talk to or even coach players. jim zorn thinks mangini is an idiot.
although it may not be mangini's fault that the players he inherited are no good, it is certainly his fault that they are still playing. although i am happy we got 11 draft picks this year, i am not too optimistic of how those picks will turn out.
i agree with you to some extent stan, but the real frustration lies beneath all that. for me, frustration with mangini starts with the draft. he had 3 2nd round picks and took not one, but TWO wide receivers: a move that had most people scratching their heads. he also passed on rey maluaga which i think we can all agree we missed out on. here is the biggie from the draft: he traded our prime pick for peanuts to the jets. he got his former crappy players who are useless here. he also continues to get worthless players from the jets and will probably waste the draft picks we got for the trades of our skill players.
but what does he do with those players he traded for? he doesn't even play them so that they can learn a few things. get those rookies in their so that THEY can get their ass's kicked and not our "veterans."
although it may not be mangini's fault that the players he inherited are no good, it is certainly his fault that they are still playing. although i am happy we got 11 draft picks this year, i am not too optimistic of how those picks will turn out.
The draft frustrates you loking back why?..they passed on sanchez?...i am very thrilled with the production of Mack...how about you? ...Two WR was a bit odd...but now it proves they knew Braylon was gone and most likely planned on trading him earlier if it werent for stallworths issues... now looking back thank goodness they did! And you go on to say he doesnt play the rookies..well mack has been strater from day 1 ..mass came on afer the first couple of games...now robiskie is working in...also maiva started (and looked awful) last week...veukene is the only one that has not seen the field...im not sure whats up with francies either...but he was a late rounder
its hard to beleive something will go right when they draft 11 new guys..also could we be playes in free agency a little?...something has to go right eventually...
hopefully berry or suh are available when we are on the clock...and then they turn elite and fast
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I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really don't understand the Mangini hate and the expectations here.
We got rid of head cases Winslow and Edwards, were you guys expecting a Pro Bowl TE & WR in exchange for two malcontents? Edwards was gone after this season anyway and Winslow doesn't even practice between games because his knees were so shot. Those were our "SUPER STARS" that Mangini inherited.
Most will admit that adding a QB to a shit team will just get the guy killed. Solidifying the O-line first is the right step. Adding Mack next to Steinbach & Thomas was a good fit.
We'll need receivers, and we have two rookies gaining experience at the position right now, and into a quarter way through this season.
I think Mangini is honestly trying to use Cribbs, without gassing him and diminishing the one thing we know the guy does best and that's his Special Team contribution.
Brady Quinn is helping us more by not playing him than playing him, with incentives kicking in making him un-tradable and unaffordable. Mangini and the current staff aren't responsible for these contracts that are remaining. Does anyone honestly feel that Quinn has just been sub-par in three years of meetings, QB camps, practices, preseason games and his first 5 games, but then is gonna take the league by storm with another chance? Have you EVER seen a QB who resembles a body-builder EVER take over this league ... any team?
On the defensive side of the ball, I think he under-estimated how bad the talent was here. But you can't fix everything in one season.
This Draft we have 11 picks that we can't get through this first year growing pain fast enough to get to.
Is the next coach that comes in going to take what we have here and reach the playoffs with them? Will he do better with the 11 draft picks than what Mangini will do? Or will he be another Crennel and not even play the draft picks?
We will see Quinn again, we will hopefully see the young receivers grow. Mack is getting gelled with the line. Cribbs will get a contract that fits both the team and himself. Next season we will add some defensive play makers and new blood at QB & RB.
You gotta believe we are working on things offensively, such as teaching the receivers how to read coverage and adjust on the fly, and we are basically bringing along two QB's in this department too, plus a new OC. This shit don't just come together over night. Set-backs are expected, bright spots should emerge. Ya gotta watch the second half of the season unfold, hoping we can stay healthy and learn to play through an entire season.
I'm just not sure what else Mangini can do, his pieces aren't on roster yet and he's trying to gain those pieces who he believes may be here for at the least the next three years, some experience.
This Mangini bashing is so similar to the Belichick bashing that took place here in the early 90's that it is mind-boggling that the local media and fans learned nothing from that fiasco. Let's face it guys, we no nothing about modern NFL coaching, or QB play .... nothing.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really don't understand the Mangini hate and the expectations here.
We got rid of head cases Winslow and Edwards, were you guys expecting a Pro Bowl TE & WR in exchange for two malcontents? Edwards was gone after this season anyway and Winslow doesn't even practice between games because his knees were so shot. Those were our "SUPER STARS" that Mangini inherited.
Most will admit that adding a QB to a shit team will just get the guy killed. Solidifying the O-line first is the right step. Adding Mack next to Steinbach & Thomas was a good fit.
We'll need receivers, and we have two rookies gaining experience at the position right now, and into a quarter way through this season.
I think Mangini is honestly trying to use Cribbs, without gassing him and diminishing the one thing we know the guy does best and that's his Special Team contribution.
Brady Quinn is helping us more by not playing him than playing him, with incentives kicking in making him un-tradable and unaffordable. Mangini and the current staff aren't responsible for these contracts that are remaining. Does anyone honestly feel that Quinn has just been sub-par in three years of meetings, QB camps, practices, preseason games and his first 5 games, but then is gonna take the league by storm with another chance? Have you EVER seen a QB who resembles a body-builder EVER take over this league ... any team?
On the defensive side of the ball, I think he under-estimated how bad the talent was here. But you can't fix everything in one season.
This Draft we have 11 picks that we can't get through this first year growing pain fast enough to get to.
Is the next coach that comes in going to take what we have here and reach the playoffs with them? Will he do better with the 11 draft picks than what Mangini will do? Or will he be another Crennel and not even play the draft picks?
We will see Quinn again, we will hopefully see the young receivers grow. Mack is getting gelled with the line. Cribbs will get a contract that fits both the team and himself. Next season we will add some defensive play makers and new blood at QB & RB.
You gotta believe we are working on things offensively, such as teaching the receivers how to read coverage and adjust on the fly, and we are basically bringing along two QB's in this department too, plus a new OC. This shit don't just come together over night. Set-backs are expected, bright spots should emerge. Ya gotta watch the second half of the season unfold, hoping we can stay healthy and learn to play through an entire season.
I'm just not sure what else Mangini can do, his pieces aren't on roster yet and he's trying to gain those pieces who he believes may be here for at the least the next three years, some experience.
This Mangini bashing is so similar to the Belichick bashing that took place here in the early 90's that it is mind-boggling that the local media and fans learned nothing from that fiasco. Let's face it guys, we no nothing about modern NFL coaching, or QB play .... nothing.
I missed the Mangini bashing in this thread. Personally, I'm not ready to give up on Mangini. Just because every idiot who writes an article or gets behind a microphone has jumped on the "Mangini sucks!" bandwagon, doesn't mean crap to me. Anyone who is bitching about Quinn not getting a fair chance, and wants to fire Mangini is a hypocrite. I would give Mangini 2 full seasons to do something positive. If we are 3 - 13 after the 2010 season.....let's fire his ass.
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I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really don't understand the Mangini hate and the expectations here.
My only frustration is that I expected to see an occasional spark that would indicate there's some learning going on, and general gradual improvement. I've seen neither. After the first game of the season, I was asked how many games I thought the Browns would win this year. I said, "none." I was serious. So my expectations were extremely low and I've not been particularly surprised by the miserable showing.
My only frustration is that I expected to see an occasional spark that would indicate there's some learning going on, and general gradual improvement. I've seen neither. After the first game of the season, I was asked how many games I thought the Browns would win this year. I said, "none." I was serious. So my expectations were extremely low and I've not been particularly surprised by the miserable showing.
We've exceeded your expectations ... we doubled Buffalo's score in that beat-down.
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Zombo said:
I can't imagine anyone ever thinking that ...Zombo
--But it is better than sounding like a vagina.
Oh, you mean like when someone whines, "It's too cold to go to a football game in early December"
(best read while pinching nose and talking in squeaky voice)
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Is it just me, or would anyone else at least feel better about the season if they went ahead and gave Cribbs the contract he deserves....
Check me out on Bleacher Report: 1st article, Still learning here. First Article -
No matter how much apathy i develop towards the Browns the hatred i have towards the Ravens will never go down. Am i evil ?
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No matter how much apathy i develop towards the Browns the hatred i have towards the Ravens will never go down. Am i evil ?
No matter how much apathy i develop towards the Browns the hatred i have towards the Ravens will never go down. Am i evil ?
Yes. And we love you for it!
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
The key for Mangini will be this years draft and free agent period.
who wants to come here? agents are telling their clients not to sign with us. how well do you expect us to do in free agency? we are a bad team who is cheap to boot. we may not get a single signing from someone who will start.
who wants to come here? agents are telling their clients not to sign with us. how well do you expect us to do in free agency? we are a bad team who is cheap to boot. we may not get a single signing from someone who will start.
So we have been told, but I agree to an extent....Cleveland has never been the garden spot on every free agents list of places they would like to play....since FA became a part of the game, Cleveland has always pretty much sucked, and the weather always has.
In the end, if the money is right and the opportunity is there, players will come here.
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Is it just me, or would anyone else at least feel better about the season if they went ahead and gave Cribbs the contract he deserves....
Is it just me, or would anyone else at least feel better about the season if they went ahead and gave Cribbs the contract he deserves....
why would they want to give us something to cheer about?
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Players like Terrel Owens, etc,
want to be in the big city limelight. That will always happen a lot...
it's the Yankees syndrome.
But, the players who love the GAME, and respect the coach and the history,
will come here.
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Is it just me, or would anyone else at least feel better about the season if they went ahead and gave Cribbs the contract he deserves....
Is it just me, or would anyone else at least feel better about the season if they went ahead and gave Cribbs the contract he deserves....
I'm mixed on this subject. Of all the dumb contracts we have structured this decade where the browns come out on the losing end often, this is one contract that was done well and favorable to the team/franchise ... yet it brings the team/franchise the most heat.
Cribbs was an undrafted free agent. I remember raising an eye-brow at the signing of the running QB from lowly Kent State, especially considering that he would become teammates with Frye, his across town college rival.
Finding a roster spot as a kick returner made Cribbs world. The kid was thrilled that the Browns showed interest in him and he made the team. He re-paid them with great effort and ability. They re-paid him and thrilled him beyond belief inking him to a longterm deal.
Now, this same deal is a blackeye, shortly into it's longness.
I'm still on the Browns side on this one. I believe they will pay him more to keep him happy, but I can understand Mangini not approving the upgrade until they could adequately find some other area he could contribute in besides returning kicks & punts. This is still undetermined, as should the bottomline of the upgraded contract should be.
Waiting to figure this out instead of paying him like Hester and asuming he would contribute offensively is one of the Browns better decisions of the new era.
He hasn't exactly been even decent as a WR (fumbled just last Sunday), we really don't have the personnel to compliment him in the WildDawg, he ain't going to play QB, he obviously didn't work out at Safety ... he's still a P/K returner with an asterisk ... an undrafted P/K returner with an asterisk.
Our best player? But what does that say/mean?
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Cribbs had just recieved a new very lucrative contract. he has don NOTHING to show he deserves more than the NICE contract he just recieved..Just another greedy nfl player who is jealous of the money someone else is making. If he did not like the NEW contract he just got..then he should not have signed it...he has no one to blame but himself..Shut up and play.
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@ peen "To me, the real skill players are the linemen...I bet Joe Thomas would be a better runner than AP would be a LT."
What??/
Anyway to the original poster D bone...I'm 41 and I tell you I lived in Cleveland 34 years, then moved to socal for two years and since been in Austin TX....last year was the first year I didn't buy the NFL ticket on Dtv....but went to a bar to watch every sunday or listened to it on the internet...this year? haven't even tried hard to find it on the internet or wasted $ to go watch it at a bar...and really? It isn't that bothersome. for the first time in my life I absolutely hate that we are again the laughing stock....I'll wear my Browns hat and people literally laugh at me....don't really care because it is a testament.... but they only thing we are considered.... is a joke! Just horrible football year in and year out....apathy does set in and really hard to comeback from....this coach is the antithesis of someone who motivates and instills trust in his players or the fans, who wants to run through a wall for a coach like this? NOBODY! he want to be diligent and deliberate and analyze....those words don't belong on a football field....Attack, swarm, "to quote LT go out there like a bunch of crazed dogs....I watch this team and can't find one player out there excited to play(save Cribbs)....I don't see ANYONE on D or O that is excited....I see a bunch padded guys going through the motions...deliberately, diligently and thinking rather than attacking....not the football I can even watch...it is beyond horrible....Texas High school football is more fun to watch.....don't even get me started with the Fking dumbass GM and draft strat of this crew(which means we get nothing but worse) i went without football from 96-99 and didn't watch it at all....(pro)....It 's getting to the point of pro basketball for me...unwatchable overpaid no respecting assholes...i just don't watch!
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Players like Terrel Owens, etc,
want to be in the big city limelight. That will always happen a lot...
it's the Yankees syndrome.
But, the players who love the GAME, and respect the coach and the history,
will come here.
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