Support for Mangini
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I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.
However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.
I'm still a Mangini apologist, but I can agree with this post. Good post, well said.
I just want to excuse all the so-called trouble, because a lot of it is whiney media posers acting like they have a personal vendetta. It's not even journalism, it's whining.
... and I will probably say this 80 times before Mangini is let go ... but this whole media rantings reminds me of the Belichick lynching of the early 90's.
I'm still a Mangini apologist, but I can agree with this post. Good post, well said.
I just want to excuse all the so-called trouble, because a lot of it is whiney media posers acting like they have a personal vendetta. It's not even journalism, it's whining.
... and I will probably say this 80 times before Mangini is let go ... but this whole media rantings reminds me of the Belichick lynching of the early 90's.
Yeah Stan, I remember "Metcalf up the middle" and Bernie's diminishing skills. Wrong on one, right on the other.
Oh, the Belichek lynching of the 90s was a tempest in a teapot compared to this. Now shall we discuss Anderson's "diminishing skills"? DA has the potential of a whale turd sitting on the bottom of the ocean, yet Mangini seems primed to give this POS yet another chance- and that would be to set the ALL TIME RECORD FOR WORST PASSER RATING IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!
When your team captain spouts off to the media, you'd better notice. When 95% of the national reporting is negative, you'd better notice. When your offensive (really offensive) coordinator is afraid to let a college quarterback try more than one pass out of the WildDawg, I sure notice.
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I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand -
What i see in Mangini is a man who is immature for his job. Perhaps he got propelled too quickly, saw success too quickly and failure also too quickly and he is not having enough time to grasp the entire situation - to understand his mistakes and to realize how to solve them. He needs more jobs as a coordinator before getting the head coach gig.
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I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
What would be YOUR reason for playing Quinn? Or, would you just not play him?
The QB 'debacle' has been going on here for three years with the same cast (ten years with similar cast). The only thing that has been a debacle is that none of these clowns seized the moment when given an opportunity.
Would a great QB not even look up-field to throw a forward pass, or throw off-target, throw too early, throw too late, time and time again?
Why exactly would Quinn deserve playing time other than to receive by some sort of default. It could be a default in that the other guy stunk up the joint, or by default since he was drafted so high, but never-the-less, it's the ONLY reason to play the third year rookie.
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I am curious to find out how many people actually like Mangini and understand the enormous task he has rebuilding this team. I hear nothing but trash about him from every media clown and internet drone and I can't seem to figure out the logic behind it. I hear a lot of people talking about blowing this team up and starting over and that is exactly what is happening right before our eyes. This is what it looks like. So, I'm creating a poll to gauge how many people secretly like what Mangini is doing and how many people are just pissed about our Browns and need someone to take the fall for it.
You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
I think Quinn is getting a chance for two reasons.
1) He hitched his horse to DA and it was catastrophic. Quinn wasn't moving the team and DA evolved into something worse. At this point, you can't defend DA anymore.
2) If Mangini is back or someone else is calling the shots, you really need to remove the "but he never got a chance" argument from the Quinn equation.
My favorite analyst is Pat Kirwan and when asked directly, PK doesn't feel like the QB of the future is currently on the roster. My opinion is the same.
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I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
Why exactly would Quinn deserve playing time other than to receive by some sort of default. It could be a default in that the other guy stunk up the joint, or by default since he was drafted so high, but never-the-less, it's the ONLY reason to play the third year rookie.
I don't think Brady has done much to win the job as much as DA has just been aweful and Brady has been a good sport. Because of that, I don't think any coach can justify keeping him on the bench when the guy in front of him has mounted 1 win and terrible numbers; regardless of the circumstances. Brady's ability isn't why he 's getting the nod, its a matter of principle and "integrity" at this point. Plus, we'll know how aggressive we need to be in the off-season as far as persuing a QB goes.
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really? aside from momas and mack, the other rookies have not gotten much of a chance. i remember robiski getting one catch, maybe two. maiva has played special teams and not much defense. veikune has been an absolute ghost. he is only playing two rookies and the others aren't getting much playing time. he needs to let them play so that they can learn something.
This is what worries me about Mangini. If he's calling the shots in the draft, he's been less than stellar. Yeah, Mack's been mighty good- he should be, if you draft a center in the first round. Gotten nothing out of Robo, he was supposed to be our JJ replacement. The rest of the guys he drafted have been pretty much invisible.
Really, I'm ambivalent about EM. Personally, I think he's totally screwed up the qb situation from the get-go. If we get Holmgren in and he can entice Chucky Gruden to coach the Browns, I sure won't shed a tear to see Mangini go. The team's been blown up so thoroughly, does it really matter who does the rebuilding?
If we get Holmgren in and he can entice Chucky Gruden to coach the Browns, I sure won't shed a tear to see Mangini go.
What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?
THE GOOD
1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8
1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8
2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4
2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions
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THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:
"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.
The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."
Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Marvin Lewis was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.
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If we get Holmgren in and he can entice Chucky Gruden to coach the Browns, I sure won't shed a tear to see Mangini go.
What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?
THE GOOD
1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8
1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8
2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4
2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions
______________________________________________________________________
THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:
"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.
The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."
Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Marvin Lewis was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.
What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?
THE GOOD
1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8
1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8
2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4
2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions
______________________________________________________________________
THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:
"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.
The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."
Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Mike Nolan was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.
Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.
Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.
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What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?
THE GOOD
1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8
1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8
2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4
2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions
______________________________________________________________________
THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:
"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.
The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."
Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Mike Nolan was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.
Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.
Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.
Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.
Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.
I would prefer to go 4-12 again if it means we're building a long-term contender. I'm sorry but 9-7 means nothing to me if its followed by a losing record. Take the time, build it right, and lets have a real franchise in Cleveland again.
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What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?
THE GOOD
1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8
1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8
2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4
2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions
______________________________________________________________________
THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:
"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.
The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."
Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Mike Nolan was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.
Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.
Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.
Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.
Yeah . . . so what exactly is your point? Why would you want to replace Mangini with a guy who's had no more recent success and, for the last 5 years, hasn't been able to field an above average offense when that is supposed to be his forte. You notice two of the last five years Gruden's teams WERE dead last?
Two points on Garcia: 1) he was there because Chuckie can't/will not develop a young QB; and 2) Dude, did you miss that Garcia was a Pro Bowl QB after leaving the Browns? Here's his passer rating for the last three years: 2008 90.4 2007 95 2006 96. We'd do back flips if Quinn approached that level of QB play. Hell, we might be 9-7.
Brian Griese, who Chucky benched Garcia for after one bad game (sound familiar) had a 69 passer rating last year. With the addition of Winslow, the Bucs have won one game this year without Garcia. I'm thinking he wasn't Chuckie's problem in TB. The guy's like 90 years old. He gave Gruden more than anyone could have expected in TB. Ironically, all that TB had going for it last year was two guys Butch Davis left on his roster and Opie cast off -- Garcia and Bryant. I think you are directing your anger at the wrong person. Look at the crap roster Mangini inherited and then go back and trace Opie's moves as GM.
Other than Thomas Opie did not draft one OL that plays anywhere in the NFL. After 5 drafts with the 3-4 in mind, we don't have the the personnel to run a 3-4 . . . I could go on for another 70 lines or so. People really expected that to be fixed in ONE OFFSEASON? An offseason where, coming in, the Browns had only 4 picks?
Did you stick your head in a hole in 2004 and just now come up for air? That would explain being hot for Gruden and saying that Garcia sucked.
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You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.
Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.
This team needs to build a winning organization. It needs a front office. Is Mangini the one to really build that? I don't think so. His hand-picked GM is gone already. It's pretty clear that he's alienated the team. While there's few players on this team whose performance gives them any business complaining, Lewis certainly included, I just think in general it's bad ot have a situation like this.
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