Ron Jaworski comments on the Browns
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I like Jaws and I respect his opinions.
Depending on the coach:
I've seen the Browns running the most rudimentary offense imaginable at the pro level because the head coach wanted to start simple and develop the playbook as the players were able to grasp it and execute.
I've seen the Browns throw in the occasional gadget play in an attempt to make the offense more "fun" and "interesting" for the players.
I've seen the Browns with a more complex playbook running around aimlessly on the field like a cat chasing a ball of yarn.
I think every possible combination has been tried.
The bottom line is you have to have disciplined players who are smart enough to understand the playbook and skilled enough to execute the plays. I believe this is where Mangini is trying to go. I also believe that one should have high expectations. It takes time for everything to come together but it all starts with having the right people. I like Mangini's philosophy as he's expressed it in the interviews I've read because I think it addresses all of these things. I hope he can make it work.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
I love how one guy can throw a thread so off track on this board.. One troll thread and you guys take it hook line and sinker..
Back to the Jaworski article..which is excellent by the way and I give it credibility because he has watched the film. He makes no mention of Daboll as the issue with playcalling. If you notice he DEFINITIVELY places the blame elswere and notes the reason for the lame playcalling...If you didn't catch this..you should read the article again.. It's the players and the exectution that are actually holding back the playcalling according to Jaws.. I am not in love with Daboll.. but our offensive problems are NOT about him..
I love how one guy can throw a thread so off track on this board.. One troll thread and you guys take it hook line and sinker..
Back to the Jaworski article..which is excellent by the way and I give it credibility because he has watched the film. He makes no mention of Daboll as the issue with playcalling. If you notice he DEFINITIVELY places the blame elswere and notes the reason for the lame playcalling...If you didn't catch this..you should read the article again.. It's the players and the exectution that are actually holding back the playcalling according to Jaws.. I am not in love with Daboll.. but our offensive problems are NOT about him..
You caught that huh? I was just letting some of the brown fans vent their frustration
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I love how one guy can throw a thread so off track on this board.. One troll thread and you guys take it hook line and sinker..
Back to the Jaworski article..which is excellent by the way and I give it credibility because he has watched the film. He makes no mention of Daboll as the issue with playcalling. If you notice he DEFINITIVELY places the blame elswere and notes the reason for the lame playcalling...If you didn't catch this..you should read the article again.. It's the players and the exectution that are actually holding back the playcalling according to Jaws.. I am not in love with Daboll.. but our offensive problems are NOT about him..
I love how one guy can throw a thread so off track on this board.. One troll thread and you guys take it hook line and sinker..
Back to the Jaworski article..which is excellent by the way and I give it credibility because he has watched the film. He makes no mention of Daboll as the issue with playcalling. If you notice he DEFINITIVELY places the blame elswere and notes the reason for the lame playcalling...If you didn't catch this..you should read the article again.. It's the players and the exectution that are actually holding back the playcalling according to Jaws.. I am not in love with Daboll.. but our offensive problems are NOT about him..
I haven't been a Daboll fan either, but I do agree that execution is key. These young receivers haven't yet learned to effectively adjust routes, etc. I have read that WR takes some time to really learn.
Mike
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berniesipe said:
Most brown fans don't know talent.No one has questioned his talent. Just that he's not as good as Brady or Manning and this year probably Rivers and Palmer. Let's put it this way, I think it would be a long shot for Ben to make the pro bowl from the AFC.
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What is with Steeler homos hanging out here all the time? At least some have some semblence of objectivity and brains but the new ones we keep getting are just stupid and lame.
Obviously this squeeler fan has man-love for BR.
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Any fan who does not recoginze that we are witnessing a player who will be remembered as the most intelligent tactician to play QB is missing out
P. Manning has a skillset that comes along once a generation......
Rarely do QB's dominate as he can
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What is with Steeler homos hanging out here all the time? At least some have some semblence of objectivity and brains but the new ones we keep getting are just stupid and lame.
Obviously this squeeler fan has man-love for BR.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any fan who does not recoginze that we are witnessing a player who will be remembered as the most intelligent tactician to play QB is missing out
P. Manning has a skillset that comes along once a generation......
Rarely do QB's dominate as he can
What is with Stain homos hanging out here all the time? At least some have some semblence of objectivity and brains but the new ones we keep getting are just stupid and lame.
Obviously this stain fan has man-love for BQ
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Any fan who does not recoginze that we are witnessing a player who will be remembered as the most intelligent tactician to play QB is missing out
B. Rothlesberger has a skillset that comes along once a generation......
Rarely do QB's dominate as he can
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You sir are an idiot.
Ever hear of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? Big gay Ben is maybe the 3rd best QB in the AFC...he might even be 4th behind Rivers, Manning and Brady.
Better than any of the QB's on our roster but certainly not the only QB who could improve the play of this team.
When you say "gay" you must have brady quinn on your mind. Big Ben is by far the best QB in the league and a future hall of famer.
berniesipe said:
When you say "gay" you must have brady quinn on your mind. Big Ben is by far the best QB in the league and a future hall of famer.There are pictures of Brady Quinn rubbing dude's crotches..Who is the browns's center? He must have nightmares about Quinn's hands under him. lol
Gaydar alert.. Quinn is in he house.
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Gruden was talking Quinn up. He recruited Quinn and talked about his work ethic, etc. Gruden said several times he thought Quinn had all the tools - himself - to be a great quarterback, but again, as Jaws said, nothing surrounding him. In the 3rd qtr. both Jaws and Gruden were saying Daboli should just let him air the ball out and see what happens. Keeping Quinn under wraps has done absolutely nothing. In a game like last night. it's already done, just let the new QB throw and get a feel for his capabilities. Even DA could hit SOMEONE every so often. Surely Quinn can hit guys more than DA.
Still bottom line, no one has the skill to get loose for Quinn to throw to. Furrey sucked last night and might as well be Braylon II dropping balls and looking spastic unless a ball was thrown directly on the numbers. The one time he did make a decent catch, had the field open in front of him, could have taken off and what happend ???........ he FELL down.
Daboli and Mangini ought to be ashamed of how they are holding back a talented kid like Quinn.
On a final note, completely agree with Jaws - no QB, regardless of how good he is, could do squat with the lack of time that pathetic offensive line gives the QB. The few times it appeared Quinn had a green light to throw somewhat down field, he had no time at all.
On a positive note - I liked the way Quinn started to realize he could'nt rely on the line and scrambled a few times right after the snap to try to make a throw rather than try to work in the pocket.
Daboli sucks and needs to be dropped yesterday !
The Lions will win this weekend and that will be nearly rock bottom.
Rock bottom will be Dec. 27 when we will get beat by Oakland.
Worst season of Cleveland Browns football ever.
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Gruden was talking Quinn up. He recruited Quinn and talked about his work ethic, etc. Gruden said several times he thought Quinn had all the tools - himself - to be a great quarterback, but again, as Jaws said, nothing surrounding him. In the 3rd qtr. both Jaws and Gruden were saying Daboli should just let him air the ball out and see what happens. Keeping Quinn under wraps has done absolutely nothing. In a game like last night. it's already done, just let the new QB throw and get a feel for his capabilities. Even DA could hit SOMEONE every so often. Surely Quinn can hit guys more than DA.
Still bottom line, no one has the skill to get loose for Quinn to throw to. Furrey sucked last night and might as well be Braylon II dropping balls and looking spastic unless a ball was thrown directly on the numbers. The one time he did make a decent catch, had the field open in front of him, could have taken off and what happend ???........ he FELL down.
Daboli and Mangini ought to be ashamed of how they are holding back a talented kid like Quinn.
On a final note, completely agree with Jaws - no QB, regardless of how good he is, could do squat with the lack of time that pathetic offensive line gives the QB. The few times it appeared Quinn had a green light to throw somewhat down field, he had no time at all.
On a positive note - I liked the way Quinn started to realize he could'nt rely on the line and scrambled a few times right after the snap to try to make a throw rather than try to work in the pocket.
Daboli sucks and needs to be dropped yesterday !
The Lions will win this weekend and that will be nearly rock bottom.
Rock bottom will be Dec. 27 when we will get beat by Oakland.
Worst season of Cleveland Browns football ever.
Gruden was talking Quinn up. He recruited Quinn and talked about his work ethic, etc. Gruden said several times he thought Quinn had all the tools - himself - to be a great quarterback, but again, as Jaws said, nothing surrounding him. In the 3rd qtr. both Jaws and Gruden were saying Daboli should just let him air the ball out and see what happens. Keeping Quinn under wraps has done absolutely nothing. In a game like last night. it's already done, just let the new QB throw and get a feel for his capabilities. Even DA could hit SOMEONE every so often. Surely Quinn can hit guys more than DA.
Still bottom line, no one has the skill to get loose for Quinn to throw to. Furrey sucked last night and might as well be Braylon II dropping balls and looking spastic unless a ball was thrown directly on the numbers. The one time he did make a decent catch, had the field open in front of him, could have taken off and what happend ???........ he FELL down.
Daboli and Mangini ought to be ashamed of how they are holding back a talented kid like Quinn.
On a final note, completely agree with Jaws - no QB, regardless of how good he is, could do squat with the lack of time that pathetic offensive line gives the QB. The few times it appeared Quinn had a green light to throw somewhat down field, he had no time at all.
On a positive note - I liked the way Quinn started to realize he could'nt rely on the line and scrambled a few times right after the snap to try to make a throw rather than try to work in the pocket.
Daboli sucks and needs to be dropped yesterday !
The Lions will win this weekend and that will be nearly rock bottom.
Rock bottom will be Dec. 27 when we will get beat by Oakland.
Worst season of Cleveland Browns football ever.
Those rollouts were designed.
I think that the most telling comment of the evening came from Steve Young. He said that Brady Quinn (paraphrasing) didn't show him enough of anything to make him think he might be good enough to play in the NFL. I guess that means there was not a shred of positive that you could take from his performance. It didn't highlight any talent that the kid might have and that's on Quinn.
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Gruden was talking Quinn up. He recruited Quinn and talked about his work ethic, etc. Gruden said several times he thought Quinn had all the tools - himself - to be a great quarterback, but again, as Jaws said, nothing surrounding him. In the 3rd qtr. both Jaws and Gruden were saying Daboli should just let him air the ball out and see what happens. Keeping Quinn under wraps has done absolutely nothing. In a game like last night. it's already done, just let the new QB throw and get a feel for his capabilities. Even DA could hit SOMEONE every so often. Surely Quinn can hit guys more than DA.
Still bottom line, no one has the skill to get loose for Quinn to throw to. Furrey sucked last night and might as well be Braylon II dropping balls and looking spastic unless a ball was thrown directly on the numbers. The one time he did make a decent catch, had the field open in front of him, could have taken off and what happend ???........ he FELL down.
Daboli and Mangini ought to be ashamed of how they are holding back a talented kid like Quinn.
On a final note, completely agree with Jaws - no QB, regardless of how good he is, could do squat with the lack of time that pathetic offensive line gives the QB. The few times it appeared Quinn had a green light to throw somewhat down field, he had no time at all.
On a positive note - I liked the way Quinn started to realize he could'nt rely on the line and scrambled a few times right after the snap to try to make a throw rather than try to work in the pocket.
Daboli sucks and needs to be dropped yesterday !
The Lions will win this weekend and that will be nearly rock bottom.
Rock bottom will be Dec. 27 when we will get beat by Oakland.
Worst season of Cleveland Browns football ever.
Those rollouts were designed.
I think that the most telling comment of the evening came from Steve Young. He said that Brady Quinn (paraphrasing) didn't show him enough of anything to make him think he might be good enough to play in the NFL. I guess that means there was not a shred of positive that you could take from his performance. It didn't highlight any talent that the kid might have and that's on Quinn.
Those rollouts were designed.
I think that the most telling comment of the evening came from Steve Young. He said that Brady Quinn (paraphrasing) didn't show him enough of anything to make him think he might be good enough to play in the NFL. I guess that means there was not a shred of positive that you could take from his performance. It didn't highlight any talent that the kid might have and that's on Quinn.
OUCH ! THAT really sucks.
Was Steve having concussion flashbacks or did he seem fairly cognizant ?
If he was 'In Touch', that really hurts.
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Those rollouts were designed.
I think that the most telling comment of the evening came from Steve Young. He said that Brady Quinn (paraphrasing) didn't show him enough of anything to make him think he might be good enough to play in the NFL. I guess that means there was not a shred of positive that you could take from his performance. It didn't highlight any talent that the kid might have and that's on Quinn.
OUCH ! THAT really sucks.
Was Steve having concussion flashbacks or did he seem fairly cognizant ?
If he was 'In Touch', that really hurts.
OUCH ! THAT really sucks.
Was Steve having concussion flashbacks or did he seem fairly cognizant ?
If he was 'In Touch', that really hurts.
I don't always agree with Young but I think when it comes to QB play...I can't really argue with what he was saying. Accuracy is one thing that is very hard to teach (if you believe that it can be done at all). On the last few throws, Quinn wasn't really under any pressure. He just wound up and fired it to the guy wearing the "X".
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Can't argue that. He did throw a few long no where near the receiver, but what else at this point do we have to work with. Just turn him loose for the remainder of the seaon.
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Can't argue that. He did throw a few long no where near the receiver, but what else at this point do we have to work with. Just turn him loose for the remainder of the seaon.
Can't argue that. He did throw a few long no where near the receiver, but what else at this point do we have to work with. Just turn him loose for the remainder of the seaon.
KF, I think you'll see him get nearly the rest of the season. If he plays well, then the whole 7 games. Otherwise, I'd expect to see Ratliff get a shot. He certainly couldn't be any worse.
I think that what we saw last night from Quinn was insulting. You may choose to blame him or the coaches or whoever but I think that it's a real indictment of a GM who spent the #22 overall pick on this guy. He shows NOTHING to suggest he warranted that pick. At this point, he's less of a QB than Vince Young (and that's saying something). If Quinn turns around and lights up the next three opponents then I will gladly retract the above but right now, his career is on life support. People around the league are watching.
As Quinn and DA both battle for the cellar of NFL QB rating, you're left wondering if any coaching staff could really win with this paucity of talent at the QB position.
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negative Earl.
what we saw last year from Quinn was an indictment of what he could do when he is surrounded by talent. Last year the only questions that were being asked was can he throw deep balls. This year he is being questioned on everything. Same for DA.
The fact that both QB's have no talent to help catch the balls thrown to them makes life much harder for these two and perhaps any QB who comes to our team. Perhaps we gravely underestimated the importance that KW2, JJ, Stallworth (cough) and BE bought to our team by not bringing in adequate reinforcements when they were let go.
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Can't argue that. He did throw a few long no where near the receiver, but what else at this point do we have to work with. Just turn him loose for the remainder of the seaon.
KF, I think you'll see him get nearly the rest of the season. If he plays well, then the whole 7 games. Otherwise, I'd expect to see Ratliff get a shot. He certainly couldn't be any worse.
I think that what we saw last night from Quinn was insulting. You may choose to blame him or the coaches or whoever but I think that it's a real indictment of a GM who spent the #22 overall pick on this guy. He shows NOTHING to suggest he warranted that pick. At this point, he's less of a QB than Vince Young (and that's saying something). If Quinn turns around and lights up the next three opponents then I will gladly retract the above but right now, his career is on life support. People around the league are watching.
As Quinn and DA both battle for the cellar of NFL QB rating, you're left wondering if any coaching staff could really win with this paucity of talent at the QB position.
I think that what we saw last night from Quinn was insulting. You may choose to blame him or the coaches or whoever but I think that it's a real indictment of a GM who spent the #22 overall pick on this guy. He shows NOTHING to suggest he warranted that pick. At this point, he's less of a QB than Vince Young (and that's saying something). If Quinn turns around and lights up the next three opponents then I will gladly retract the above but right now, his career is on life support. People around the league are watching.
I'm not going to bash Quinn, because that was a dreadful offensive performance all-around. But it was clear to me that the Baltimore corners were playing off the wides, taking away the vertical routes and keeping inside position, just daring Quinn to throw outside the hashes. These are guys that have been beaten over the top a lot this season. That's why the Browns tried so many bubble screens and two or three slants. Throwing them to Furrey was a waste. That only works if the receiver can slip the first tackle.
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