RUMOR: On Sportstalk Cleveland
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Another rumor, hunh? At least this one might be good news if it pans out.
We'll see.
Mike
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Formerly Stone said:
The talk outside of Cleveland is that Holmgren said thanks but no thanks. The problem is that 90% of what you hear in the NFL is flat out lies, but trust me, you would know if a gaggle of good people were interested in this job. Nobody is and it's because of Lerner's track record.Plain and simple?......a clean slate is a clean slate! Mangini could turn out to be the next Belichick but as of now, he is just a mark on the slate.
I think the fact is that it is just too early. Until the season is over we won't know who they are interested in really pursuing, or in who may be pursuing them. I guarantee you that the egos of some people will give them the itch to want to take this job. And Lerner's "track record" will have nothing to do with the decision. If a Billick, or Gruden, or Cowher, or Shanahan, or Holmgren, etc. etc. are interested in taking an NFL job, this one would be as appealing as any out there. A wealthy owner, a good fan base, a ton of draft picks, a great tradition etc. They would leap at the chance.
(But I do agree that 90% of what you hear is lies....or rumors).
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I don't know why it would have to be after the season ends.
It might make sense to bring the guy in ASAP.
Not so much to make changes this year, but as a way to evaluate existing coaches and players and to give the new hire a sense of if he can work with these people or not.
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I don't know why it would have to be after the season ends.
It might make sense to bring the guy in ASAP.
Not so much to make changes this year, but as a way to evaluate existing coaches and players and to give the new hire a sense of if he can work with these people or not.
I don't know why it would have to be after the season ends.
It might make sense to bring the guy in ASAP.
Not so much to make changes this year, but as a way to evaluate existing coaches and players and to give the new hire a sense of if he can work with these people or not.
and to get a good scouting department set up and start scouting the layers coming out in the draft.
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The real reason to wait until the season ends is simply to allow Mangini time. Lerner will not want to be seen as dumping a guy he just hired. He will wait things out until the end of the season. He will hire his Football Czar who will then be given free reign, assumably, to hire/fire whomever he wants, including the HC.
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I don't know why it would have to be after the season ends.
It might make sense to bring the guy in ASAP.
Not so much to make changes this year, but as a way to evaluate existing coaches and players and to give the new hire a sense of if he can work with these people or not.
and to get a good scouting department set up and start scouting the layers coming out in the draft.
and to get a good scouting department set up and start scouting the layers coming out in the draft.
He won't be able to do much with the scouting department now. Almost all of the games have been played except bowl games. He is almost completely dependent upon the system which was set up by Mangini and Kokinis. You might watch some bowl games with a different perspective but many of the sleepers won't be playing in bowl games. If the scouts have video clips of different players that might help him a lot.
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Dawgfanforever88 said:
we dont need someone to find talent mangini does that just fine(see NY Jets, and don't say that was tannenbaums doing hes a lawyer FFS) All Casserly will be doing is being the face of the organization and take some of the heat and work off Mangini's shoulders.when i say someone that finds talent.....maybe it's the wrong term.
i'm talking Steelers and Patriots... they KNOW who they want and they find players that work.
The steelers take rookies and undrafted players (Mewelde Moore, Mike Wallace) and turn them into solid players for their team.
The pats do the same. (Where did Welker come from? Cassell? Edeleman? They had a guy they signed last week playing on sunday night)
whatever it takes to get to THAT level... scouting, GM, coaching, whatever... that's what i want.
when i say someone that finds talent.....maybe it's the wrong term.
i'm talking Steelers and Patriots... they KNOW who they want and they find players that work.
The steelers take rookies and undrafted players (Mewelde Moore, Mike Wallace) and turn them into solid players for their team.
The pats do the same. (Where did Welker come from? Cassell? Edeleman? They had a guy they signed last week playing on sunday night)
whatever it takes to get to THAT level... scouting, GM, coaching, whatever... that's what i want.
don't give the Steelers too much credit for Mewelde Moore. He played for the Vikings for a few years first.
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Are we truly being honest with ourselves when we try and evaluate the quality of a GM by his draft picks. My point is this. It's a total crap shoot. And IMO, with kids coming out of college with only 2 or 3 years behind and the the lure of huge paydays has me to believe that this makes drafting all the harder.
A prime example is Crabtree. Sure he hasn't played yet I know that.. But the idiot held out, even gave thought to getting back into next years draft, only to sign for what was originally offered. This Crabtree isn't about playing he is about payday and IMO, that make drafting him all the more or a risk. These kids play hard for 2 - 4 years for a payday, get to the pro's and quit. 20 years ago, players came out of college and played, the lure of huge contracts was not there. Now all you have to do is be a marketable player in college and you can be handed a life changing sum of money that most of us could retire on for the rest of our life.
They can be great in college, yet today horrible standards of cutting large checks makes drafting better NFL players even harder.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I want a seasoned football guy who as our GM.
A prime example is Crabtree. Sure he hasn't played yet I know that..
Crabtree has played in, and I believe started, at least 3 or 4 games now.
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Formerly Stone said:
The talk outside of Cleveland is that Holmgren said thanks but no thanks. The problem is that 90% of what you hear in the NFL is flat out lies, but trust me, you would know if a gaggle of good people were interested in this job. Nobody is and it's because of Lerner's track record.Plain and simple?......a clean slate is a clean slate! Mangini could turn out to be the next Belichick but as of now, he is just a mark on the slate.
I think the fact is that it is just too early. Until the season is over we won't know who they are interested in really pursuing, or in who may be pursuing them. I guarantee you that the egos of some people will give them the itch to want to take this job. And Lerner's "track record" will have nothing to do with the decision. If a Billick, or Gruden, or Cowher, or Shanahan, or Holmgren, etc. etc. are interested in taking an NFL job, this one would be as appealing as any out there. A wealthy owner, a good fan base, a ton of draft picks, a great tradition etc. They would leap at the chance.
(But I do agree that 90% of what you hear is lies....or rumors).
I think the fact is that it is just too early. Until the season is over we won't know who they are interested in really pursuing, or in who may be pursuing them.
where'd you get that info? Everything I've been reading has been saying they want to get this Czar or Guru in before December, so they can evaluate Mangini.
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I think the fact is that it is just too early. Until the season is over we won't know who they are interested in really pursuing, or in who may be pursuing them.
where'd you get that info? Everything I've been reading has been saying they want to get this Czar or Guru in before December, so they can evaluate Mangini.
where'd you get that info? Everything I've been reading has been saying they want to get this Czar or Guru in before December, so they can evaluate Mangini.
Well, that may be true. What I guess I am saying is that Mangenious WILL coach out the season. If they do pick someone now, it would only be on a "consultancy" basis, to do, as you say "evaluation". They would have no authority to make moves probably until the end of the season. Then they will be hired "officially" as Director of Football Operations or whatever title Lerner wants to give the guy (assuming it is a guy....any women candidates?....I didn't think so)
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This is odd that we cant get any top performers for the job, is it that Mangini really sucks that bad with his management and people skills?
If so this is pitiful.
crap
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Here are Casserly's drafts in Houston. Though a subjective exercise, I've colored green the picks I've judged to be good ones, the bad ones red, and the the debatable ones black.
Ironically, his best draft came in '06, when he was already a dead man walking in Houston. After the hiring of Gary Kubiak as head coach, it was assumed that Casserly wouldn't survive long past the '06 draft; in fact, there's been some back & forth as to who actually decided to pass on Reggie Bush, taking Mario Williams instead.
But besides that draft, I don't see much positive from Casserly's time in Houston.
2002:
1 David Carr QB Fresno St.
2 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 Chester Pitts OG San Diego St.
3 Fred Weary OL Tennessee
3 Charles Hill DT Maryland
4 Jonathan Wells HB Ohio St.
5 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 Ramone Walker S Pittsburgh
6 DeMarcus Faggins CB Kansas St.
6 Howard Green DT LSU
7 Greg "Stylez" White DE Minnesota
7 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV
2003:
1 Andre Johnson WR Miami
2 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand OT NW Missouri St.
3 Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 Domanick Davis HB LSU
6 Drew Henson QB Michigan
6 Keith Wright DE Missouri
7 Curry Burns S Louisville
7 Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
2004:
1 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 Jason Babin DE W. Michigan
4 Glenn Earl S Notre Dame
6 Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame
6 Jammal Lord RB Nebraska
6 Charlie Anderson DE Ole Miss
7 Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
7 Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
2005:
1 Travis Johnson DT Florida St.
3 Vernand Morency HB Oklahoma St.
4 Jerome Mathis WR Hampton
5 Drew Hodgdon C Arizona St.
6 C.C. Brown S La. Lafayette
7 Kenneth Pettway OLB Grambling
2006:
1 Mario Williams DE NC State
2 DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
3 Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3 Eric Winston T Miami
4 Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6 Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7 David Anderson WR Colorado State
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where'd you get that info? Everything I've been reading has been saying they want to get this Czar or Guru in before December, so they can evaluate Mangini.
Well, that may be true. What I guess I am saying is that Mangenious WILL coach out the season. If they do pick someone now, it would only be on a "consultancy" basis, to do, as you say "evaluation". They would have no authority to make moves probably until the end of the season. Then they will be hired "officially" as Director of Football Operations or whatever title Lerner wants to give the guy (assuming it is a guy....any women candidates?....I didn't think so)
Well, that may be true. What I guess I am saying is that Mangenious WILL coach out the season. If they do pick someone now, it would only be on a "consultancy" basis, to do, as you say "evaluation". They would have no authority to make moves probably until the end of the season. Then they will be hired "officially" as Director of Football Operations or whatever title Lerner wants to give the guy (assuming it is a guy....any women candidates?....I didn't think so)
Nobody...at least I didn't say Mangini wouldn't finish out the season if someone is brought in now.
The positives of bringing the person on board ASAP....assuming it is the guy Lerner really wants...far outweigh waiting.
If Casserly as an example is the guy Lerner wants, bring him on now. It gives Mangini a fair shake in his eventual evaluation, and gives Casserly(again, assuming) a fair shake in giving him enough time to really evaluate the guy.
Everybody seems to assume Mangini is toast and he has zero chance of sticking. If Casserly decides to keep mangini, would it not be better for him to be able to make that announcement having actually worked with the guy a month or so during game conditions rather than walk in and make that announcement after 1-2 weeks on the job?
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Its interesting that everyone wants a "tried and tested" GM but in reality all they really want is good draft picks.
gets to my point............How is Bernie Kosar not qualified to pick Clay Mathews/Maclin /Rey Rey.
Kosar has the fans trust and unlike any coach brought in he will be here in 10 years.
Bitchin you have no talent is ludicrous......Mangini traded easily your best two playmakers on offense..........for what ..a bag of coal and a few jets players.
Tell me Bernie couldnt have got more than that.
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Bernie wasn't coaching the jets.
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Its interesting that everyone wants a "tried and tested" GM but in reality all they really want is good draft picks.
gets to my point............How is Bernie Kosar not qualified to pick Clay Mathews/Maclin /Rey Rey.
Picking players is a fairly small role in a GM's overall responsibility. Communication and the ability to forecast are just as important.
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Here are Casserly's drafts in Houston. Though a subjective exercise, I've colored green the picks I've judged to be good ones, the bad ones red, and the the debatable ones black.
Ironically, his best draft came in '06, when he was already a dead man walking in Houston. After the hiring of Gary Kubiak as head coach, it was assumed that Casserly wouldn't survive long past the '06 draft; in fact, there's been some back & forth as to who actually decided to pass on Reggie Bush, taking Mario Williams instead.
But besides that draft, I don't see much positive from Casserly's time in Houston.
2002:
1 David Carr QB Fresno St.
2 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 Chester Pitts OG San Diego St.
3 Fred Weary OL Tennessee
3 Charles Hill DT Maryland
4 Jonathan Wells HB Ohio St.
5 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 Ramone Walker S Pittsburgh
6 DeMarcus Faggins CB Kansas St.
6 Howard Green DT LSU
7 Greg "Stylez" White DE Minnesota
7 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV
2003:
1 Andre Johnson WR Miami
2 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand OT NW Missouri St.
3 Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 Domanick Davis HB LSU
6 Drew Henson QB Michigan
6 Keith Wright DE Missouri
7 Curry Burns S Louisville
7 Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
2004:
1 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 Jason Babin DE W. Michigan
4 Glenn Earl S Notre Dame
6 Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame
6 Jammal Lord RB Nebraska
6 Charlie Anderson DE Ole Miss
7 Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
7 Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
2005:
1 Travis Johnson DT Florida St.
3 Vernand Morency HB Oklahoma St.
4 Jerome Mathis WR Hampton
5 Drew Hodgdon C Arizona St.
6 C.C. Brown S La. Lafayette
7 Kenneth Pettway OLB Grambling
2006:
1 Mario Williams DE NC State
2 DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
3 Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3 Eric Winston T Miami
4 Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6 Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7 David Anderson WR Colorado State
Here are Casserly's drafts in Houston. Though a subjective exercise, I've colored green the picks I've judged to be good ones, the bad ones red, and the the debatable ones black.
Ironically, his best draft came in '06, when he was already a dead man walking in Houston. After the hiring of Gary Kubiak as head coach, it was assumed that Casserly wouldn't survive long past the '06 draft; in fact, there's been some back & forth as to who actually decided to pass on Reggie Bush, taking Mario Williams instead.
But besides that draft, I don't see much positive from Casserly's time in Houston.
2002:
1 David Carr QB Fresno St.
2 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 Chester Pitts OG San Diego St.
3 Fred Weary OL Tennessee
3 Charles Hill DT Maryland
4 Jonathan Wells HB Ohio St.
5 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 Ramone Walker S Pittsburgh
6 DeMarcus Faggins CB Kansas St.
6 Howard Green DT LSU
7 Greg "Stylez" White DE Minnesota
7 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV
2003:
1 Andre Johnson WR Miami
2 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand OT NW Missouri St.
3 Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 Domanick Davis HB LSU
6 Drew Henson QB Michigan
6 Keith Wright DE Missouri
7 Curry Burns S Louisville
7 Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
2004:
1 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 Jason Babin DE W. Michigan
4 Glenn Earl S Notre Dame
6 Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame
6 Jammal Lord RB Nebraska
6 Charlie Anderson DE Ole Miss
7 Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
7 Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
2005:
1 Travis Johnson DT Florida St.
3 Vernand Morency HB Oklahoma St.
4 Jerome Mathis WR Hampton
5 Drew Hodgdon C Arizona St.
6 C.C. Brown S La. Lafayette
7 Kenneth Pettway OLB Grambling
2006:
1 Mario Williams DE NC State
2 DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
3 Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3 Eric Winston T Miami
4 Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6 Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7 David Anderson WR Colorado State
God dmn.....that's a fkin dream compared to our draft history since 99'
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This is odd that we cant get any top performers for the job, is it that Mangini really sucks that bad with his management and people skills?
If so this is pitiful.
crap
This is odd that we cant get any top performers for the job, is it that Mangini really sucks that bad with his management and people skills?
If so this is pitiful.
crap
If any perspective GM reads this board he would be afraid to take the job. The most likely GM is someone who feels the reward of getting a GM job is worth the risk. There are only two guys in football that I would hand all of the keys over and say "It's your car, turn us into a winner" These two are BB and Parcells
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