Peter King on the Browns
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Meaning an idiot? I think you'd be surprised...and I'm not guessing.
Actually, I might cross paths with Peter King over the holidays. His brother is a friend of ours and we are going to an 'Open House' there.
I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
Not to belabor a point, Earl, but I doubt he is respected or liked.
Just my opinion and nothing to prove or not.
Actually, I might cross paths with Peter King over the holidays. His brother is a friend of ours and we are going to an 'Open House' there.
I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
Not to belabor a point, Earl, but I doubt he is respected or liked.
Just my opinion and nothing to prove or not.
Mangini was well respected as an asst in New England, fact. Mangini (remember Mangenious?) was well respected in New York as a Head Coach, fact. Now that he is here in Cleveland, he is not respected or liked? By whom? Oh, the East Coast media and JoeSixPat and Patriots fans and Jets fans and Mike Florio at PFT, all of whom are tossing and turning like psychos at the thought of the possibility Mangini could be successful here. And I'm not even throwing Grossi and McManamon into the conversation as they are in the tank with the rest of this miserable lot. Sorry, JMO, but I could care less what anyone in the media including Peter King has to say about Mangini, and the possibility of Mangini making them all sick to their stomachs by making it happen here only will make it that much better.
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I think it's funny that the media is calling for Mangini's head but did any of the media expect this team to win more than 4 games? NO.
Not many people outside of the Browns fanbase have watched the games I'm willing to bet and they don't see this team fight every game for Mangini like we do.
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Dawgfanforever88 said:
Moore was signed to the practice squad on nov the 9th Kokinis was fired on the 2nd does not compute.Kokinis knew Evan Moore b4 from Baltimore scouting.
Shapiro wanted Sizemore long before he was able to get him.
compute now.
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I was also telling people on this board that we needed to be patient and give Mangini at least 3 years to prove his worth. However, I have always maintained that hiring the coach before the GM was a bad idea and that Mangini has made his fair share of mistakes this season. And that's OK as long as thy learn from their mistakes and improve. But Mangini came really close to making too many mistakes IMO - and so many could have been easily avoided.
Much like the expressed views in this post, I am really uncomfortable with this Czar thing and the canidates asking for total control and authority. We all know that this doesn't work in the real world and it could result in another costly rebuilding exercise. If I were Lerner, I am looking for someone willing to be a leader, and also a part of the team, with Lerner and Mangini. Yes, I expect him to be and act like he's running the show. But he needs to be on board with the misson statement that Mangini was hired to develop and implement. If he is, there would be no reason fof Mangini to feel threatened and the three of them could work together to make their vision happen.
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Dawgfanforever88 said:
Moore was signed to the practice squad on nov the 9th Kokinis was fired on the 2nd does not compute.Kokinis knew Evan Moore b4 from Baltimore scouting.
Shapiro wanted Sizemore long before he was able to get him.
compute now.
Kokinis knew Evan Moore b4 from Baltimore scouting.
Shapiro wanted Sizemore long before he was able to get him.
compute now.
Lol does not mean he was there to sign him which he wasnt....your shapiro analogy holds no water because he wasnt fired before he signed sizemore. still not computing
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I just don't know about any of these reporters when it comes to this regime. The Browns don't let much leak out anymore and the media fires back by spewing anything they can to discredit Mangini and the rest of the organization. The whole having a 'czar' control the organization seems like more media bs than reality. Holmgren wasn't a god in Seattle, if he was, they'd never let him go, no matter what amount of money he wanted. The fact that they are letting him check out other places tells me more than the media ever could.
I have many questions about this whole GM scenario:
1. If Mangini is starting to pull this ship to the surface, why would any of us (including Lerner) want someone coming in and doing another housecleaning? This seems to be the way the Media is portraying all candidates for the job.
2. If a new GM comes in, keeps the coach and staff and lets Mangini decide the roster, then what is the GM really doing? Player contracts? Scouting? I guess that's fine as long as Mangini still has final say. If not, we're looking at another Savage/Crennel situation. Who wants that?
3. Why is another body necessary? Just so we can say we have a GM? Holgrem, Shanahan, Parcells, they all ran the organization from top to bottom without a true GM. They had their scouting departments, their contract departments, their marketing, merchandizing, and whatever other departments were necessary to run the organization, but in order to get the team to be winners, they made the command roster decisions.
A good coach knows what type of players he needs to form a solid team. If he's wrong, he's the fall guy, if he's right, he's the savior. I hope Mangini is the latter, and he's shown that since the Kokinis firing, that he's putting a product on the field with his type of guys, and we're competing. I may stand alone on this but if bringing in a head guy to force players down the coaches throat sounds like a good idea to you, please root for Pittsburgh.
-db
I have many questions about this whole GM scenario:
...
3. Why is another body necessary? Just so we can say we have a GM? Holgrem, Shanahan, Parcells, they all ran the organization from top to bottom without a true GM. They had their scouting departments, their contract departments, their marketing, merchandizing, and whatever other departments were necessary to run the organization, but in order to get the team to be winners, they made the command roster decisions.
-db
My feeling is that the franchise needs a voice so the head coach doesn't feel so much like he's out on a limb with the media and fans sawing the limb off behind him. I also think that Randy Lerner really WANTS success with the Browns but hasn't been able to find the formula. My guess is he's bringing in someone knowledgeable about the NFL and football to help set things right. Whether Homgren takes the job or not, he should be able to give Lerner some feedback on the state of the franchise. I don't think Lerner understands the game well enough to decide things like, "Is the OC competent or should we find someone else?" He needs someone other than the head coach to help him sift through these issues. I also think the team needs a GM to manage personnel acquisitions, contracts, salary cap, etc. so the coach can concentrate on coaching. This franchise is in a state that requires more than just a head coach to address all the problems.
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I think it's funny that the media is calling for Mangini's head but did any of the media expect this team to win more than 4 games? NO.
Not many people outside of the Browns fanbase have watched the games I'm willing to bet and they don't see this team fight every game for Mangini like we do.
I think it's funny that the media is calling for Mangini's head but did any of the media expect this team to win more than 4 games? NO.
Not many people outside of the Browns fanbase have watched the games I'm willing to bet and they don't see this team fight every game for Mangini like we do.
Funny how Todd Haley, Schwarz, Raheem Morris, Spagnuolo and Tom Cable get passes.
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Kokinis knew Evan Moore b4 from Baltimore scouting.
Shapiro wanted Sizemore long before he was able to get him.
compute now.
Lol does not mean he was there to sign him which he wasnt....your shapiro analogy holds no water because he wasnt fired before he signed sizemore. still not computing
Dawgfanforever88 said:
Lol does not mean he was there to sign him which he wasnt....your shapiro analogy holds no water because he wasnt fired before he signed sizemore. still not computingkokinis made a list of players (one of the few things he did) call bernie and ask him.
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Dawgfanforever88 said:
Lol does not mean he was there to sign him which he wasnt....your shapiro analogy holds no water because he wasnt fired before he signed sizemore. still not computingkokinis made a list of players (one of the few things he did) call bernie and ask him.
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Meaning an idiot? I think you'd be surprised...and I'm not guessing.
Actually, I might cross paths with Peter King over the holidays. His brother is a friend of ours and we are going to an 'Open House' there.
I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
Not to belabor a point, Earl, but I doubt he is respected or liked.
Just my opinion and nothing to prove or not.
I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
A better question might be to ask PK WHY Mangini has drawn the ire of the media. Belichick is the last coach I can remember that was this piled on.
Says something to me that so many ex Jets voluntarily came to the same camp where he bused our rookies.
Also ask him WHO drew the $1,700 fine. I've heard it was BE. I can only speculate that this hasn't been widely reported because if we knew the who and background people would side with Mangini.
Tom Cable beats up coaches and women, Andy Reid's sons run a drug operation out of his house and the media goes nuts because BE . . . the BE who is sending $10,000 bottles of champagne to Rihanna at night clubs (in between punching out middle schoolers and pulling all night benders with Stallworth) . . . is fined $1,700.00 for repeatedly acting like the rules don't apply to him. Hmmm.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seah...vekelley18.html
Holmgren may decide this weekend, Seattle reporter making last ditch plea to Seattle's owner to quickly hire Holmgren.
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I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
A better question might be to ask PK WHY Mangini has drawn the ire of the media. Belichick is the last coach I can remember that was this piled on.
Says something to me that so many ex Jets voluntarily came to the same camp where he bused our rookies.
Also ask him WHO drew the $1,700 fine. I've heard it was BE. I can only speculate that this hasn't been widely reported because if we knew the who and background people would side with Mangini.
Tom Cable beats up coaches and women, Andy Reid's sons run a drug operation out of his house and the media goes nuts because BE . . . the BE who is sending $10,000 bottles of champagne to Rihanna at night clubs (in between punching out middle schoolers and pulling all night benders with Stallworth) . . . is fined $1,700.00 for repeatedly acting like the rules don't apply to him. Hmmm.
A better question might be to ask PK WHY Mangini has drawn the ire of the media. Belichick is the last coach I can remember that was this piled on.
Says something to me that so many ex Jets voluntarily came to the same camp where he bused our rookies.
Also ask him WHO drew the $1,700 fine. I've heard it was BE. I can only speculate that this hasn't been widely reported because if we knew the who and background people would side with Mangini.
Tom Cable beats up coaches and women, Andy Reid's sons run a drug operation out of his house and the media goes nuts because BE . . . the BE who is sending $10,000 bottles of champagne to Rihanna at night clubs (in between punching out middle schoolers and pulling all night benders with Stallworth) . . . is fined $1,700.00 for repeatedly acting like the rules don't apply to him. Hmmm.
Mangini said in his CBS interview with James Brown that "it may seem excessive to the outside observer" but that this was not the first transgression involving this player. What the hell is wrong with people? If you get caught speeding in Montana and you have to pay $10....you'd say "Here's a $50...I'm passing through". This was (to quote Sheriff Buford T. Justice) "an attention-getter".
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I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
A better question might be to ask PK WHY Mangini has drawn the ire of the media. Belichick is the last coach I can remember that was this piled on.
Says something to me that so many ex Jets voluntarily came to the same camp where he bused our rookies.
Also ask him WHO drew the $1,700 fine. I've heard it was BE. I can only speculate that this hasn't been widely reported because if we knew the who and background people would side with Mangini.
Tom Cable beats up coaches and women, Andy Reid's sons run a drug operation out of his house and the media goes nuts because BE . . . the BE who is sending $10,000 bottles of champagne to Rihanna at night clubs (in between punching out middle schoolers and pulling all night benders with Stallworth) . . . is fined $1,700.00 for repeatedly acting like the rules don't apply to him. Hmmm.
A better question might be to ask PK WHY Mangini has drawn the ire of the media. Belichick is the last coach I can remember that was this piled on.
Says something to me that so many ex Jets voluntarily came to the same camp where he bused our rookies.
Also ask him WHO drew the $1,700 fine. I've heard it was BE. I can only speculate that this hasn't been widely reported because if we knew the who and background people would side with Mangini.
Tom Cable beats up coaches and women, Andy Reid's sons run a drug operation out of his house and the media goes nuts because BE . . . the BE who is sending $10,000 bottles of champagne to Rihanna at night clubs (in between punching out middle schoolers and pulling all night benders with Stallworth) . . . is fined $1,700.00 for repeatedly acting like the rules don't apply to him. Hmmm.
Ring up unauthorized charges on your company card, can you do it after a warning from your boss 50 more times before the boss takes some action..well.. Seems to be a lot less bitching from un named sources since the disappearance of Lewis and Edwards from Berea.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seah...vekelley18.html
Holmgren may decide this weekend, Seattle reporter making last ditch plea to Seattle's owner to quickly hire Holmgren.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seah...vekelley18.html
Holmgren may decide this weekend, Seattle reporter making last ditch plea to Seattle's owner to quickly hire Holmgren.
I'm betting on the Cleveland as bait theory.
Same as when Art left.
When that happened the rest of the league hustled to bribe the owners into staying.
WSS
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Actually, I might cross paths with Peter King over the holidays. His brother is a friend of ours and we are going to an 'Open House' there.
I might ask PK - off the record - what Mangini's reputation is around the league.
Not to belabor a point, Earl, but I doubt he is respected or liked.
Just my opinion and nothing to prove or not.
Mangini was well respected as an asst in New England, fact. Mangini (remember Mangenious?) was well respected in New York as a Head Coach, fact. Now that he is here in Cleveland, he is not respected or liked? By whom? Oh, the East Coast media and JoeSixPat and Patriots fans and Jets fans and Mike Florio at PFT, all of whom are tossing and turning like psychos at the thought of the possibility Mangini could be successful here. And I'm not even throwing Grossi and McManamon into the conversation as they are in the tank with the rest of this miserable lot. Sorry, JMO, but I could care less what anyone in the media including Peter King has to say about Mangini, and the possibility of Mangini making them all sick to their stomachs by making it happen here only will make it that much better.
Sorry, JMO, but I could care less what anyone in the media including Peter King has to say about Mangini, and the possibility of Mangini making them all sick to their stomachs by making it happen here only will make it that much better.
I agree with this. I have liked Mangini's approach from day 1. Add a few studs onto this team and it will look much better. Dabol has really done a nice job since the bye week. Part of this team's future identity is a team that will run the ball down your throats if you dare them to. I think some of that is the reason for run, run, pass at times.
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Go back to Day One and I've been a big Mangini suppporter..Even at the seasons beginning when I was getting ripped every day..I'm no smarter then anyone on this board trust me, but the one thing I did know that this was going to be a tough year..
Too many bad character guys on this team, too many over paid underachieving, undiscipline, with an over sense of privledge..WTF did anyone think had to be done..Did you not watch the team last year?
Parcells was 1 and 11 his first year in NE
the following year he was 3-7 before they strung 6 in a row,then played ironicly the Browns
Took Parcells a couple of years but Mangini gets 13 games..f**k that
Honestly i thought mankok took way to long to deal with edwards they did it right with smith and winslow but this team still has to many non factor underachievers on both sides of the ball ,many of them "mangini guys" i would like to see mangini get a chance to right the ship ,but he needs to realize that he may need to adjust some things offensively and lose daboll in "the process"...i like the WCO holmgren would bring and many of the players we have would be suited to it as well..
Honestly i thought mankok took way to long to deal with edwards they did it right with smith and winslow but this team still has to many non factor underachievers on both sides of the ball ,many of them "mangini guys" i would like to see mangini get a chance to right the ship ,but he needs to realize that he may need to adjust some things offensively and lose daboll in "the process"...i like the WCO holmgren would bring and many of the players we have would be suited to it as well..
In fairness, it's tough to blame our Head Coach over the NY Giants' inability to decide whether they felt Edwards was worth it or not. Therefore, Edwards would end up going to the most desperate passing game east of Cleveland but also in the media capital of NY. Perhaps the reason WHY the Giants labored while the Jets knee-jerked is that in spite of adding Edwards to a 3-1 team, they gave up 2 draft picks and 2 players that can rotate in wioth our starting lineup. The ONLY question I have is did the NY air stop Braylon from dropping footballs? Hail no! It's not like people were lining up with inquiries about the disinterested WR.
I know a TON of people keep defaulting to ALL our offensive problems are because of the OC. That said, none of them seem to understand we have 9 new starters in this offense today. Many are inexperienced. But if it makes ANYONE feel better Jon Gruden knows the West Coast Offense and he was so wonderful with it he didn't need any talent to KEEP his job in Tampa Bay. Oooop, he got fired. Is this where we give him the excuses we CAN'T give a rokie OC here?
Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it. On the flip-side - did anyone see the fellers scoirn TDs for Tampa on SB Sunday? 4 of them came from Monte Kiffen's defense not to be confused with Gruden's West Coast offense.
To perfect the West Coast, it sure helps to have Jerry Rice, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, and the other stud they had playing. Let's stop pretending Quinn and DA were the equivalent to the perfect WCO QBs SF had. Jamal wasn't exactly Roger Craig out of the backfield and FBs that consistently drop passes won't ever be confused with Tom Rathman. In the end, it always better to play chess with more than just pawns. RECENT weeks in Cleveland show me we look better Evan Moore at TE, Cribbs rushing the football more and Jennings too for that matter. If our offense is turning the ball over alot less frequently in the last 3 weeks and there's FAR less 1st and 15s or 1st and 20s - doesn't that refelect IMPROVED coaching? It seems like in ALL areas we CAN be better in - we ARE better in. That's progress IMO.
If a Head Coaching change is inevitable (as much as I'd had more incontinuity), I'd prefer Steve Marriucci over Gruden. Gruden is the most OVERRATED Head Coach I've ever seen. Nobody played for his ass last year and most his team thought he was a jerk. In Tampa they won with a lights out defense he INHERITED so by the time that team became all his - we were coin flipping them for the Joe Thomas Sweepstakes. They're still feeling the wrath of Gruden's choices as we speak.
- Tom F. (Keep Mangini and add the X-factors he needs to be successful)
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Honestly i thought mankok took way to long to deal with edwards they did it right with smith and winslow but this team still has to many non factor underachievers on both sides of the ball ,many of them "mangini guys" i would like to see mangini get a chance to right the ship ,but he needs to realize that he may need to adjust some things offensively and lose daboll in "the process"...i like the WCO holmgren would bring and many of the players we have would be suited to it as well..
In fairness, it's tough to blame our Head Coach over the NY Giants' inability to decide whether they felt Edwards was worth it or not. Therefore, Edwards would end up going to the most desperate passing game east of Cleveland but also in the media capital of NY. Perhaps the reason WHY the Giants labored while the Jets knee-jerked is that in spite of adding Edwards to a 3-1 team, they gave up 2 draft picks and 2 players that can rotate in wioth our starting lineup. The ONLY question I have is did the NY air stop Braylon from dropping footballs? Hail no! It's not like people were lining up with inquiries about the disinterested WR.
I know a TON of people keep defaulting to ALL our offensive problems are because of the OC. That said, none of them seem to understand we have 9 new starters in this offense today. Many are inexperienced. But if it makes ANYONE feel better Jon Gruden knows the West Coast Offense and he was so wonderful with it he didn't need any talent to KEEP his job in Tampa Bay. Oooop, he got fired. Is this where we give him the excuses we CAN'T give a rokie OC here?
Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it. On the flip-side - did anyone see the fellers scoirn TDs for Tampa on SB Sunday? 4 of them came from Monte Kiffen's defense not to be confused with Gruden's West Coast offense.
To perfect the West Coast, it sure helps to have Jerry Rice, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, and the other stud they had playing. Let's stop pretending Quinn and DA were the equivalent to the perfect WCO QBs SF had. Jamal wasn't exactly Roger Craig out of the backfield and FBs that consistently drop passes won't ever be confused with Tom Rathman. In the end, it always better to play chess with more than just pawns. RECENT weeks in Cleveland show me we look better Evan Moore at TE, Cribbs rushing the football more and Jennings too for that matter. If our offense is turning the ball over alot less frequently in the last 3 weeks and there's FAR less 1st and 15s or 1st and 20s - doesn't that refelect IMPROVED coaching? It seems like in ALL areas we CAN be better in - we ARE better in. That's progress IMO.
If a Head Coaching change is inevitable (as much as I'd had more incontinuity), I'd prefer Steve Marriucci over Gruden. Gruden is the most OVERRATED Head Coach I've ever seen. Nobody played for his ass last year and most his team thought he was a jerk. In Tampa they won with a lights out defense he INHERITED so by the time that team became all his - we were coin flipping them for the Joe Thomas Sweepstakes. They're still feeling the wrath of Gruden's choices as we speak.
- Tom F. (Keep Mangini and add the X-factors he needs to be successful)
Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it.
Gruden took over a Raiders team that had gone 4-12 the previous year. He immediately coached them up to an 8-8 season, then made it to the AFC Championship Game during his third year.
Is there really any doubt that he turned that team around? Sure, they made it to the SB the year after he left, but how successful have they been since then?
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Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it.
Gruden took over a Raiders team that had gone 4-12 the previous year. He immediately coached them up to an 8-8 season, then made it to the AFC Championship Game during his third year.
Is there really any doubt that he turned that team around? Sure, they made it to the SB the year after he left, but how successful have they been since then?
Gruden took over a Raiders team that had gone 4-12 the previous year. He immediately coached them up to an 8-8 season, then made it to the AFC Championship Game during his third year.
Is there really any doubt that he turned that team around? Sure, they made it to the SB the year after he left, but how successful have they been since then?
How long ago did we coin flip the TB Bucs for the 3rd overall draft pick? And today, the Bucs are still feeling the wraths of Gruden's planning skills. If we compare Mangini's record from 2006-2008, what's your rationale for Gruden over Mangini?
Maybe you're right that he was there when the Raiders went from 4-12 to playoffs. That said, why doesn't anyone ever question why that SAME franchise made their first Superbowl the first year of his absence? And to be honest, if you go back and look at the SB the Bucs won - their defense (Gruden knew little about) was managed by Monte Kiffin and they outscored their OWN WCO offense on that game day.
Understanding how much the Bucs gave up to acquire Gruden, they've been heading toward his firing and this dismal aftermath since they scored their final defensive TD on Superbowl Sunday. You may give him credit for Oakland but he pretty much took a hatchet to the deeply talented team Dungy built up since 1997 there. Today, they are hoping to win more than 1 game.
- Tom F.
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there isn't one quality person that wants to spend time in Cleveland. What in the hell is there to do besides get drunk?
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