Does Mangini really deserve another season?
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I think that Mangini handled several personnel issues terribly (QB, WR, at the very least). Not to mention the revolving door in our defensive backfield. What we're seeing late in the season is promising (3 wins in a row, a shot at winning 5 of the last 6). I think there are two ways to look at this:
1: Mangini laid the foundation for something very good. It's just now paying off.
2. The Browns had the pieces, but Mangini mishandled them until recently.
I'm tempted to think it's a bit more of the second.
Here are my real concerns:
1. Quinn should have started all season, from preseason, with full blessings from Mangini.
2. When Lewis looked like he did, his carries should have been reduced much sooner.
3. Robiskie should have been playing all along.
4. Any TE option should have been explored. Ours flat out sucked until Moore came along.
5. DBs, like the QB situation, need a bit of confidence from their coach. You're left on an island a lot. If you aren't the strongest player mentally, knowing that your coach has your back can pick you up after a blown coverage. We haven't had that.
6. Playcalling. Wow.
I think that Mangini handled several personnel issues terribly (QB, WR, at the very least). Not to mention the revolving door in our defensive backfield. What we're seeing late in the season is promising (3 wins in a row, a shot at winning 5 of the last 6). I think there are two ways to look at this:
1: Mangini laid the foundation for something very good. It's just now paying off.
2. The Browns had the pieces, but Mangini mishandled them until recently.
I'm tempted to think it's a bit more of the second.
Here are my real concerns:
1. Quinn should have started all season, from preseason, with full blessings from Mangini.
2. When Lewis looked like he did, his carries should have been reduced much sooner.
3. Robiskie should have been playing all along.
4. Any TE option should have been explored. Ours flat out sucked until Moore came along.
5. DBs, like the QB situation, need a bit of confidence from their coach. You're left on an island a lot. If you aren't the strongest player mentally, knowing that your coach has your back can pick you up after a blown coverage. We haven't had that.
6. Playcalling. Wow.
good points. let me also add that hank poteat should've been benched long time ago just like slowmal lewis. neither one helped the team in the bigger scheme of things.
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YES Mangini deserves another season, he got rid of two players in return for more draft picks and a lower salary requirements (not to mention they are me first primadonnas) neither are playing well....
He cut tons of players with 90% of them not playing in the NFL anymore (our roster was basically filled with practice squad guys...) The defense is showing some light with basically 2nd string guys from NY as quick fill system/team attitude guys......
positioned us with a lot of drafts, and the team is showing some positive changes toward the end of the season...... ITS CRAZY to not let him have another year to show more positive direction and wins on the field. We dont have to be playoff material but 7-9 wins in his second year would be nice.
Things typically get worse before they get better, patience for next season and than we will have a better metric on if he is going to bring results.
YES Mangini deserves another season, he got rid of two players in return for more draft picks and a lower salary requirements (not to mention they are me first primadonnas) neither are playing well....
He cut tons of players with 90% of them not playing in the NFL anymore (our roster was basically filled with practice squad guys...) The defense is showing some light with basically 2nd string guys from NY as quick fill system/team attitude guys......
positioned us with a lot of drafts, and the team is showing some positive changes toward the end of the season...... ITS CRAZY to not let him have another year to show more positive direction and wins on the field. We dont have to be playoff material but 7-9 wins in his second year would be nice.
Things typically get worse before they get better, patience for next season and than we will have a better metric on if he is going to bring results.
so what about this scenario, keep mangini and see how he does in the off-season and the begining of the regular season. see if he's the real deal or if he's just playing the role.
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YES Mangini deserves another season, he got rid of two players in return for more draft picks and a lower salary requirements (not to mention they are me first primadonnas) neither are playing well....
He cut tons of players with 90% of them not playing in the NFL anymore (our roster was basically filled with practice squad guys...) The defense is showing some light with basically 2nd string guys from NY as quick fill system/team attitude guys......
positioned us with a lot of drafts, and the team is showing some positive changes toward the end of the season...... ITS CRAZY to not let him have another year to show more positive direction and wins on the field. We dont have to be playoff material but 7-9 wins in his second year would be nice.
Things typically get worse before they get better, patience for next season and than we will have a better metric on if he is going to bring results.
so what about this scenario, keep mangini and see how he does in the off-season and the begining of the regular season. see if he's the real deal or if he's just playing the role.
so what about this scenario, keep mangini and see how he does in the off-season and the begining of the regular season. see if he's the real deal or if he's just playing the role.
keeping him till the regular season and fire him if he does not cut out ? that is going to burn the whole of next year. And we dont know if the next coach we hire will be good ... and thus we return to the circle.
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unless we get a big name coach to jump on the holm-train
gotta say we give him another year....
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Mangini needs to be retained for another year. He has made so much progress with a team of mediocre players. They are playing hard and commiting very few penalties, they have won three straight and obviously they the players believe in Mangini.
Does anybody think that we have a super talented #1 receiver on our roster, or a shutdown corner, or a pro bowl linebacker? I can see us moving in the right direction and it is the first time we have done so in over 5 years!
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I think that Mangini handled several personnel issues terribly (QB, WR, at the very least). Not to mention the revolving door in our defensive backfield. What we're seeing late in the season is promising (3 wins in a row, a shot at winning 5 of the last 6). I think there are two ways to look at this:
1: Mangini laid the foundation for something very good. It's just now paying off.
2. The Browns had the pieces, but Mangini mishandled them until recently.
I'm tempted to think it's a bit more of the second.
Here are my real concerns:
1. Quinn should have started all season, from preseason, with full blessings from Mangini.
2. When Lewis looked like he did, his carries should have been reduced much sooner.
3. Robiskie should have been playing all along.
4. Any TE option should have been explored. Ours flat out sucked until Moore came along.
5. DBs, like the QB situation, need a bit of confidence from their coach. You're left on an island a lot. If you aren't the strongest player mentally, knowing that your coach has your back can pick you up after a blown coverage. We haven't had that.
6. Playcalling. Wow.
Here are my real concerns:
1. Quinn should have started all season, from preseason, with full blessings from Mangini.
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Sorry I stopped reading here.
1. Did you really watch the first 3 games of the year or just read about them in the paper?
2. Yes or No answer please, I would pay BQ the $11 myn he was due this yr because of his escalator and the $9 myn he would be guaranteed next year if I would have committed to him all year, it would have been worth it.
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Yes, he deserves another season.
Regarding the QB controversy. Brady had the chance to grab that job by the throat even if he had only played as a top 20 QB. Instead he sucked big time and really showed no improvement during that time. You cannot leave a QB in week after week who is sucking and expect the team to play hard. It wasn't all Brady's fault but you owe a change to the other players who are working their butts off in every game. He gave Anderson a chance and when that failed he gave the reigns back to Brady. He did not leave one QB in but making it clear that #2 could come in at halftime if things weren't going well.
He gave each QB a legitimate chance and neither of them has proved anything. Hasn't Brady had two season ending injuries after only starting about eight games?
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I just heard the Walrus on the radio, it sounded like he is leaning towards letting Mangini go.
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It doesn't matter to me that he beat some weaker teams (Pittsburgh as well). No one gets credit when they lose to good teams. You play whoever is on the schedule. When the Pats went 16-0 in the regular season, did it matter that two wins were against the Bills?
I'm not buying that argument.
The players are playing hard and you (as an outsider) cannot determine whether they are playing for their coaches or themselves. There have been quotes (Matt Roth's comes to mind) that explains that they want to win for Ryan and Mangini. Take it for what it's worth. He could be telling the truth or he could be lying. We'll never know. The bottom line is that they're playing hard for the Cleveland Browns.
I am not going to act surprised if Eric Mangini loses his job but I think that this is a better team than sixteen weeks ago. I think that you can argue all you want about him handling the personnel in a way that you disliked but you also don't have all of the facts that the coaches have. There were plenty of posters on here in weeks 1-3 complaining that Harrison wasn't picking up the blitz. Now, everyone is bashing the coaching staff for not playing him more before now. How do we know that the benching of Jerome Harrison didn't lead to the extra effort it took to both get into the lineup and excel?
If Mike Holmgren wants a WCO/43 guy, then Mangini is gone for sure. I don't think that's fair but life isn't fair.
If Mike Holmgren says "My ego isn't so big that I am going to can a guy who's making progress as long as that guy is willing to work with me and subject to my rules." then I am okay with that too.
If Mike Holmgren gets rid of Eric Mangini because he isn't impressed, well, then there's going to be some debate especially if Marty Morningwheg (?sp) is his guy.
Perhaps Mike Holmgren waiting until next week is because he's thinking about giving Mangini a chance to continue if he'll agree to some changes in his staff.
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Here is another way to look at this situation, what if mangini can not handle taking orders and having to answer to the prez and gm after being stripped of all the power he had?
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I think Mangini should stay in Cleveland.
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Here are my real concerns:
1. Quinn should have started all season, from preseason, with full blessings from Mangini.
.
Sorry I stopped reading here.
1. Did you really watch the first 3 games of the year or just read about them in the paper?
2. Yes or No answer please, I would pay BQ the $11 myn he was due this yr because of his escalator and the $9 myn he would be guaranteed next year if I would have committed to him all year, it would have been worth it.
Sorry I stopped reading here.
1. Did you really watch the first 3 games of the year or just read about them in the paper?
2. Yes or No answer please, I would pay BQ the $11 myn he was due this yr because of his escalator and the $9 myn he would be guaranteed next year if I would have committed to him all year, it would have been worth it.
Shame you stopped reading when you did. You missed a nice post. Do me the courtesy of finishing reading it and I'll gladly answer your question.
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Here is another way to look at this situation, what if mangini can not handle taking orders and having to answer to the prez and gm after being stripped of all the power he had?
Here is another way to look at this situation, what if mangini can not handle taking orders and having to answer to the prez and gm after being stripped of all the power he had?
Which is another way of saying "I want my guy in here who will do what I tell him to do. I don't have time to be the coach but I have enough time to tell him what to do"
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100% yes.
If Holmgren is as smart as people are saying he is he won't even think about pulling the plug on Mangini after this season.
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Here is another way to look at this situation, what if mangini can not handle taking orders and having to answer to the prez and gm after being stripped of all the power he had?
Which is another way of saying "I want my guy in here who will do what I tell him to do. I don't have time to be the coach but I have enough time to tell him what to do"
Which is another way of saying "I want my guy in here who will do what I tell him to do. I don't have time to be the coach but I have enough time to tell him what to do"
Huh? How did you come up with this response to my post? When Lerner originally hired Mangini, he wanted all of the power. That is why he picked Kokinis to be his gm, so he could control everything and use those individuals that he brought in like puppets on a string.
What I'm asking is how will Mangini be now that he is under a true NFL structure where the coach isn't in charge of it all?
Also, Holmgren clearly stated that while he has the final decision, collective decision making is what he believes is the correct format to use for a fo to be successful, so your comment is off base (there's no reason to believe otherwise at this point).
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My only doubt is: this year he turned the place upside down, which you can only do once in a franchise.
The lower tier players seemed to respond pretty well and what we have today is probably the best one HC can take out of such roster.
With 2009 season the "unleash hell in the locker room" option is gone.
He has to build on what he has.
I think he can do it but I'm not 100% sure.
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Mangini inherited a lazy soft team from RAC. He changed the entire way of coaching. He got rid of the people who didn't want to do it his way, and has established a team that plays its heart out. This team has been improving. Players who don't like the coach don't perform. Remember Palmer's second year? We got blown out virtually the last few games with players who didn't care. This team is making a statement. They want Mangini to stay. You don't get rid of a coach after only one season. I would give him minimum of one more season. I think he will do good.
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Of course they are playing for pride and their jobs. It's what I said when when people all over Mangini that the team had quit on him. Now that they are playing hard people are finding a new way to criticize Mangini. Rucker's right. The point is that players really don't play for their coaches. But if a team wins, is well prepared, and is put in situations to be successful that's coaching. Against KC Robiskie was a force on special teams. Where were all the people that chided Mangini for insisting that he do so? Special teams won that game and great special teams give teams a huge advantage. In the last three games our QBs have managed the game. Does anybody remember all the motion and delay of game penalties we had last year.
The team is composed. Our disguise defense is taking hold. We're making up for our lack of talent with scheme. Guys like Bernanrd and Trusnik are looking like they can be major contributors going forward. Mangini, BTW had the eye to pick up Roth when Parcells absolutely screwed the pooch in cutting this guy. This isn't a fluke. He was a second round pick who was HUGE in their 11-5 year last season. If this is an uncapped year, he's restricted as a free agent. Meaning we can tender him and we get draft compensation if he signs with another team. Ummmm, DUH! I guarantee you that Belichick would LOVE to have this guy. He's been amazing at setting the edge and has a beastly bull rush.
Anyway, here's the thing with Harrison. We went through 3 QB injuries last year because we couldn't protect our QBs. As soon as he showed he could pick up the blitz, Harrison got his playing time.
And don't forget that we ran up 170 plus yards against the number 1 rush defense in the NFL on a night where no one could throw and in that game our major contributors were Jennings and Cribbs. The line play has improved and most knowledgeable football people will tell you that an offensive line needs to play together for a while to jell. Mack has REALLY emerged in the second half of this season. But the way to negatively spin this is: why didn't Harrison get these touches earlier?
Harrison's been fantastic in the last two games, but his fresh legs in the 14th and 15th weeks of the season haven't hurt. It's really not realistic not to take this into consideration. I remember Lee Suggs having a similar end to a season a few years back. And in both Pitt (against a really good rush defense) and Oakland (a pretty bad one) our defense played strong and our QBs did not turn the ball over. We played from ahead and were able to get the RBs a ton of carries where they racked up a ton of yards.
As for Jamal, the guy was a team leader and Mangini has to deal with locker room issues. He had to give Lewis every opportunity to succeed and really was limited in options. Harrison was limited in participation at practice the week following the Bengals game and had an inexcusable "ball security" lapse that cost the Browns a TD the other way (and the game considering the D otherwise pretty much shut down the Cincy offense). He had a pretty big fumble in the Oakland game as well.
Harrison deserves a ton of credit. He's hit the hole fast and taken advantage of this opportunity. Things that Mangini has done over the course of this season, however, has contributed to that success.
Hopefully, he keeps working so that he doesn't put the ball on the carpet.
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