Holmgren's Decision Made
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If Mangini is fired in order to bring in Zorn as the HC, I will personally start up the Fire Mike Holmgren Fan Club!
If Mangini is fired in order to bring in Zorn as the HC, I will personally start up the Fire Mike Holmgren Fan Club!
it's not going to happen, but if it did i would hunt mike holmgren down, kick him in the balls and smear my nuts across his face.
once a fan, always a fan. married to a steeler fan. aaaaaaaaah! --andy -
If Mangini is fired in order to bring in Zorn as the HC, I will personally start up the Fire Mike Holmgren Fan Club!
it's not going to happen, but if it did i would hunt mike holmgren down, kick him in the balls and smear my nuts across his face.
it's not going to happen, but if it did i would hunt mike holmgren down, kick him in the balls and smear my nuts across his face as he wined.
easy does it...you re already on warden lewis' list
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If Mangini is fired in order to bring in Zorn as the HC, I will personally start up the Fire Mike Holmgren Fan Club!
it's not going to happen, but if it did i would hunt mike holmgren down, kick him in the balls and smear my nuts across his face.
it's not going to happen, but if it did i would hunt mike holmgren down, kick him in the balls and smear my nuts across his face as he wined.
....and I'll hold him down for you!
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suns said:
Mangini instead of Zorn!! pleasee!!I don't think it said Zorn would be a candidate for HC....it said possibly on the staff....which i took as OC....
I don't think it said Zorn would be a candidate for HC....it said possibly on the staff....which i took as OC....
That would leave Marty Mornhingwheg as the Head Coach in this equation. We read it. EVERY new hotshot that comes into Cleveland gives us the same speech. You just gotta be patient. I'll be patient if you're not RIPPING out the first likable foundation that brought the fun and excitement back to Sundays. In all honesty, we wanted this team to be playing good football in the second half of the season. Comparing the 2009 ending to 0 TDs in the final 7 weeks of 08 is a HUGE turnaround for the better. It doesn't alley-oop the need to start all over from scratch again.
Ever since we got our TEAM back I've heard we're gonna use the West Coast Offense and when that fad didn't work - we're gonna use the 3-4. And now that it took about 4-5 years to BEGIN to see some of the right 3-4 personnel - we're gonna revert right back to West Coast Offense tunelvision and deep 6 what our personel seemed to be fitting all of a sudden. Folks, we're closer to a Parcells/BB system than pretending Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and Tom Rathman are here to help Joe Montana or Steve Young. Besides, does anyone realize how much different the SF climate is to the Lake Erie climate? Just bring me a bunch of guys I don't have to call candyasses every single Sunday. This last group of guys we watched down the stretch played their tails off for us and I really appreciated it.
AGAIN, what makes Marty Mornhingwheg ideal? Like RAC, he's a good Coordinator when he has a GREAT Head Coach. That in no way means GREAT hire as Head Coach in Cleveland. I don't mind us hiring an OC and maybe Jim Zorn will be a better OC than Head Coach. Who knows?
I saw alot of Jets games this year and their offense/scoring weapons looked ALOT like our's. They had to run the ball, have Brad Smith excel in their WildDawg and in the return game. They also got points from their D on occassion. They also had their final 2 opponents more interested in resting KEY players and keeping others healthy. I don't see ANY difference in Schottenheimer & Daboll. They are just a little deeper at RB than us with a 1st rd draft pick at TE to help the young QB and inconsistent on the perimeter and deep. They were much better balanced on offense when Mangini was there and found a reason to promote Daboll.
ALOT of people are blaming Daboll for Winslow HATING Savage and wanting out, Braylon wanting bright lights - big city, Stallworth driving all liquored up, etc. What nobody has acknowledged is we've NEVER utuilized Cribbs better on offense. Stcukey ended up with more consistent hands than Braylon after a shakey start. Our running game ran through 8-9 men in the box playing run every play. We NEVER started off 1st and 15 or 1st and 20 like we did constantly in our last 4 years. There's SO MANY things that guy improved this season inspite of arguably the most pathetic starting QBing any team had to endure in 2009. The completion percentages don't lie. Once Daboll got to know the starters - we got it on folks.
Biggest mistake is well documented by better minds than mine - WAITING to exhale which could only happen when Harrison finally got on the field. If that guy played the entire season - he's pushing Chris Johnson for the rushing title. In Tennessee, they don't ask their 200 pound RB to block more than 3% of the time, which is why they EMPLOY a fullback. They don't ask CJ to block so they can get FB Ahmard Hall vertical. Why would they?
- Tom F. (I'm really worried about this week)
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You guys act like you're happy to be 5-11
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I don't think it said Zorn would be a candidate for HC....it said possibly on the staff....which i took as OC....
That would leave Marty Mornhingwheg as the Head Coach in this equation. We read it. EVERY new hotshot that comes into Cleveland gives us the same speech. You just gotta be patient. I'll be patient if you're not RIPPING out the first likable foundation that brought the fun and excitement back to Sundays. In all honesty, we wanted this team to be playing good football in the second half of the season. Comparing the 2009 ending to 0 TDs in the final 7 weeks of 08 is a HUGE turnaround for the better. It doesn't alley-oop the need to start all over from scratch again.
Ever since we got our TEAM back I've heard we're gonna use the West Coast Offense and when that fad didn't work - we're gonna use the 3-4. And now that it took about 4-5 years to BEGIN to see some of the right 3-4 personnel - we're gonna revert right back to West Coast Offense tunelvision and deep 6 what our personel seemed to be fitting all of a sudden. Folks, we're closer to a Parcells/BB system than pretending Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and Tom Rathman are here to help Joe Montana or Steve Young. Besides, does anyone realize how much different the SF climate is to the Lake Erie climate? Just bring me a bunch of guys I don't have to call candyasses every single Sunday. This last group of guys we watched down the stretch played their tails off for us and I really appreciated it.
AGAIN, what makes Marty Mornhingwheg ideal? Like RAC, he's a good Coordinator when he has a GREAT Head Coach. That in no way means GREAT hire as Head Coach in Cleveland. I don't mind us hiring an OC and maybe Jim Zorn will be a better OC than Head Coach. Who knows?
I saw alot of Jets games this year and their offense/scoring weapons looked ALOT like our's. They had to run the ball, have Brad Smith excel in their WildDawg and in the return game. They also got points from their D on occassion. They also had their final 2 opponents more interested in resting KEY players and keeping others healthy. I don't see ANY difference in Schottenheimer & Daboll. They are just a little deeper at RB than us with a 1st rd draft pick at TE to help the young QB and inconsistent on the perimeter and deep. They were much better balanced on offense when Mangini was there and found a reason to promote Daboll.
ALOT of people are blaming Daboll for Winslow HATING Savage and wanting out, Braylon wanting bright lights - big city, Stallworth driving all liquored up, etc. What nobody has acknowledged is we've NEVER utuilized Cribbs better on offense. Stcukey ended up with more consistent hands than Braylon after a shakey start. Our running game ran through 8-9 men in the box playing run every play. We NEVER started off 1st and 15 or 1st and 20 like we did constantly in our last 4 years. There's SO MANY things that guy improved this season inspite of arguably the most pathetic starting QBing any team had to endure in 2009. The completion percentages don't lie. Once Daboll got to know the starters - we got it on folks.
Biggest mistake is well documented by better minds than mine - WAITING to exhale which could only happen when Harrison finally got on the field. If that guy played the entire season - he's pushing Chris Johnson for the rushing title. In Tennessee, they don't ask their 200 pound RB to block more than 3% of the time, which is why they EMPLOY a fullback. They don't ask CJ to block so they can get FB Ahmard Hall vertical. Why would they?
- Tom F. (I'm really worried about this week)
AGAIN, what makes Marty Mornhingwheg ideal? Like RAC, he's a good Coordinator when he has a GREAT Head Coach. That in no way means GREAT hire as Head Coach in Cleveland. I don't mind us hiring an OC and maybe Jim Zorn will be a better OC than Head Coach. Who knows?
- Tom F. (I'm really worried about this week)
I have no idea other than that is who they want.
Just because he didn't get it done in Detroit is no indicator of the future..
Me, I stick with Mangini, but then I am just some guy on a message board and haven't spent 35 years in the NFL at one level or another.
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I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
He also said, he doesn't care about system, WCO or 3-4, or whatever... he just wants to win. This a most telling comment I heard in today's press conference.
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I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
He also said, he doesn't care about system, WCO or 3-4, or whatever... he just wants to win. This a most telling comment I heard in today's press conference.
He also said, he doesn't care about system, WCO or 3-4, or whatever... he just wants to win. This a most telling comment I heard in today's press conference.
It was a positive....I don't think anything is set in stone at this point....at least if what we heard can be taken at face value.
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Something telling to me is how Holmgren didn't get involved after his hiring. Seems like he would have wanted to be here firsthand to see what the general aura was in Berea with the players and staff. Yeah, he says he wants to take some time to evaluate things but more than likely that appears to be a halfass couple of days of going through the motions.
I'm not too sure Mangie agrees to many stipulations, he is a system guy who believes in what he is doing. There has got to be a way for these guys to come together, cuz this is going to give me the same feeling as when we broke the bank for DA, it could literally set the franchise back another two to three years. We finally have a semblance of power football around here which is what our division and climate is all about, yet we want to tear it down and go West Coast? The defense could sustain a switch, but I really liked the way they responded to Ryan and it looked like he was finding a comfort zone with being aggressive.
I don't like this, it reeks of another bad decision by Lerner, but that doesn't mean I don't like Holmgren either. If Mangie is fired, this team is going to suck bad next year folks, that is the bottom line.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
Something telling to me is how Holmgren didn't get involved after his hiring. Seems like he would have wanted to be here firsthand to see what the general aura was in Berea with the players and staff. Yeah, he says he wants to take some time to evaluate things but more than likely that appears to be a halfass couple of days of going through the motions.
I'm not too sure Mangie agrees to many stipulations, he is a system guy who believes in what he is doing. There has got to be a way for these guys to come together, cuz this is going to give me the same feeling as when we broke the bank for DA, it could literally set the franchise back another two to three years. We finally have a semblance of power football around here which is what our division and climate is all about, yet we want to tear it down and go West Coast? The defense could sustain a switch, but I really liked the way they responded to Ryan and it looked like he was finding a comfort zone with being aggressive.
I don't like this, it reeks of another bad decision by Lerner, but that doesn't mean I don't like Holmgren either. If Mangie is fired, this team is going to suck bad next year folks, that is the bottom line.
Something telling to me is how Holmgren didn't get involved after his hiring. Seems like he would have wanted to be here firsthand to see what the general aura was in Berea with the players and staff. Yeah, he says he wants to take some time to evaluate things but more than likely that appears to be a halfass couple of days of going through the motions.
I'm not too sure Mangie agrees to many stipulations, he is a system guy who believes in what he is doing. There has got to be a way for these guys to come together, cuz this is going to give me the same feeling as when we broke the bank for DA, it could literally set the franchise back another two to three years. We finally have a semblance of power football around here which is what our division and climate is all about, yet we want to tear it down and go West Coast? The defense could sustain a switch, but I really liked the way they responded to Ryan and it looked like he was finding a comfort zone with being aggressive.
I don't like this, it reeks of another bad decision by Lerner, but that doesn't mean I don't like Holmgren either. If Mangie is fired, this team is going to suck bad next year folks, that is the bottom line.
Did you even hear what Holmgren even said? Did you? He said that his so-called system was irrevelant, it didn't matter. His goal was to win.
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Something telling to me is how Holmgren didn't get involved after his hiring. Seems like he would have wanted to be here firsthand to see what the general aura was in Berea with the players and staff. Yeah, he says he wants to take some time to evaluate things but more than likely that appears to be a halfass couple of days of going through the motions.
I'm not too sure Mangie agrees to many stipulations, he is a system guy who believes in what he is doing. There has got to be a way for these guys to come together, cuz this is going to give me the same feeling as when we broke the bank for DA, it could literally set the franchise back another two to three years. We finally have a semblance of power football around here which is what our division and climate is all about, yet we want to tear it down and go West Coast? The defense could sustain a switch, but I really liked the way they responded to Ryan and it looked like he was finding a comfort zone with being aggressive.
I don't like this, it reeks of another bad decision by Lerner, but that doesn't mean I don't like Holmgren either. If Mangie is fired, this team is going to suck bad next year folks, that is the bottom line.
Did you even hear what Holmgren even said? Did you? He said that his so-called system was irrevelant, it didn't matter. His goal was to win.
Did you even hear what Holmgren even said? Did you? He said that his so-called system was irrevelant, it didn't matter. His goal was to win.
I don't believe everything these guys say, might have something to do with being a fan for 35 years. Sure, he may be willing to tweak it some, but the overall issue is whether or not Mangie will give in to not having total autonomy. Whoever the GM is will probably have something to say about systems don't you think?
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Did you even hear what Holmgren even said? Did you? He said that his so-called system was irrevelant, it didn't matter. His goal was to win.
I don't believe everything these guys say, might have something to do with being a fan for 35 years. Sure, he may be willing to tweak it some, but the overall issue is whether or not Mangie will give in to not having total autonomy. Whoever the GM is will probably have something to say about systems don't you think?
I don't believe everything these guys say, might have something to do with being a fan for 35 years. Sure, he may be willing to tweak it some, but the overall issue is whether or not Mangie will give in to not having total autonomy. Whoever the GM is will probably have something to say about systems don't you think?
I think the thing is that the offense now already has WCO elements. There are no true West Coast offenses.
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Metcalf_FTW said:
I think Holmgren may be a mistake.you may have hit a home run.........he is no football genius just been on the good side of things in his time
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Metcalf_FTW said:
I think Holmgren may be a mistake.you may have hit a home run.........he is no football genius just been on the good side of things in his time
you may have hit a home run.........he is no football genius just been on the good side of things in his time
Who let the wet dish rag back in?
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I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
I couldn't agree more. I was really hoping Holmgren would just worry about the roster and trust Mangini to run the team. Now, it seems like Mikey may have a bigger ego than Mangini, and perhaps he's the one who should get on board with Mangini's process, not the other way around. Mangini can afford to play hardball with him because he will get hired again somewhere else, and he will be successful. What scares me is that he'll play too rough at the meeting and we'll lose our coach.
I find it curious though that Holmgren has one of his boys coming in to interview for the GM position on the same day he is meeting with the coach? Sounds to me like TWO guys must approve of Mangini and I am really afraid that will not happen. It is very possible that we are gonna be F'd. All because Lerner hit the panic sitch in the middle of a rebuilding year, instead of letting the process play out. He vowed to bring in a czar, instead of just letting the one he hired do the job. Now, we're back to square one. If Mangini goes, EVERY player who's contract is up, will go. How could they have faith in an orginization as schizophrenic as this one. And we'll get to watch another coach butcher a 5 year plan that sets us back, yet again.
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I don't believe everything these guys say, might have something to do with being a fan for 35 years. Sure, he may be willing to tweak it some, but the overall issue is whether or not Mangie will give in to not having total autonomy. Whoever the GM is will probably have something to say about systems don't you think?
I think the thing is that the offense now already has WCO elements. There are no true West Coast offenses.
I think the thing is that the offense now already has WCO elements. There are no true West Coast offenses.
Mike alluded to that today
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I will say this...Holmgren said something about checking ego's at the door...and I agree. But coaches have ego's about "their" coaching tree, and it seems like Mike might have a bit of a ego about his and would rather see one of "his" guys make good over a Bellicheck guy.
Just food for thought.
Just saying
I couldn't agree more. I was really hoping Holmgren would just worry about the roster and trust Mangini to run the team. Now, it seems like Mikey may have a bigger ego than Mangini, and perhaps he's the one who should get on board with Mangini's process, not the other way around. Mangini can afford to play hardball with him because he will get hired again somewhere else, and he will be successful. What scares me is that he'll play too rough at the meeting and we'll lose our coach.
I find it curious though that Holmgren has one of his boys coming in to interview for the GM position on the same day he is meeting with the coach? Sounds to me like TWO guys must approve of Mangini and I am really afraid that will not happen. It is very possible that we are gonna be F'd. All because Lerner hit the panic sitch in the middle of a rebuilding year, instead of letting the process play out. He vowed to bring in a czar, instead of just letting the one he hired do the job. Now, we're back to square one. If Mangini goes, EVERY player who's contract is up, will go. How could they have faith in an orginization as schizophrenic as this one. And we'll get to watch another coach butcher a 5 year plan that sets us back, yet again.
I couldn't agree more. I was really hoping Holmgren would just worry about the roster and trust Mangini to run the team. Now, it seems like Mikey may have a bigger ego than Mangini, and perhaps he's the one who should get on board with Mangini's process, not the other way around. Mangini can afford to play hardball with him because he will get hired again somewhere else, and he will be successful. What scares me is that he'll play too rough at the meeting and we'll lose our coach.
I find it curious though that Holmgren has one of his boys coming in to interview for the GM position on the same day he is meeting with the coach? Sounds to me like TWO guys must approve of Mangini and I am really afraid that will not happen. It is very possible that we are gonna be F'd. All because Lerner hit the panic sitch in the middle of a rebuilding year, instead of letting the process play out. He vowed to bring in a czar, instead of just letting the one he hired do the job. Now, we're back to square one. If Mangini goes, EVERY player who's contract is up, will go. How could they have faith in an organization as schizophrenic as this one. And we'll get to watch another coach butcher a 5 year plan that sets us back, yet again.
I think Holmgren likes Mangini. I just think it depends on the meeting tomorrow. It's a shame it had to go down this. It's a really tough decision. I think Holmgren will give Mangini another year.
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Holmgren seems like a sensible guy, I think he'll do the right thing but Mangie has to give in some.
Is a pig's ass pork?
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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