My push for Dan LeFevour

Alo

@ballpeen said:
I would rather draft 2 O-linemen...
That said, I wouldn't mind drafting 2, though I would like to get one sooner to maybe get a little better player.

If the goal is getting a real qb, how about drafting one in the 1st and one in the 2nd?? That doesn't sound all that great does it.

It's sort of like the lottery....does buying 1 extra quick pick really increase your chances of hitting a winner??

Well, if you have a QB guru running the organization, you'd hope that the FO would have more luck finding serviceable QBs in the mid to late rounds. Even if they don't become your starting QB, you can rely on them as backups or trade them to other teams for higher picks, like the Packers did with Mark Brunell & Aaron Brooks.

Ron Wolf seemed to draft a QB almost every year.

1992:

9th Round:

Ty Detmer

1993:

4th Round:

Mark Brunell

1995:

5th Round:

Jay Barker

1996:

7th Round:

Kyle Wachholtz

1997:

7th Round:

Ronnie McAda

1998:

6th Round:

Matt Hasselbeck

1999:

4th Round:

Aaron Brooks

I'd be interested in seeing Holmgren replicate Wolf's practice in Cleveland.

DawgTracker

@ballpeen said:
It's sort of like the lottery....does buying 1 extra quick pick really increase your chances of hitting a winner??

Buying a bunch of tickets doesn't improve my chances?

Things change. If a couple of these guys have good senior bowl showings and workouts they will sky rocket up the board. It will be interesting to see when we draft a QB. Do we wait until the last minute to pick the guy we want (where we could lose out) or do we take someone earlier than most people project him?

ballpeen

@dawgtracker said:
Buying a bunch of tickets doesn't improve my chances?
Things change. If a couple of these guys have good senior bowl showings and workouts they will sky rocket up the board. It will be interesting to see when we draft a QB. Do we wait until the last minute to pick the guy we want (where we could lose out) or do we take someone earlier than most people project him?

I guess it depends. If the guy is a 5th round type of guy I could see taking him in the 4th...but if he is ranked higher than that, I doubt we would reach....I hope not anyway.

Big Chuck

@alo said:
Yeah, the Senior Bowl will be very important. Pike and Canfield are intriguing to me, but each needs to answer questions about his game: for Pike, it's mental toughness and the "system QB" q's; for Canfield, it's mobility and footwork - particularly his ability to shuffle & reset his feet while facing pressure. Both of those guys could be 3rd round options.
Also, keep an eye on Jarrett Brown; he's very raw but has McNabb-like physical tools. If we bring in McNabb, it'd be a good idea to draft Brown in the 4th & have him learn under Donovan for 2-3 years. I like him a lot, but he needs to have a good week to keep his stock from sliding.

I agree with you about Canfield. I live in Oregon and seen a lot of him. He has a strong arm and leadership skills. He really only had two weapons the last two years, the Rogers brothers. The brothers accounted for about 90% of their offense. He did a lot with little help from anybody else. His footwork needs improvement like you say. The Browns O-line would be a real benefit for him. He never had anybody as good as Mack or Thomas blocking for him. I think he could be worth a 4th rd. pick.

maddogg7888

I understand what people are saying about his losses but the only games he got blown out in are the clemson, michigan, georgia and kansas games, otherwise the loss wasnt from a lack of offensive performance. And I also get how his down field accuracy may be a concern, but EVERY qb has their flaws, i heard the same thing about matt ryan but he seems to be doing ok. The only point I am trying to make is a third rd pick isnt much risk for the huge upside I think this guy has. I mean if a 3rd round guy busts, no one really cares too much (is anyone still mad over travis wilson...exactly)

Flugel

@alo said:
Well, if you have a QB guru running the organization, you'd hope that the FO would have more luck finding serviceable QBs in the mid to late rounds. Even if they don't become your starting QB, you can rely on them as backups or trade them to other teams for higher picks, like the Packers did with Mark Brunell & Aaron Brooks.
Ron Wolf seemed to draft a QB almost every year.

1992:

9th Round:
Ty Detmer

1993:

4th Round:
Mark Brunell

1995:

5th Round:
Jay Barker

1996:

7th Round:
Kyle Wachholtz

1997:

7th Round:
Ronnie McAda

1998:

6th Round:
Matt Hasselbeck

1999:

4th Round:
Aaron Brooks

I'd be interested in seeing Holmgren replicate Wolf's practice in Cleveland.

I forgot about Brooks! Another guy they drafted in Green Bay was Kurt Warner.

- Tom F.

maddogg7888

i would just like to point out that dan lefevour had the best performance in the senior game the other day...just sayin lol

Flugel

@maddogg7888 said:
i would just like to point out that dan lefevour had the best performance in the senior game the other day...just sayin lol

He had a beautiful throw for a TD Maddogg. I liked him 2nd best to Zac Robinson. The main difference I found in the 2 kids was when pressure moved the 2 kids out of the drop back - Robinson was looking downfield for receivers while LeFevour was only looking where to run. I thought there was more poise in Robinson and was pleasantly surprised by the zip in his passes.

However, when Lefevour was asked to execute a 5 step drop and throw to the flag pattern it was a perfect strike. I've learned over the years the NFL calls for QBs that can elude and improvise under pressure in the pocket. Our division rarely allotted us the time for 5 to 7 step drops. When we played Detroit - we got that kind of time and the results weren't horrible.

I think Robinson could be a 4th round gift if he doesn't elevate his stock. LeFevour looks like he'd require just a little more time and patience. He's got the speed but that doesn't mean he's got the speed reading down pat to go with it just yet. The good thing to know - is there are Tony Romo stories to be made out there if teams exercise patience. Parcells PROTECTED Romo to no end before he deemed him ready to rock.

- Tom F.

maddogg7888

i agree with you about robinson, but i tend to think that in alot of situations when a qb is forced out of the pocket they tend to force the ball downfield and in some cases results in a big play, but can also lead to a turnover. my thing with lefevour is that i dont mind him looking for the run because i would rather take a 4 yard run instead of a pick anytime, but thats just my personal opinion

7moses7

@maddogg7888 said:
i agree with you about robinson, but i tend to think that in alot of situations when a qb is forced out of the pocket they tend to force the ball downfield and in some cases results in a big play, but can also lead to a turnover. my thing with lefevour is that i dont mind him looking for the run because i would rather take a 4 yard run instead of a pick anytime, but thats just my personal opinion

although his college career was limited Bill Stull from Pittsburgh played in a pro style offense with decent numbers his senior year,would be available in 5th round.

Alo

I think this sums it up well:

Michael Schottey said:
LeFevour can throw and run but can't throw on the run...that needs to change if he wants to be anything more than a backup

via here.

hoorta

@alo said:
I think this sums it up well:
via here.

Well Manning looks pretty good when he just sits in the pocket and tears defenses apart, no? One thing in didn't pay attention to is how quick is LeFevour's release?

IMHO there's damn few qbs in the league that have good accuracy when they're running for their lives. Rothlisberger, and who else?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:
Well Manning looks pretty good when he just sits in the pocket and tears defenses apart, no? One thing in didn't pay attention to is how quick is LeFevour's release?
IMHO there's damn few qbs in the league that have good accuracy when they're running for their lives. Rothlisberger, and who else?

It's kind of hard to compare LeFevour and Manning, they have two different styles of play.

Manning is an offensive wizard. He can read a defense completely before he even takes the snap, and call audibles to suit. Manning progresses through his reads quickly, and when things go to shit, he still maintains a calm demeanor and keeps his poise. Manning is the picture of poise in the pocket, just like Johnny U. A lot of that comes with experience, but for the most part, he was doing these things since his rookie year.

LeFevour, on the other hand, seems to have trouble progressing through his reads. In the Senior Bowl, as with all season, he seemed to rely on his feet when his primary receiver was covered. When things go to shit for LeFevour, he's looking on how to get out of the pocket, not at his receivers downfield. Don't get me wrong, he still is an amazing QB, his numbers scream that. He made 4.3 ass-billion plays on his feet, and that's an exact number. But, in the NFL, defensive tackles are as fast as linebackers, defensive ends/linebackers are as fast as cornerbacks and safeties, and cornerbacks and safeties are as fast as cheetahs. His speed isn't going to help him near as much on the pro-level.

Manning will sit in the pocket until the very last second, and then deliver a strike to his target, sacrificing his body in the process. To me, that's what makes a great quarterback. I'm not saying LeFevour doesn't do that, I'm just stating my opinion. LeFevour was a running QB in college, you can't deny that. If he can't throw on the run, that severly handcuffs him on the next level. Can he make the transition to the pros? Can he make all the pro-level throws? I don't know, we'll all have to find out. I think he'll do pretty good, personally. But not in the traditional QB sense, I would imagine.