Holmgren; West Coast Offense = ? at QB
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Um, actually, I think he stated the exact opposite.
I may have read between the lines on these quotes, but I don't think this is stating the exact opposite:
"I asked him to think about a few things this evening," said Holmgren, an NFL coach for 17 seasons with Green Bay and Seattle. "I did give him a list of things to think about for our meeting. In fairness to Eric, I was a coach for a long time, it's important he understands where I'm coming from and I understand where he's coming from. The only way you win in this league is when the coach and general manager are on the same wavelength. That's the only chance.
"When egos get in the way, it destroys the team. My goal is to have everyone thinking in a like manner, going in the same direction. Let's put the egos aside."
And this too:
(On if he will come in thinking he wants a West Coast Offense team)- "I think that's a decision I make after I talk to the head coach. If he doesn't like what I like then he has to convince me that what he's doing is better than what I would like to see. That's the type of discussion that we have. Then after that, like I said, you come to a consensus, you come to an agreement. We both want the same thing for the Cleveland Browns and then once we decide on that, now you try and get the right personnel to fit the system. That's the way I've always done it and I anticipate that's the way we'll do it again."
These don't sound like "hands off approach" quotes to me. Also, bringing in Heckert, who is schooled in Holmgren's style of offense, suggests they want to acquire players who will fit Holmgren's scheme. As Holmgren said "you try and get the right personnel to fit the system", and he brought in Heckert who fits Holmgren's philosophy. It might be a stretch to say the Browns are going to adopt a "west coast offense" but I think you will definitely see more of an emphasis on passing, even if the Browns won their final games on the run.
I may have read between the lines on these quotes, but I don't think this is stating the exact opposite:
"I asked him to think about a few things this evening," said Holmgren, an NFL coach for 17 seasons with Green Bay and Seattle. "I did give him a list of things to think about for our meeting. In fairness to Eric, I was a coach for a long time, it's important he understands where I'm coming from and I understand where he's coming from. The only way you win in this league is when the coach and general manager are on the same wavelength. That's the only chance.
"When egos get in the way, it destroys the team. My goal is to have everyone thinking in a like manner, going in the same direction. Let's put the egos aside."
And this too:
(On if he will come in thinking he wants a West Coast Offense team)- "I think that's a decision I make after I talk to the head coach. If he doesn't like what I like then he has to convince me that what he's doing is better than what I would like to see. That's the type of discussion that we have. Then after that, like I said, you come to a consensus, you come to an agreement. We both want the same thing for the Cleveland Browns and then once we decide on that, now you try and get the right personnel to fit the system. That's the way I've always done it and I anticipate that's the way we'll do it again."
These don't sound like "hands off approach" quotes to me. Also, bringing in Heckert, who is schooled in Holmgren's style of offense, suggests they want to acquire players who will fit Holmgren's scheme. As Holmgren said "you try and get the right personnel to fit the system", and he brought in Heckert who fits Holmgren's philosophy. It might be a stretch to say the Browns are going to adopt a "west coast offense" but I think you will definitely see more of an emphasis on passing, even if the Browns won their final games on the run.
But you are also totally ignoring his statement that “west coast offense doesn’t really exist anymore” and that Wolf said he wouldn’t give him any players he didn’t want.
You can try to read between the lines all you want, but I actually read something different in those quotes than you did.
He’s also stated that all 3 guys (President, GM, and Coach) need to be on the same page to win. The fact he’s keeping Mangini says to me, that he will work to give Mangini players that fit Mangini’s system and scheme.
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i kinda read it that way too.
i don't see Homlgren being a dictator at the expense of sucess.
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Osiris,
You are referencing some old quotes before Holmgren actually talked football with Mangini. I believe the press conference where both of them (and Heckert) spoke clarified the actual plans.
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I think the game plan for this season was designed around the fact that the Browns had QBs and WRs of questionable ability. If the QB talent improves and we acquire WRs with good hands, that could change.
I confess I still like when the running game prompts the opposition to moan, "We knew what they were going to do and we still couldn't stop it." I wouldn't complain at all if we heard that every week.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
Um, actually, I think he stated the exact opposite.
I may have read between the lines on these quotes, but I don't think this is stating the exact opposite:
"I asked him to think about a few things this evening," said Holmgren, an NFL coach for 17 seasons with Green Bay and Seattle. "I did give him a list of things to think about for our meeting. In fairness to Eric, I was a coach for a long time, it's important he understands where I'm coming from and I understand where he's coming from. The only way you win in this league is when the coach and general manager are on the same wavelength. That's the only chance.
"When egos get in the way, it destroys the team. My goal is to have everyone thinking in a like manner, going in the same direction. Let's put the egos aside."
And this too:
(On if he will come in thinking he wants a West Coast Offense team)- "I think that's a decision I make after I talk to the head coach. If he doesn't like what I like then he has to convince me that what he's doing is better than what I would like to see. That's the type of discussion that we have. Then after that, like I said, you come to a consensus, you come to an agreement. We both want the same thing for the Cleveland Browns and then once we decide on that, now you try and get the right personnel to fit the system. That's the way I've always done it and I anticipate that's the way we'll do it again."
These don't sound like "hands off approach" quotes to me. Also, bringing in Heckert, who is schooled in Holmgren's style of offense, suggests they want to acquire players who will fit Holmgren's scheme. As Holmgren said "you try and get the right personnel to fit the system", and he brought in Heckert who fits Holmgren's philosophy. It might be a stretch to say the Browns are going to adopt a "west coast offense" but I think you will definitely see more of an emphasis on passing, even if the Browns won their final games on the run.
I may have read between the lines on these quotes, but I don't think this is stating the exact opposite:
"I asked him to think about a few things this evening," said Holmgren, an NFL coach for 17 seasons with Green Bay and Seattle. "I did give him a list of things to think about for our meeting. In fairness to Eric, I was a coach for a long time, it's important he understands where I'm coming from and I understand where he's coming from. The only way you win in this league is when the coach and general manager are on the same wavelength. That's the only chance.
"When egos get in the way, it destroys the team. My goal is to have everyone thinking in a like manner, going in the same direction. Let's put the egos aside."
And this too:
(On if he will come in thinking he wants a West Coast Offense team)- "I think that's a decision I make after I talk to the head coach. If he doesn't like what I like then he has to convince me that what he's doing is better than what I would like to see. That's the type of discussion that we have. Then after that, like I said, you come to a consensus, you come to an agreement. We both want the same thing for the Cleveland Browns and then once we decide on that, now you try and get the right personnel to fit the system. That's the way I've always done it and I anticipate that's the way we'll do it again."
These don't sound like "hands off approach" quotes to me. Also, bringing in Heckert, who is schooled in Holmgren's style of offense, suggests they want to acquire players who will fit Holmgren's scheme. As Holmgren said "you try and get the right personnel to fit the system", and he brought in Heckert who fits Holmgren's philosophy. It might be a stretch to say the Browns are going to adopt a "west coast offense" but I think you will definitely see more of an emphasis on passing, even if the Browns won their final games on the run.
those quotes out of context will often lead to different interpretations of the same thing.
that's why i forget the middle man and just listen to the press conferences myself or read the transcripts thereof.
why settle for the media cherrypicking when you can just listen to everything they have to write from yourself, context intact? i think this attributes to more deviation in opinion than actual differing in opinion.
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kinda off-topic, but wasn't it actually Bernie Kosar who originally coined the term "West Coast offense" in the first place, referencing the Super Chargers of the 80's? specifically the "Coryell version" of Paul Brown's offensive passing concept/scheme that was implemented in San Diego (west coast)?
boy, what a journey! now present day it has completely taken on a life of it's own!
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kinda off-topic, but wasn't it actually Bernie Kosar who originally coined the term "West Coast offense" in the first place, referencing the Super Chargers of the 80's? specifically the "Coryell version" of Paul Brown's offensive passing concept/scheme that was implemented in San Diego (west coast)?
boy, what a journey! now present day it has completely taken on a life of it's own!
kinda off-topic, but wasn't it actually Bernie Kosar who originally coined the term "West Coast offense" in the first place, referencing the Super Chargers of the 80's? specifically the "Coryell version" of Paul Brown's offensive passing concept/scheme that was implemented in San Diego (west coast)?
boy, what a journey! now present day it has completely taken on a life of it's own!
That's exactly right. The term "West Coast Offense" is a misnomer. Bernie Kosar mistakenly referenced the Air Coryell system as the West Coast, and it's pretty much been around ever since.
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yes! i just looked it up. Bernie Kosar brought the term "West Coast Offense" to popularity, referencing the Chargers and Raiders of the 60's.
Coryell and Gillman coined the term at least as far back as the sixties, but it had been interpreted incorrectly by many fans to mean Bill Walsh's dominant 49'ers of the 80's and has stuck.
so while Kosar is credited (and credits himself) with using the term, apparently he did a bad job of explaining it and it has subsequently been handed on to the point now where it has taken on this life of it's own.
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This article kind of backs up what I was saying in this thread:
Also factoring into the QB decision is Holmgren's intention to transition the Browns' offense into something more compatible with his beliefs in the West Coast hybrid he ran in Green Bay and Seattle.
Haskell has been working closely with offensive coordinator Brian Daboll on that, he confirmed.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...dent_mik_2.html
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