SENECA WALLACE vs. TROYMONT SMITH
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Zombo said:
Change "Buckeye" to "Seminole" and you have Charlie Ward. I'm not really impressed with someone's NFL prospectus because they won a Heisman as a dula threat QB. You know the list of heisman-winning NFL Nobodies is as long as your arm.That's absolutely untrue. First of all, I like the Buckeyes. But even if was from a college program I don't like ... say Michigan or USC, I wouldn't hold the fact that he went to school there against him, I'd hold the fact that he is a 6'0 5th rounder who has done nothing to change my perceptions of him against him.
Great college QB. Like the Buckeyes. Love Cleveland. ... don't undestand why anybody would be hot about him as an NFL starter.
The two most over-pimped footbal players on this board are Troy Smith and James Davis. I hope Davis turns into a steal, but I'm not about to say we are all a-ok at RB because we have this injured 6th round pick on the roster, and I'm not about to say we should go out and spend a draft pick on Troy Smith when he clearly is less of a prospect than a guy we already have playing the position.
I don't see how someone would like Smith more than Quinn. or more than a prospect like McCoy, Bradford or Clausen. Or more than a proven NFL guy like Bulger, Delhomme or Mcnabb. I just don't see how he makes us better or more secure at the most important position on the field.
Zombo
My thinking on this is far more simple: The Browns have only 2 QBs on their roster. They probably should go into training camp with at least 4. If Smith could be even third string for the Browns, and it costs us only a 5th rounder, that is fine. I don't know that he would be any worse than someone we could draft to be our 3rd string QB in the 5th round or below.
He is still a baby career wise as an NFL QB. If they got Smith plus got one of those other veteran QBs that are sitting on the scrap heap, that would be fine with me. My thinking is that BQ is our starter, and anything else is just insurance, Smith included.
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Zombo said:
Troy wants to be a Brown. So did Charlie and Brady. And Herbie wants to be a dentist. And Ben wants people to think he is straight.You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes you might find, you get what you need.
We need a Better QB, not a local QB.
Zombo
Zombo, when you look at our history of drafting QB's, and our history of 5th round picks (we got at least 4 this year, and if the one dufus is right, we will end up having a 5th as a compensatory pick), what makes you think anyone we bring in at one of those spots would not be just as valuable as Smith might be? Even if he is only our 2nd string QB, I say spending a 5th on him to see what he has is worth it.
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Zombo said:
Troy wants to be a Brown. So did Charlie and Brady. And Herbie wants to be a dentist. And Ben wants people to think he is straight.You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes you might find, you get what you need.
We need a Better QB, not a local QB.
Zombo
Zombo, when you look at our history of drafting QB's, and our history of 5th round picks (we got at least 4 this year, and if the one dufus is right, we will end up having a 5th as a compensatory pick), what makes you think anyone we bring in at one of those spots would not be just as valuable as Smith might be? Even if he is only our 2nd string QB, I say spending a 5th on him to see what he has is worth it.
Zombo, when you look at our history of drafting QB's, and our history of 5th round picks (we got at least 4 this year, and if the one dufus is right, we will end up having a 5th as a compensatory pick), what makes you think anyone we bring in at one of those spots would not be just as valuable as Smith might be? Even if he is only our 2nd string QB, I say spending a 5th on him to see what he has is worth it.
It's obvious Wallace is viewed as a backup period. If that's the case, they may be looking at making a real impact yet. If not, it would have been neck and neck for Queen and Troymont to start and Holmgren didn't want another QB controversy.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
IMO, we couldn't have both Quinn and Troy. You think the DA versus Quinn flamewars was bad? or Holcolmb versus Couch heated?
Imagine Troy sitting on the bench while Quinn Started. Or Vise Versa.
BTW, I'd be just as cool with bringing back Frye. He's won more than either of those two, hasn't he?
And in draft news, Buckeyes Jake Ballard and Kurt Koleman want to play for hometown franchises too.
Zombo's ripped off Rolling Stone Riff may be most apropo here.
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Zombo said:
Someone got injured, right? Mcnair or Boller or somebody? So then Smith was going to be the placeholder until the green kid from Delaware St. was ready. Smith, got sick, Flacco stepped in and the Ravens won. End of story. 6'6" athlete with lighting arm has led them to playoffs two years in a row and had a season worthy of pro bowl consideration in his second year.I know you set up your first post by admitting the bias, etc ... but c'mon! Do you think there is any other team's message board clamoring for Troy Freaking Smith? It just doesn't matter that he's from Cleveland or Ohio St. I rooted for Frye, I root for Quinn, it's a nice little angle for the Mary Kays of the world to write articles about how they are local products ... but it just doesn't matter. San Francisco didn't care that Montana was a Pittsburgh boy, Green Bay didn't care that Bret Favre was from the bible belt, Indy doesn't give a rat's ass that Peyton is from New Orleans, and Pittsburgh is totally OK that Rapelsburger is from Ohio. Just win. No one cares where you are from.
Smith is a short, 5th round QB, with 2 career starts and very little interest in his abilities outside of Baltimore or your neighborhood. Quinn, is taller, a first-rounder, more experienced, and generally considered more upside. What is the value in bringing in this guy? If you go with Quinn you get a veteran starter and a draft pick to back him up. If you don't go with Quinn you find a veteran starter and draft your QB of the future, you don't chase a 5th round midget hoping to bank your future on him.
And it's not because I'm a Penn St. fan or a Notre Dame fan ... I hated Courtney Brown, I never clamored for Kerry Collins, I've been as hard on Quinn as anybody ... I want winners in Brown & Orange. Don't care where they are from. I don't see Troy Smith as a future NFL star and I doubt anyone who's anyone in the league sees it either. Let him go ... put the Troymont down. Step away from the Troymont.
Zombo
Troy Smith is about 1/2 inch shorter than Steve McNair was. Similar build. Taller than Drew Brees. Would dwarf Sipe or Theisman. Yeah, I get the NFL prototype is a 6'6 guy, but you have to be a freakin giraffe to really see over the offense line. The reason that you don't see many 5'10 to 6'1 QBs in the NFL is at least partially because they don't get the same chances. It's a fact. They aren't drafted high and the teams are not willing to invest the time in them. It's self-fulfilling.
Smith was undefeated as a collegiate over Michigan. But only after he succeeded in a short window to beat out the taller, more prototypical Justin Zwick. He is undefeated as an NFL QB over the Steelers. He was flat out the better QB when he and Quinn met head to head. 400+ yards total offense, 340+ passing. He's an accurate passer with better than average mobility. I'd like to see him stand back to back with Montana or Young. Taller than Garcia, no doubt. All thrived in the San Fransisco version of the WCO that Holmgren grew up in.
Smith's a winner. I'd take him over Tim Hiller or Zach what's his name or John Skelton (a guy with very average numbers at Fordham who pro teams are drooling over because of his prototype size) or whatever QB might be available in the fifth round that will turn out to be a wasted pick.
Wallace is an interesting pick up. Incredible athlete. Don't forget that "The Show" was so intrigued with him as a receiver that he brought in Frye hoping that he could fill the bill of backup to free Wallace. I think he might be a placeholder for a QB they draft. They might yet be willing to bring in an experienced starting QB to make the transition. Wallace provides insurance against desperation, a credible back up until a rook is ready to back up and a potentially productive slot receiver if that's the scenario that works out quickly.
As for the rook, I'll take McCoy with our 3rd round pick . . . the knock on him will be that he's short. Like Smith, though, he's a winner. Something tells me he'd have fewer initial critics. I also might take a flyer on Hall. From where they'll be drafted, though I don't much care for this QB class.
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Zombo, when you look at our history of drafting QB's, and our history of 5th round picks (we got at least 4 this year, and if the one dufus is right, we will end up having a 5th as a compensatory pick), what makes you think anyone we bring in at one of those spots would not be just as valuable as Smith might be? Even if he is only our 2nd string QB, I say spending a 5th on him to see what he has is worth it.
It's obvious Wallace is viewed as a backup period. If that's the case, they may be looking at making a real impact yet. If not, it would have been neck and neck for Queen and Troymont to start and Holmgren didn't want another QB controversy.
It's obvious Wallace is viewed as a backup period. If that's the case, they may be looking at making a real impact yet. If not, it would have been neck and neck for Queen and Troymont to start and Holmgren didn't want another QB controversy.
I think you are wishing.
Add it up my man.
Wallace... hand picked and groomed by Holmgren when at Seattle.....check
Dabol being tutored by Holmgrens right hand man on the WCO.....check
Now we pick up Holmgrens hand picked guy......check
Add in the fact Holmgren said "some fun things" are about to happen....check
I don't know you all that well, but well enough IMO to know you aren't some dumb ass dolt......follow the bouncing ball...Wallace is the guy.
Holmgren feels the guy is ready to take a big step....Wallace isn't backing up anything.
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Wallace isnt so bad. Yeah he's a Walrus guy but that's a good thing. Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good? I dont think he would bring in a guy unless he will help us. And I dont think Heckert and more importantly, Mangini would allow him to bring in a guy who would hurt the team he's trying to coach.
Wallace isnt so bad. Yeah he's a Walrus guy but that's a good thing. Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good? I dont think he would bring in a guy unless he will help us. And I dont think Heckert and more importantly, Mangini would allow him to bring in a guy who would hurt the team he's trying to coach.
Which good QB's did he acutally pick overrulling the consensus of the draft team....................Please say it
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As long as Smith isn't wearing a Yankees hat on his punk ass head I'd rather have him.
http://theassociation.blogs.com/nfl/images...79283king_1.jpg
WSS
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It's obvious Wallace is viewed as a backup period. If that's the case, they may be looking at making a real impact yet. If not, it would have been neck and neck for Queen and Troymont to start and Holmgren didn't want another QB controversy.
I think you are wishing.
Add it up my man.
Wallace... hand picked and groomed by Holmgren when at Seattle.....check
Dabol being tutored by Holmgrens right hand man on the WCO.....check
Now we pick up Holmgrens hand picked guy......check
Add in the fact Holmgren said "some fun things" are about to happen....check
I don't know you all that well, but well enough IMO to know you aren't some dumb ass dolt......follow the bouncing ball...Wallace is the guy.
Holmgren feels the guy is ready to take a big step....Wallace isn't backing up anything.
I think you are wishing.
Add it up my man.
Wallace... hand picked and groomed by Holmgren when at Seattle.....check
Dabol being tutored by Holmgrens right hand man on the WCO.....check
Now we pick up Holmgrens hand picked guy......check
Add in the fact Holmgren said "some fun things" are about to happen....check
I don't know you all that well, but well enough IMO to know you aren't some dumb ass dolt......follow the bouncing ball...Wallace is the guy.
Holmgren feels the guy is ready to take a big step....Wallace isn't backing up anything.
Ballpeen, I don't disagree with your post but I think we're taking a QB in the third round to groom. Wallace may start here but Holmgren needs some insurance.
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Wallace isnt so bad. Yeah he's a Walrus guy but that's a good thing. Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good? I dont think he would bring in a guy unless he will help us. And I dont think Heckert and more importantly, Mangini would allow him to bring in a guy who would hurt the team he's trying to coach.
Can you name one QB he ever picked that wasnt good?
When he was head coach in Green Bay, the Packers drafted Jay Barker (Round 5, 1995), Kyle Wachholtz (Round 7, 1996), Ronnie McAda (Round 7, 1997). They also drafted Ty Detmer (Round 9, 1992), Mark Brunell (Round 5, 1993), Matt Hasselbeck (Round 6, 1998). These were in the Ron Wolf days.
When Holmgren was head coach at Seattle, quarterbacks drafted by the Seahawks included Brock Huard (Round 3, 1999), Josh Booty (Round 6, 2001), Jeff Kelly (Round 7, 2002), Seneca Wallace (Round 4, 2003) and David Greene (Round 3, 2005). All five were βhis guys.β
I like Wallace. More than most here. Holgren ascribed to the Ron Wolf theory of take a flyer on a guy every year and see if you catch lightning in a bottle. Third round picks on Huard and Greene were Frye-esque. And then he traded for Charlie Frye in the flesh.
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get em Riff/hoorta. you think they'd at least TRY to camouflage...HARVEY MILK?!? oh yeah olympics that blends right in.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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