The health care bill explained
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It's a farce dude....most of the people making in the higher end don't pay that much now.
In time employers are going to figure out it is cheaper to pay the fine then it is to offer insurance....so the top end earners....88K a year will be paying much more for insurance.
Sorry....88K is shit for a family of 4 and in no way is it in what I consider the elite class.
You people make me sick.
You need to set your sights higher then a measly 88K per year household income.
A person making minimum wage and working 50 hours a week make nearly half the 44k figure.
This is the fleecing of the middle class by the FREELOADER class.
It is also going to encourage even more freeloaders. Once people figure out if they make more and have to pay more, the morons are going to sit on their ass.. Subsidized housing and foodstamps prove that...if people start getting close to making too much money, they quit long enough to keep the freebies coming in.
As long as the Dems give stuff to the morons of the country, you'll stay in control a long, long time.
So what's your interest in the game....are you young and dumb or are you getting something??
In time employers are going to figure out it is cheaper to pay the fine then it is to offer insurance....so the top end earners....88K a year will be paying much more for insurance.
BINGO. I just saw my neighbor at Giant Eagle, he is nurse for the Cleveland Clinic. That is exactly what he and some doctors speculated, he foresaw this happening. Even where he works, lol! At the Cleveland Clinic! WHAT????
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
Oh, Heck....I know you aren't dumb, and don't know how old you are, nor care.....just keeping it real.....sorry if i insulted you...I am just fired up over this...this is the beginning of the end for this country....we're done.
We don't have a smart population as a whole, we don't have enough jobs to support the population, and we have a class of population who has been provided for for so long they can't provide for themself.
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Oh, Heck....I know you aren't dumb, and don't know how old you are, nor care.....just keeping it real.....sorry if i insulted you...I am just fired up over this...this is the beginning of the end for this country....we're done.
We don't have a smart population as a whole, we don't have enough jobs to support the population, and we have a class of population who has been provided for for so long they can't provide for themself.
Oh, Heck....I know you aren't dumb, and don't know how old you are, nor care.....just keeping it real.....sorry if i insulted you...I am just fired up over this...this is the beginning of the end for this country....we're done.
We don't have a smart population as a whole, we don't have enough jobs to support the population, and we have a class of population who has been provided for for so long they can't provide for themself.
I really think this discussion has been somewhat civil today. I think that people on both sides are confused and concerned. I think Heck has been taking it in strides and for the most part everyone else has been giving some good input without throwing the Obama is a Retard card out there. And I am sure Heck will agree, all opinions are good because it gets to root of the matter. It's when individuals throw the "me not like Obama card" and don't speak there mind on the issue. It's done and voted on, let's get over it and discuss the issue at hand.
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In time employers are going to figure out it is cheaper to pay the fine then it is to offer insurance....so the top end earners....88K a year will be paying much more for insurance.
BINGO. I just saw my neighbor at Giant Eagle, he is nurse for the Cleveland Clinic. That is exactly what he and some doctors speculated, he foresaw this happening. Even where he works, lol! At the Cleveland Clinic! WHAT????
BINGO. I just saw my neighbor at Giant Eagle, he is nurse for the Cleveland Clinic. That is exactly what he and some doctors speculated, he foresaw this happening. Even where he works, lol! At the Cleveland Clinic! WHAT????
It's why the fine is so low. In short order everybody is going to have to be on the plan so the people making a modest living of 40-50K can support the masses.
250K isn't exorbitant IMO...and they get hit with another 3.8% just so the slugs down the road can be insured while they watch Oprah during the day.
You get the insurers out of the mix, then the government can set fees that MDs charge.
20 years from now we won't have nearly as many MDs in this country...the work won't be worth the pay.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Profits will supersede, when it all boils down, so will we see more factories close up and go to foreign countries?
The progressives are not done yet, this is just one step of legislation/programs to be forced be upon the american people against their will.
At the present time, we have seen how progressive politicians will employ their own ideology over practicality.
In the next few months we will see Cap n Tax, Immigration reform, Gun control. The progressives twisted the arms of all of those in the democratic party to get HC reform passed. All you had to do is look at the face of Stupak as he sold out America, and how he sold out his vote along with the supposed other pro life democrats to see what is going on here.
So Heck is following his marching orders and showing everyone all of the Free Candy that we will be getting! Hoping to sway public opibion into excepting that the will of the people was not met.
And you want to know how this will effect jobs? Just wait they are not done yet. And how long will it be before we are enslaved to the government to pay nothing more than Higher taxes while the jobs will be leaving.
So lets here more about all the free candy!!!!!!! And while your at it tells us how will it be paid for. May I remind you this is a 1 Trillion dollar spending law!
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Actually an eager 22 year old with a degree at 22K trumps a 48 year old rustbucket making 50K.
Sad but true.
WSS
It depends on the industry. Especially those that live and die by mistakes.
It depends on the industry. Especially those that live and die by mistakes.
Sure I suppose so.
Often middle agers are set in their ways.
And often not as eager to put in a 14 hour day.
Or as willing to learn the new systems.
Or as hip to the latest technology.
Or as willing to serve a 35 year old manager.
Or work for a 24 year olds pay.
And more apt to get sick and cost the company money.
But of course there are places you wouldn't want a newcomer.
But you see a lotof fiftysomethings looking for positions.
I've been fortunate but it isn't gonna last forever.
WSS
WSS[/b]
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
BINGO. I just saw my neighbor at Giant Eagle, he is nurse for the Cleveland Clinic. That is exactly what he and some doctors speculated, he foresaw this happening. Even where he works, lol! At the Cleveland Clinic! WHAT????
It's why the fine is so low. In short order everybody is going to have to be on the plan so the people making a modest living of 40-50K can support the masses.
250K isn't exorbitant IMO...and they get hit with another 3.8% just so the slugs down the road can be insured while they watch Oprah during the day.
You get the insurers out of the mix, then the government can set fees that MDs charge.
20 years from now we won't have nearly as many MDs in this country...the work won't be worth the pay.
You get the insurers out of the mix, then the government can set fees that MDs charge.
You know this sort of screws doctors, in a general sense. Ok people say doctors are not going to take it and up and move shop. Where the f*ck are they going to practice? India?
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
It depends on the industry. Especially those that live and die by mistakes.
Sure I suppose so.
Often middle agers are set in their ways.
And often not as eager to put in a 14 hour day.
Or as willing to learn the new systems.
Or as hip to the latest technology.
Or as willing to serve a 35 year old manager.
Or work for a 24 year olds pay.
And more apt to get sick and cost the company money.
But of course there are places you wouldn't want a newcomer.
But you see a lotof fiftysomethings looking for positions.
I've been fortunate but it isn't gonna last forever.
WSS
WSS[/b]
And more apt to get sick and cost the company money.
Trust me I see some law suits coming on this.
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You know this sort of screws doctors, in a general sense. Ok people say doctors are not going to take it and up and move shop. Where the f*ck are they going to practice? India?
Up and comers won't go in to medicine. Why be the best and brightest, spend 4 years in college, 4 years in medical school, amassing maybe 80K student loans, then spend 4 years as a intern working 80-90 hours a week for minimal pay, then finally get your own practice at age 31-32 to make 70K a year??
Only a dummy would do that. MD's might be kind of goofy in the social sense, but they aren't stupid. If they can get through med school and the rigors of training, they can find other ways to make modest pay at far less cost....cost in many ways.
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3.21.10.....now and forever more, Dependence Day.
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This kind of rhetoric is going to seem strange in a few years. It always does.
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It's also a bit entertaining, since it seems many of you in here are on, or have recently been on, or would like to be some form of government assistance. Some have even received government-run health care.
But don't let that stop you. Lousy freeloaders.
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It's also a bit entertaining, since it seems many of you in here are on, or have recently been on, or would like to be some form of government assistance. Some have even received government-run health care.
But don't let that stop you. Lousy freeloaders.
It's also a bit entertaining, since it seems many of you in here are on, or have recently been on, or would like to be some form of government assistance. Some have even received government-run health care.
But don't let that stop you. Lousy freeloaders.
Hey f*ck you Heck, lol. I said it from the start I am not being objective. And as I said before I am not being cynical, I am here for the facts, not some childish sociological experiment on what side of who I "stand" for.
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Just a question.
So the fine is $650(round number) if you don't carry insurance. The cost of a plan might be $2000 or more a year.
What is to keep people from deciding to just pay the fine and then signing up for insurance once things start to go wrong??
With pre-existing conditions now out of the mix for being denied insurance, you can just sign up when you get pregnant or show some signs of a problem.
People won't be gambling they will never get sick....they are just gambling they won't get hit with something that strikes immediately....which is the case most of the time.
Most accidents are auto or work related, so your auto insurance will cover that, and you have a 50% shot it is the others persons fault, and your employers insurance will cover a work related accident.
Expect premiums much higher than projected.
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It's also a bit entertaining, since it seems many of you in here are on, or have recently been on, or would like to be some form of government assistance. Some have even received government-run health care.
But don't let that stop you. Lousy freeloaders.
It's also a bit entertaining, since it seems many of you in here are on, or have recently been on, or would like to be some form of government assistance. Some have even received government-run health care.
But don't let that stop you. Lousy freeloaders.
I get Tricare, but I EARNED it through my career in the military. There is a big difference between being a non-working slug wanting everything handed to you and earning a benefit through years of hard service.
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T, please be objective here, how does this effect your business? It's done with, let's speak business here, how does this help you and people looking for jobs and your hiring outlook.
T, please be objective here, how does this effect your business? It's done with, let's speak business here, how does this help you and people looking for jobs and your hiring outlook.
Here's one possibility.
You own a business that employs less than the required number to be forced to pay for a policy.
You may well balk at exceeding that limit.
Also is there any provision that prevents the employer from taking a higher percent from the employees pay for it?
WSS
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This doesn't adversely affect jobs and hiring... how?
not good.
btw, Heck, we all PAY INTO SS. We EARN the SS by PAYING INTO IT.
that's a cheap try at "moral equivalency".
Happens all the time with some people...
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BINGO. I just saw my neighbor at Giant Eagle, he is nurse for the Cleveland Clinic. That is exactly what he and some doctors speculated, he foresaw this happening. Even where he works, lol! At the Cleveland Clinic! WHAT????
It's why the fine is so low. In short order everybody is going to have to be on the plan so the people making a modest living of 40-50K can support the masses.
250K isn't exorbitant IMO...and they get hit with another 3.8% just so the slugs down the road can be insured while they watch Oprah during the day.
You get the insurers out of the mix, then the government can set fees that MDs charge.
20 years from now we won't have nearly as many MDs in this country...the work won't be worth the pay.
It's why the fine is so low. In short order everybody is going to have to be on the plan so the people making a modest living of 40-50K can support the masses.
250K isn't exorbitant IMO...and they get hit with another 3.8% just so the slugs down the road can be insured while they watch Oprah during the day.
You get the insurers out of the mix, then the government can set fees that MDs charge.
20 years from now we won't have nearly as many MDs in this country...the work won't be worth the pay.
Two things fer certain insurance premiums are going to go up- can't deny coverage to seriously disabled kids- great for the families with newborns with Down's or other serious birth defects that are going to cost millions over the kids lifetime. Actually, I don't mind that part of of the "reform" at all.
What does bother me is Obamahood robbing from the rich to give to the poor. If you're really loaded, say making a million or more, most of your income isn't salary- it's investment income- and the Dems just decided you need to give 3.8% of it for the good of the country. I'll take some consolation that Socialists like Michael Moore and his uber-rich Hollywood cronies just took a major one op the tailpipe to further their agenda.
And the funding for this government expansion (as I said elsewhere) is pure government crackpipe economics. Cutting Medicare by billions ain't happening- the AARP Grey Panthers will guarantee that. + the Dems will never, ever let their working UAW bretheren pay a dime of tax on the gold plated insurance plans they now have.
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I may add this in a couple of threads.....it is a good read IMO
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...1919432770.html
By ORRIN G. HATCH, J. KENNETH BLACKWELL AND KENNETH A. KLUKOWSKI
President Obama's health-care bill is now moving toward final passage. The policy issues may be coming to an end, but the legal issues are certain to continue because key provisions of this dangerous legislation are unconstitutional. Legally speaking, this legislation creates a target-rich environment. We will focus on three of its more glaring constitutional defects.
First, the Constitution does not give Congress the power to require that Americans purchase health insurance. Congress must be able to point to at least one of its powers listed in the Constitution as the basis of any legislation it passes. None of those powers justifies the individual insurance mandate. Congress's powers to tax and spend do not apply because the mandate neither taxes nor spends. The only other option is Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce.
Congress has many times stretched this power to the breaking point, exceeding even the expanded version of the commerce power established by the Supreme Court since the Great Depression. It is one thing, however, for Congress to regulate economic activity in which individuals choose to engage; it is another to require that individuals engage in such activity. That is not a difference in degree, but instead a difference in kind. It is a line that Congress has never crossed and the courts have never sanctioned.
In fact, the Supreme Court in United States v. Lopez (1995) rejected a version of the commerce power so expansive that it would leave virtually no activities by individuals that Congress could not regulate. By requiring Americans to use their own money to purchase a particular good or service, Congress would be doing exactly what the court said it could not do.
Some have argued that Congress may pass any legislation that it believes will serve the "general welfare." Those words appear in Article I of the Constitution, but they do not create a free-floating power for Congress simply to go forth and legislate well. Rather, the general welfare clause identifies the purpose for which Congress may spend money. The individual mandate tells Americans how they must spend the money Congress has not taken from them and has nothing to do with congressional spending.
A second constitutional defect of the Reid bill passed in the Senate involves the deals he cut to secure the votes of individual senators. Some of those deals do involve spending programs because they waive certain states' obligation to contribute to the Medicaid program. This selective spending targeted at certain states runs afoul of the general welfare clause. The welfare it serves is instead very specific and has been dubbed "cash for cloture" because it secured the 60 votes the majority needed to end debate and pass this legislation.
A third constitutional defect in this ObamaCare legislation is its command that states establish such things as benefit exchanges, which will require state legislation and regulations. This is not a condition for receiving federal funds, which would still leave some kind of choice to the states. No, this legislation requires states to establish these exchanges or says that the Secretary of Health and Human Services will step in and do it for them. It renders states little more than subdivisions of the federal government.
This violates the letter, the spirit, and the interpretation of our federal-state form of government. Some may have come to consider federalism an archaic annoyance, perhaps an amusing topic for law-school seminars but certainly not a substantive rule for structuring government. But in New York v. United States (1992) and Printz v. United States (1997), the Supreme Court struck down two laws on the grounds that the Constitution forbids the federal government from commandeering any branch of state government to administer a federal program. That is, by drafting and by deliberate design, exactly what this legislation would do.
The federal government may exercise only the powers granted to it or denied to the states. The states may do everything else. This is why, for example, states may have authority to require individuals to purchase health insurance but the federal government does not. It is also the reason states may require that individuals purchase car insurance before choosing to drive a car, but the federal government may not require all individuals to purchase health insurance.
This hardly exhausts the list of constitutional problems with this legislation, which would take the federal government into uncharted political and legal territory. Analysts, scholars and litigators are just beginning to examine the issues we have raised and other issues that may well lead to future litigation.
America's founders intended the federal government to have limited powers and that the states have an independent sovereign place in our system of government. The Obama/Reid/Pelosi legislation to take control of the American health-care system is the most sweeping and intrusive federal program ever devised. If the federal government can do this, then it can do anything, and the limits on government power that our liberty requires will be more myth than reality.
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