Big Ben Accused of Rape... again
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Sivlerback DPOY said:
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
Sorry but you decided to punt on 1st and ten.
You should get docked points for even quoting Ocho Cinco, no one cares what comes out of his flapping gums or what he thinks and thats is his Opinion not a fact... get it right.
Roger is the law of the land now if he or whoever else reviews the games and they feel it deserves a fine then they get fined.
Your Qb is a serial rapist
Your team is on steroids
And Ward is overrated and a dirty player.
Sorry but you decided to punt on 1st and ten.
You should get docked points for even quoting Ocho Cinco, no one cares what comes out of his flapping gums or what he thinks and thats is his Opinion not a fact... get it right.
exactly right!!
Roger is the law of the land now if he or whoever else reviews the games and they feel it deserves a fine then they get fined.
Your Qb is a serial rapist
hey i hate their team but i wouldn't put that label on him......yet.
Your team is on steroids
proven fact!
And Ward is overrated and a dirty player.
oh hells yes!! he's a PUNK!!
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Are you going to have this many excuses when the Steelers go 7-9 next year?
The league has labeled Ward a dirty player with their fines against him.
His peers have voted him the dirtiest player in the league.
Walk, talk, duck, quack.
Only you don't seem to get it.
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.
Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
Sivlerback DPOY said:
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
Here is a clue for you: Perception is reality. Being called a "dirty player" is a simply a reflection of his perception by his peers. You are what you eat. He got his reputation amongst his peers by his constant blindsiding blocks....whether they were technically legal or not, that is what his fellow players view him as, a blindsiding cheapshot. The league backed up their view apparently with their fines....and ergo, my view, I guess. Though, my view is irrelevent and isn't really my view. I am only reporting what was voted by his peers, so my view doesn't need backing up. I got it from them. If you want it backed up, go ask them..
And no, I am not making any predictions about the Steelers record. (Only that if in fact it is 7-9, that you will make excuses for it)
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Question?
When are the stoolers fan shops going to start selling Big Gay rape Kits for the kiddos. Maybe they can get Big Gay to autograph them or add a dna kit.
Question?
When are the stoolers fan shops going to start selling Big Gay rape Kits for the kiddos. Maybe they can get Big Gay to autograph them or add a dna kit.
LOL... You`re Retarded !!
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
Sivlerback DPOY said:
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
I’ve been staying out of this conversation, because until now, it wasn’t worth my time. But here’s the deal…
When players are polled, and certain players are targeted as being dirty, but others aren’t, by a majority of players, then something has to be said to that. Otherwise, every aggressive and blocking receiver will also be targeted.
Every offensive lineman who chop blocks will be targeted.
But they aren’t. Only a select few players out of the almost 2,000 players on active rosters are targeted.
Ward happens to be one of them.
What more proof do you want?
If you are looking for clear, forensic evidence, you’ll be looking for a long time, and you will also be deluding yourself to the fact that Ward is dirty. You may like it, cause he’s on your team. I assure you if there was a Brown who was dirty, but he destroyed a Steeler, I’d enjoy it too.
Hockey fans love their own thugs, but hate other team’s thugs.
Fact is, Ward is a thug, but he’s yours.
I’ve been staying out of this conversation, because until now, it wasn’t worth my time. But here’s the deal…
When players are polled, and certain players are targeted as being dirty, but others aren’t, by a majority of players, then something has to be said to that. Otherwise, every aggressive and blocking receiver will also be targeted.
Every offensive lineman who chop blocks will be targeted.
But they aren’t. Only a select few players out of the almost 2,000 players on active rosters are targeted.
Ward happens to be one of them.
What more proof do you want?
If you are looking for clear, forensic evidence, you’ll be looking for a long time, and you will also be deluding yourself to the fact that Ward is dirty. You may like it, cause he’s on your team. I assure you if there was a Brown who was dirty, but he destroyed a Steeler, I’d enjoy it too.
Hockey fans love their own thugs, but hate other team’s thugs.
Fact is, Ward is a thug, but he’s yours.
Fighting is condoned in hockey, just like Ward's blocks are in the NFL.
That's part of my point. O-lineman aren't singled out for chop blocking becuase chop blocking is allowed by rule. Ward is singled out for taking actions that were also legal. That's not being fair toward Ward. Defensive back's are used to lighting up recievers, but they don't like it when the tables are turned. Linebackers like lining up to bull rush lineman and crush a qb who can't see it coming, but they don't like it when the tables are turned.
Your opinion and the opinions of many NFL players (mosty defenders) may be, and is, that the type of hits Ward likes to make are dirty. I'm not going to knock someone for their opinion. But don't call Ward dirty for playing by the rules. That's an oxymoron and it's not his fault the rules have been that way since the beginingn of the NFL. You can make they point that the rulebook is allowing dangerous hits and that it should be changed, (Although, I make the case Rivers is the only player to ever sustian serious injury from those types of hits) but don't blame certian players for playing by the rules all players agreed to play by.
Of course, I'm more inclined to defend Ward as he is a Steeler, but I wouldn't call a Brown dirty for making a legal hit....Like McGinest's hit on Ben. I expect to hear trash talk about Steelers, but don't think Steeler fans will let it go unchallenged.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
Sivlerback DPOY said:
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
Here is a clue for you: Perception is reality. Being called a "dirty player" is a simply a reflection of his perception by his peers. You are what you eat. He got his reputation amongst his peers by his constant blindsiding blocks....whether they were technically legal or not, that is what his fellow players view him as, a blindsiding cheapshot. The league backed up their view apparently with their fines....and ergo, my view, I guess. Though, my view is irrelevent and isn't really my view. I am only reporting what was voted by his peers, so my view doesn't need backing up. I got it from them. If you want it backed up, go ask them..
And no, I am not making any predictions about the Steelers record. (Only that if in fact it is 7-9, that you will make excuses for it)
Here is a clue for you: Perception is reality. Being called a "dirty player" is a simply a reflection of his perception by his peers. You are what you eat. He got his reputation amongst his peers by his constant blindsiding blocks....whether they were technically legal or not, that is what his fellow players view him as, a blindsiding cheapshot. The league backed up their view apparently with their fines....and ergo, my view, I guess. Though, my view is irrelevent and isn't really my view. I am only reporting what was voted by his peers, so my view doesn't need backing up. I got it from them. If you want it backed up, go ask them..
And no, I am not making any predictions about the Steelers record. (Only that if in fact it is 7-9, that you will make excuses for it)
The players are wrong to blame Ward for doing what the rulebook allows him to do. When they signed their contracts they agreed to follow all league and team rules on and off the field. If they had a problem with the rule then, they should have brought it up when they signed their contract. If they had a problem with it after they realized Ward doesn't hesitate to hit them just as they aim to hit him, they should have spoke out against the rule. Ward never complained about another player for playing by the rules, other players should do the same for Ward. Ward is a scapegoat for rules players didn't like, despite agreeing to play by.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
Here is a clue for you: Perception is reality. Being called a "dirty player" is a simply a reflection of his perception by his peers. You are what you eat. He got his reputation amongst his peers by his constant blindsiding blocks....whether they were technically legal or not, that is what his fellow players view him as, a blindsiding cheapshot. The league backed up their view apparently with their fines....and ergo, my view, I guess. Though, my view is irrelevent and isn't really my view. I am only reporting what was voted by his peers, so my view doesn't need backing up. I got it from them. If you want it backed up, go ask them..
And no, I am not making any predictions about the Steelers record. (Only that if in fact it is 7-9, that you will make excuses for it)
The players are wrong to blame Ward for doing what the rulebook allows him to do. When they signed their contracts they agreed to follow all league and team rules on and off the field. If they had a problem with the rule then, they should have brought it up when they signed their contract. If they had a problem with it after they realized Ward doesn't hesitate to hit them just as they aim to hit him, they should have spoke out against the rule. Ward never complained about another player for playing by the rules, other players should do the same for Ward. Ward is a scapegoat for rules players didn't like, despite agreeing to play by.
Sivlerback DPOY said:
The players are wrong to blame Ward for doing what the rulebook allows him to do. When they signed their contracts they agreed to follow all league and team rules on and off the field. If they had a problem with the rule then, they should have brought it up when they signed their contract. If they had a problem with it after they realized Ward doesn't hesitate to hit them just as they aim to hit him, they should have spoke out against the rule. Ward never complained about another player for playing by the rules, other players should do the same for Ward. Ward is a scapegoat for rules players didn't like, despite agreeing to play by.Hines will be a 1st Ballot Hall of Fame player. Bitch all you want , it just more sour Grapes. You dont become a winner in this world by being a Puss. My guess is Mike Holmgren will be telling the Browns something similar to that. As my Platoon Drill Sgt. in Boot Camp used to say 100 times a day, "Get Tough or DIE Delta Company , Get tough or DIE " Hines Ward would have been Loved by Sgt. Terpin.
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Sivlerback DPOY said:
They aren't excuses; they are the factual reasons.Yeah, you've said Ward is a dirty player over and over. I know your opinion. Now it's time to back it up. I explained why many players have targetted Ward with their vote. I have quoted Chad OchoCinco defending Ward actions, most specifically his hit on Rivers. I have pointed out the hypocrisy of Goodell's fines. I am opened minded on any topic, just prove where my logic is flawed and your is correct. If you can put logic to Goodell's fines ( as I explained it the previous post) I will adopt your opinion. You control the ball, can you put it through the hoop or will it end up in the crowd?
Shall I mark you down as predicting a 7-9 for the Steelers next year?
Sorry but you decided to punt on 1st and ten.
You should get docked points for even quoting Ocho Cinco, no one cares what comes out of his flapping gums or what he thinks and thats is his Opinion not a fact... get it right.
Roger is the law of the land now if he or whoever else reviews the games and they feel it deserves a fine then they get fined.
Your Qb is a serial rapist
Your team is on steroids
And Ward is overrated and a dirty player.
Sorry but you decided to punt on 1st and ten.
You should get docked points for even quoting Ocho Cinco, no one cares what comes out of his flapping gums or what he thinks and thats is his Opinion not a fact... get it right.
Roger is the law of the land now if he or whoever else reviews the games and they feel it deserves a fine then they get fined.
Your Qb is a serial rapist
Your team is on steroids
And Ward is overrated and a dirty player.
Isn't it just a bunch of player's opinions that Ward is dirty? Not to mention a Bengal is most likely to have biased in defense of Rivers, yet still sides with Ward.
But like I have made very clear before, Goodell has been extremely inconsistant when it comes to fining players. Ward's hit on Rivers didn't draw a fine, but other hits when the defender could see Ward taking a 5 yard head start at him that resulted in no contact from Ward's helmet has drwan fines before. How is anyone supposed to know what is acceptable and what is not? ......I'll answer that....Ward could (a.) ask Goodell for an explaination (b.) reference the rulebook......Ward did both. Goodell refused to clearify what he will fine and what he sees as okay.....The rulebook didn't have anything making what Ward was doing fineable or flaggable.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
Sorry but you decided to punt on 1st and ten.
You should get docked points for even quoting Ocho Cinco, no one cares what comes out of his flapping gums or what he thinks and thats is his Opinion not a fact... get it right.
Roger is the law of the land now if he or whoever else reviews the games and they feel it deserves a fine then they get fined.
Your Qb is a serial rapist
Your team is on steroids
And Ward is overrated and a dirty player.
Isn't it just a bunch of player's opinions that Ward is dirty? Not to mention a Bengal is most likely to have biased in defense of Rivers, yet still sides with Ward.
But like I have made very clear before, Goodell has been extremely inconsistant when it comes to fining players. Ward's hit on Rivers didn't draw a fine, but other hits when the defender could see Ward taking a 5 yard head start at him that resulted in no contact from Ward's helmet has drwan fines before. How is anyone supposed to know what is acceptable and what is not? ......I'll answer that....Ward could (a.) ask Goodell for an explaination (b.) reference the rulebook......Ward did both. Goodell refused to clearify what he will fine and what he sees as okay.....The rulebook didn't have anything making what Ward was doing fineable or flaggable.
Sivlerback DPOY said:
Isn't it just a bunch of player's opinions that Ward is dirty? Not to mention a Bengal is most likely to have biased in defense of Rivers, yet still sides with Ward.But like I have made very clear before, Goodell has been extremely inconsistant when it comes to fining players. Ward's hit on Rivers didn't draw a fine, but other hits when the defender could see Ward taking a 5 yard head start at him that resulted in no contact from Ward's helmet has drwan fines before. How is anyone supposed to know what is acceptable and what is not? ......I'll answer that....Ward could (a.) ask Goodell for an explaination (b.) reference the rulebook......Ward did both. Goodell refused to clearify what he will fine and what he sees as okay.....The rulebook didn't have anything making what Ward was doing fineable or flaggable.
SOUR GRAPES... I will just Chuckle when Hines strolls into the HOF in Canton before a Mass of Fans clad in Black and Gold. (ROAR)
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
Just to move this back on topic, the police request for DNA has been withdrawn, meaning that there was either no identifiable dna to be compared to, or something else has closed that door of inquiry...Any thoughts on that? Under the table payoff maybe?
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Looks like Ben is innocent...chec out kdka.com and read the latest on Ben.....sry....I'm on my blackberry and can't post link...The accuser will not talk to police concerning the case anymore...Looks like she is a liar and afraid of getting into trouble.
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Looks like Ben is innocent...chec out kdka.com and read the latest on Ben.....sry....I'm on my blackberry and can't post link...The accuser will not talk to police concerning the case anymore...Looks like she is a liar and afraid of getting into trouble.
Looks like Ben is innocent...chec out kdka.com and read the latest on Ben.....sry....I'm on my blackberry and can't post link...The accuser will not talk to police concerning the case anymore...Looks like she is a liar and afraid of getting into trouble.
If this is true She got some $$$ Then. I am a Steeler fan , but its the same as Kobe. Cash will stifle up someone , and especially if that was the intention from jump street ( Yes of Naieve Haters , it could be a well played move by a smart 20 yr old) .
And no offense but IF You are a girl and willfully enter a Ladies room with a Man , in front of 2 off duty Police officers. Hard to Prove some kind of assault. He wasn't going to provide moral support while she battled constipation. Come on wake up oh sleepers and dreamers.
http://kdka.com/sports/Ben.Roethlisberger.....2.1587357.html
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Zombo said:
Looks like the Rooney's paid off the witness. The good news is that they probably had to dig deep into the Ref fund so this could be another down year in the Burgh.Zombo
dammit Zombo...props for being the master of inflammatory remarks
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Might be a few less phantom holding calls against Roid Monk this year.
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Just to move this back on topic, the police request for DNA has been withdrawn, meaning that there was either no identifiable dna to be compared to, or something else has closed that door of inquiry...Any thoughts on that? Under the table payoff maybe?
Just to move this back on topic, the police request for DNA has been withdrawn, meaning that there was either no identifiable dna to be compared to, or something else has closed that door of inquiry...Any thoughts on that? Under the table payoff maybe?
Sexual assault is different than rape in that it doesn't have to be sex, just a sexual act. DNA probably can't be collected to prove the act they are accusing him of.
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You boys see this? Looks like hush money hard at work.
NFL.com Wire Reports
Police haven't been able to re-interview Ben Roethlisberger's accuser in a Georgia sexual-assault case, Pittsburgh television station KDKA reported Wednesday, citing sources close to the investigation.
KDKA reported that the 20-year-old female college student has declined to speak with investigators since the night of the incident and skipped a scheduled meeting last week. One source told KDKA that the investigation appears to have hit a brick wall.
More on Roethlisberger
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said Monday that plans to soon meet with
Ben Roethlisberger because "I am concerned that Ben continues to put himself in this position." More ...
» Tomlin says he talks with Big Ben daily
The news came one day after the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported that Roethlisberger wouldn't be required to provide a DNA sample to Georgia authorities.
Ed Garland, Roethlisberger's attorney, told The Associated Press on Tuesday night that officials withdrew the request a week ago. He declined to comment on why.
Roethlisberger is accused of sexually assaulting the woman in a Milledgeville, Ga., nightclub in the early hours of March 5.
Roethlisberger also is facing a lawsuit in Nevada after a woman accused him of raping her in 2008 at a Lake Tahoe hotel. Roethlisberger also denies that allegation and has sued for counter-damages.
Roethlisberger hasn't been charged in either case, although the most recent accusation is still under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Look, she is starting to get the picture that this case will be very stressful and difficult to battle a high profile star who can afford the best legal counsel. It is a shame because WE ALL KNOW DAMN WELL that he assaulted her in some way, but she seems unwilling to go through it, probably taking a settlement instead. Unfortunately money wins the battle and squelches the truth too often.
Ben is a flat-out dick, no question about it. He works hard at getting under-aged girls drunk and hope his fame carries him the rest of the way "IN".
He should be ashamed to call himself a Christian(which I have seen him do, at least implicitly).
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I’ve been staying out of this conversation, because until now, it wasn’t worth my time. But here’s the deal…
When players are polled, and certain players are targeted as being dirty, but others aren’t, by a majority of players, then something has to be said to that. Otherwise, every aggressive and blocking receiver will also be targeted.
Every offensive lineman who chop blocks will be targeted.
But they aren’t. Only a select few players out of the almost 2,000 players on active rosters are targeted.
Ward happens to be one of them.
What more proof do you want?
If you are looking for clear, forensic evidence, you’ll be looking for a long time, and you will also be deluding yourself to the fact that Ward is dirty. You may like it, cause he’s on your team. I assure you if there was a Brown who was dirty, but he destroyed a Steeler, I’d enjoy it too.
Hockey fans love their own thugs, but hate other team’s thugs.
Fact is, Ward is a thug, but he’s yours.
Fighting is condoned in hockey, just like Ward's blocks are in the NFL.
That's part of my point. O-lineman aren't singled out for chop blocking becuase chop blocking is allowed by rule. Ward is singled out for taking actions that were also legal. That's not being fair toward Ward. Defensive back's are used to lighting up recievers, but they don't like it when the tables are turned. Linebackers like lining up to bull rush lineman and crush a qb who can't see it coming, but they don't like it when the tables are turned.
Your opinion and the opinions of many NFL players (mosty defenders) may be, and is, that the type of hits Ward likes to make are dirty. I'm not going to knock someone for their opinion. But don't call Ward dirty for playing by the rules. That's an oxymoron and it's not his fault the rules have been that way since the beginingn of the NFL. You can make they point that the rulebook is allowing dangerous hits and that it should be changed, (Although, I make the case Rivers is the only player to ever sustian serious injury from those types of hits) but don't blame certian players for playing by the rules all players agreed to play by.
Of course, I'm more inclined to defend Ward as he is a Steeler, but I wouldn't call a Brown dirty for making a legal hit....Like McGinest's hit on Ben. I expect to hear trash talk about Steelers, but don't think Steeler fans will let it go unchallenged.
Sivlerback DPOY said:
That's part of my point. O-lineman aren't singled out for chop blocking becuase chop blocking is allowed by rule.Like always your wrong again. It's a 15 yard penalty.
Do you always make stuff up as you go?
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Sivlerback DPOY said:
That's part of my point. O-lineman aren't singled out for chop blocking becuase chop blocking is allowed by rule.Like always your wrong again. It's a 15 yard penalty.
Do you always make stuff up as you go?
Like always your wrong again. It's a 15 yard penalty.
Do you always make stuff up as you go?
You are only partially right, but only because of semantics.
Cut blocks (where an offensive player blocks a defensive player below the waist, often in a diving fashion) are legal. Cut blocks are often called chop blocks, even when legal.
The “Chop Block” penalty is called when doing an cut block illegally. An illegal cut block is performed when doing a cut block on a defender that is already being blocked by another offensive player.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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