Racism for Heck

[Kosar_For_President]

Who cares. I'm Irish and Jamaican, I already have 2 strikes against me. Actions speak louder then words.

[Chicopee John]

@kosar_for_president said:

Who cares. I'm Irish and Jamaican, I already have 2 strikes against me. Actions speak louder then words.

Unfortunately, Kosar, I don't give a rat's asp. Unfortunately some people do. Those on one side are called racists and those on the other 'can't be blamed because THEY have been through so much'.

Noting gets my blood boiling more than a suggestion of racism - For the record, nobody on this board ever did.

[Kosar_For_President]

@chicopee-john said:

Unfortunately, Kosar, I don't give a rat's asp. Unfortunately some people do. Those on one side are called racists and those on the other 'can't be blamed because THEY have been through so much'.

Noting gets my blood boiling more than a suggestion of racism - For the record, nobody on this board ever did.

There is a difference with people joking around, making fun of the sterotypes put forth in our society vs. Billy Bob wanting to lynch someone because he thinks THIS land belongs to him. I hate when either "side" pulls the race card. In the words of the great Beastie Boys:

Good Times Gone But You Feed It

Hate's Grown Strong You Feel You Need It

Just One Thing Do You Know

What You Think That The World Owes You

What's Gonna Set You Free

Look Inside And You'll See

When You've Got So Much To Say

It's Called Gratitude, And That's Right

[Chicopee John]

@kosar_for_president said:

There is a difference with people joking around, making fun of the sterotypes put forth in our society vs. Billy Bob wanting to lynch someone......

There you go again..................

You know the difference between a joke or two and an ingraned hatred/fear. I wish more folks did. Unfortunately, many people - especially on the left/guilt side of the aisle cannot or will not make that distinction.

Aks around.

[heckofajobbrownie]

What a silly rant. And what a ridiculous discussion about reparations and "free passes" this will become. And of Farrakhan. You know, Obama's buddy. (Jesus.) As if you needed to type all of that. Believe me, I know how you feel. It's all review.

If you're asking me if I think you're racist, Steve, the answer is ...well, yes. Kind of. I'd probably prefer to use another description that's less loaded, because no one talks about anything once that word gets thrown out. And you're right that it shouldn't be tossed out lightly. I'd think a better way to describe it would be that you relentlessly stereotype blacks in negative ways, and often seem to enjoy doing it. And yes, that's a type of racism.

What you want is for me and the rest of the world to allow you to resent blacks as a group, but to believe you're doing it for reasons unrelated to their race. You think they've earned your low opinion of them, so you should get to keep it. I get it. And you can keep it.

What I don't think you get is that your low opinions of blacks in general are horrible and largely inaccurate stereotypes that color your ability to see situations for what they are. And that's what's offensive.

Think about it: for all the appeals for me not to focus on the worst of what the Tea Partiers are, you always focus on the worst in the black community, and nothing else, and have been doing so since I've known you. And you just did it again. Some 38 million of your fellow Americans are somehow all described in the same ways - they talk funny, they're illiterate criminals on welfare, they're always whining about their problems, they suck off the government teet, they want a free pass, black culture is offensive, rap music is offensive, and you despise their race-hustling leaders. And then you actually have the complete lack of self-awareness to then suggest that you don't care about race.

I know! Clearly you don't notice it at all!

It's as if you've never met an actual black person, and instead have formed your opinion of them from watching NWA videos from the 80s. Add into that all that you've written over the years, some of which had clear racist overtones and would get you instantly fired from any public job, as we've discussed, and I can only come to the conclusion that you resent blacks as a group, and feel very little kinship with them as individual people or fellow Americans; rather, you see them as a different tribe that's trying to soak your tribe, all with the help of guilt-ridden liberals. This comes through over and over again, just like in this last bit. And that's fine, I suppose. That's what you think is true.

I don't, however, suspect that you treat blacks any different on an individual level. I also don't suspect that you run into many. After all, your notions of what constitutes black America are rather silly. They're gross stereotypes.

The fact that you're not descended from slave owners, or that John isn't, or that I'm not, isn't the point. At all. I don't talk about reparations in here, and I don't support them. They're just a right-wing obsession that has no real support in Congress, and is never going anywhere. It's just talk-show fodder for disenfranchised whites. Talking about closing black/white achievement gaps in schools, or addressing the problems of the urban poor, are not reparations discussions. Or even "backdoor reparations" discussions. Unless you're a "race-hustler" for whites.

Which you seem to have no problem with whatsoever.

[Mr. T]

Going back a few years, right out of HS, and I was listening to tv news and the radio and they were stating racism is at an alltime high, this was 1980. I was thinking to myself who the hell determined this propaganda? I attended R Nelson snider in Ft. Wayne IN. We didn't have any problems whatsoever, unlike it was while I was in Jr. high when the black folks started rioting the school because they didn't want to be bused into a white neighborhood.

IMO: Folks just want to be left alone, you cannot force desegregation, if so people will segragate themselves from others. Even during the riots there was not any animosity between the students white on black or black on white. They were ticked off at the politicians and nothing more, because everyone actually got along well and respected each other.

[Kosar_For_President]

It's funny listening to a bunch of white boys fight over what is right and wrong with racism. JK, I AM JOKING.

[Mr. T]

I think the point that most are trying to make is that there are political groups that promote racism, this is how they get their power. Without it they are nothing more than an empty suit.

[Chicopee John]

@mr.-t said:

Going back a few years, right out of HS, and I was listening to tv news and the radio and they were stating racism is at an alltime high, this was 1980. I was thinking to myself who the hell determined this propaganda? I attended R Nelson snider in Ft. Wayne IN. We didn't have any problems whatsoever, unlike it was while I was in Jr. high when the black folks started rioting the school because they didn't want to be bused into a white neighborhood.

IMO: Folks just want to be left alone, you cannot force desegregation, if so people will segragate themselves from others. Even during the riots there was not any animosity between the students white on black or black on white. They were ticked off at the politicians and nothing more, because everyone actually got along well and respected each other.

There is an excellent book written by Michael McDonald (sp), called "All Souls Day". It focuses on the turbulent times that I happened to live in Boston and it centered on life in South Boston (sometimes called Southie) and the attempt to institute bussing in Boston.

McDonald's statement won't come as a surprise given his political leanings and association with Professor Howard Zinn.

He stated that bussing was an experiment invented by eletists and used the poorest segments of society as pawns in this game (Southie Whites and Boston Blacks).

The book is very good and it touches on a number of facets of Boston in the early 70s. Will make you laugh and it will make you cry as he leaves a chilling picture in our minds.

[Westside Steve]

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h40/show

Talking about closing black/white achievement gaps in schools, or addressing the problems of the urban poor, are not reparations discussions.

Only if the way to bridge that gap is to give or take away credit from either group.

But the fact that there's no real basis for it?

Look at the list of co sponsors on HR 40.

More later.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

@westside-steve said:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h40/show

Talking about closing black/white achievement gaps in schools, or addressing the problems of the urban poor, are not reparations discussions.

Only if the way to bridge that gap is to give or take away credit from either group.

But the fact that there's no real basis for it?

Look at the list of co sponsors on HR 40.

More later.

WSS

Oh, my GOD!!! It's happening!

[DieHardBrownsFan]

As a brotha, I finds Hecks remarks admirabull.

[Chicopee John]

Just curious, Heck, have you read, "All Souls Day"?

At most you were probably a toddler then, but McDonald does an excellent job in defining and describing life in and around Southie. Characters like Louise Day Hicks, Dapper O'Neill, Whitey Bulger are quite present.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I have not.

But I grew up around there. I've got friends and relatives from Southie. If you want a lesson in what white provincialism looks like, it's a nice place to start.

Common Ground is a great book about that area. Won the Pulitzer. Highly recommend.

[VaporTrail]

Very, very applicable.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-apri...010/tea-america

I know it's the daily show, but I think everyone'll appreciate it.

[Chicopee John]

@heckofajobbrownie said:

Common Ground is a great book about that area. Won the Pulitzer. Highly recommend.

Thanks, Heck, I will check it out - the abstract looks god - and will let you know what I think.

One very fond memory of that turbulent 'Judge Garrity' era was Stevie Wonder's wonderful and heartfelt concert at the Boston Garden. Given the hightened sensitivity of that time and despite calls from the likes of Mayor Kevin White to NOT appear, Wonder thought he HAD to appear.

Coupling the political times with Wonder's masterful "Innervisions" album of that time was something I will always remember. That, and his call for calming of racial tensions and fostering relationships across all socioeconomic and ethnic groups.

Wonder was the right guy at the right place at the right time.

[heckofajobbrownie]

@vaportrail said:

Very, very applicable.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-apri...010/tea-america

I know it's the daily show, but I think everyone'll appreciate it.

Vapor, they can post all sorts of nonsense they want, day after day, from sites you've never heard of, but if you post Jon Stewart for some reason they get upset.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I just watched that clip. I don't think it's one of his better efforts. His mugging for the camera gets old real fast.

This is a much better takedown of Fox.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, let me explain why I can't do anything with this. I know you're upset, but none of this makes any sense in any real discussion.

When you guys hate someone you invariably play the race card. (Not if they're not racist. "You guys" suggests we all do this. I'm pretty sure we disagree with lots of people who aren't racists.)

I don’t love me no Obama; I’m a racist. (Clearly, that's not why I think you have crude, poorly-reasoned opinions based on stereotypes that are, yes, somewhat racist.)

Lets say one of the TP guys did call somebody a N*****. (Okay...)

That’s your focus. Bingo. The entire movement is discredited. (That's not what I've said at all. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I only mentioned it because everyone on the right seems so vested in denying it. I think it's likely that it happened. I don't think it should surprise anyone.)

Of course when it happens on your side it’s no big deal. (It is? Racism is no big deal when liberals are racist? I don't agree with that either.)

Somebody suggests (like ME) that slavery Jim Crow etc shouldn’t give an entire race a free pass and immediately you toss out the racism accusation. (For one, what you're saying is a total straw man. Who suggests that blacks be given a free pass? And a free pass on what? What are you talking about? What world is this you're imagining? Secondly, that's not why I tossed out the racism accusation. Neither of your points holds.)

Even though Obama’s pal Minister Farrakhan himself is a proponent of separate but equal (does that sound like Jim Crow to you Heck?) (Obama's pal Farrakhan? You could get more childish with your guilt by association games, but you'd have to try. Obama and Farrakhan aren't friends. Their beliefs are diametrically opposed to each other. The only similarity they have is that they're both black. Apparently, to you this means they're friends.)

And you want to compare the actions of the 19th century with today? (No, I want to suggest that denying 220 years of American history and pretending we all started this race out of the same gate is sort of ridiculous. But that's what you'd like to do.)

You ready to go to war with third world countries that still have slavery? (Huh??)

I never had any slaves. (Obviously.)

No ancestor of mine in the last century had any. (Okay.)

If you feel guilty send somebody a check. (You think it's about guilt, except that it isn't.)

Lynchings in the south years ago? Terrible thing.

Take a look at the black on white crime stats today Heck.

Or black on black. That isn’t terrible? Is that justified in your fu*ked up view?

...Steve, who the hell are you arguing against? You haven't landed a single punch here. You're so angry at this cartoon you've created in your head. Obama is hanging out with Farrakhan and they want blacks to get a free pass, and guilt-ridden liberals want to help get it for them!

How long have you been holding on to these simplistic, antiquated views of the world, since the 70s? Move on, man. Nobody is there anymore.

It reminds me of Obama's criticism of Rev. Wright, when he said he's ignoring all the progress the nation is made over the last 30 years, and that his views are outdated.

I think yours are too. They're stuck in a time warp.

[Mr. T]

@chicopee-john said:

There is an excellent book written by Michael McDonald (sp), called "All Souls Day". It focuses on the turbulent times that I happened to live in Boston and it centered on life in South Boston (sometimes called Southie) and the attempt to institute bussing in Boston.

McDonald's statement won't come as a surprise given his political leanings and association with Professor Howard Zinn.

He stated that bussing was an experiment invented by eletists and used the poorest segments of society as pawns in this game (Southie Whites and Boston Blacks).

The book is very good and it touches on a number of facets of Boston in the early 70s. Will make you laugh and it will make you cry as he leaves a chilling picture in our minds.

John , that sounds like a good book. I will check the bookstore this weekend and see if I can get a copy of it.

It is funny how some people hold resentment and try to play it off on others, maybe these left wingers who are spouting off all of these racist charges need to look in a mirror and take inventory of themselves.