Rare, But Important Demonstration of Intestinal Fortitude
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Seperation of church and state is a pretty big issue for me...... however I have attended my childrens play at church's. The facilities were more appropriate and frankly the building was beautiful.
IF there was not any messaging from the church and the facilities were being rented than who cares..... IF the church was strictly just a facility and it seems to be in this case.
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Well, I have read it several times, Vapor, and I do base my beliefs on it.
Live with it.
Well, I just wanted to point out how fallible that book is. I'd enjoy discussing this, but you seem to want to cover your ears and ignore what I have to say. How then do you decide what in the book to base your beliefs on? Surely, it isn't all of it.
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Well, I have read it several times, Vapor, and I do base my beliefs on it.
Live with it.
Well, I just wanted to point out how fallible that book is. I'd enjoy discussing this, but you seem to want to cover your ears and ignore what I have to say. How then do you decide what in the book to base your beliefs on? Surely, it isn't all of it.
Well, I just wanted to point out how fallible that book is. I'd enjoy discussing this, but you seem to want to cover your ears and ignore what I have to say. How then do you decide what in the book to base your beliefs on? Surely, it isn't all of it.
vapor your going down a predetermined trail with predetermined responses....... it will be better just to agree to disagree on that topic.....
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or we could discuss it.
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Vapor you cant use logic or ask people to apply logic to something by its very nature illogical.
The "bible" most of them dont even know what it really is. Its funny how geocentric or even culturally offensive that religion is to other societies and the applied ramifications to other cultures and peoples who were never exposed to that eclectic set of stories literally copied from other religions.
They can not discuss or debate from a historic sense anything about their religion because it would invalidate their very beliefs.
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I don't have a problem with that.
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I guess we could discuss that there is no good or evil, right or wrong.
But that'd mean you guys couldn't spend all day bitching about how evil republicans are......
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Isn't that Cal's deal with Obama?
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Isn't that Cal's deal with Obama?
Isn't that Cal's deal with Obama?
Well yeah Vape!
But Cal believes in universal good and evil.
WSS
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I guess we could discuss that there is no good or evil, right or wrong.
But that'd mean you guys couldn't spend all day bitching about how evil republicans are......
WSS
I guess we could discuss that there is no good or evil, right or wrong.
But that'd mean you guys couldn't spend all day bitching about how evil republicans are......
WSS
the Republican Party is NOT evil..... The Radical Evangelical/Neocon right and old gaurd 45+ southern/rural white demographic IS not the Whole Republican party. They just happen to be the loudest..... however they seem to be morphing into their own party right now anyways.
The Republicans screaming about deficits but also want to keep lowering taxes........ Now they are laughable o yea and they want to keep Social security and medicare.
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Vapor, I'm not sure what question you're asking. Is it merely how a book of ideas filled with contradiction can inspire?
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I guess we could discuss that there is no good or evil, right or wrong.
But that'd mean you guys couldn't spend all day bitching about how evil republicans are......
WSS
the Republican Party is NOT evil..... The Radical Evangelical/Neocon right and old gaurd 45+ southern/rural white demographic IS not the Whole Republican party. They just happen to be the loudest..... however they seem to be morphing into their own party right now anyways.
The Republicans screaming about deficits but also want to keep lowering taxes........ Now they are laughable o yea and they want to keep Social security and medicare.
the Republican Party is NOT evil..... The Radical Evangelical/Neocon right and old gaurd 45+ southern/rural white demographic IS not the Whole Republican party. They just happen to be the loudest..... however they seem to be morphing into their own party right now anyways.
The Republicans screaming about deficits but also want to keep lowering taxes........ Now they are laughable o yea and they want to keep Social security and medicare.
Gee sorry Sev.
I guess I should have said without any concept of good and evil you'd have to quit bitching about evil old southern Christian white people.
{expletive deleted}
WSS
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Vapor, I'm not sure what question you're asking. Is it merely how a book of ideas filled with contradiction can inspire?
Vapor, I'm not sure what question you're asking. Is it merely how a book of ideas filled with contradiction can inspire?
Not how, but why.
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Vapor, I'm not sure what question you're asking. Is it merely how a book of ideas filled with contradiction can inspire?
Not how, but why.
Not how, but why.
The way I take it is a book of life lessons. I try not to get too hung up on what many argue as "facts", ie the world was created in 7 days. I just don't believe that arguing either way about what I consider semantic evidence diminishes the book. The simplest way I can put my view is the example of the 10 commandments: no matter your religious belief I don't get how anyone can argue that those aren't 10 rules that if you live by will help maximize your human potential.
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Not how, but why.
The way I take it is a book of life lessons. I try not to get too hung up on what many argue as "facts", ie the world was created in 7 days. I just don't believe that arguing either way about what I consider semantic evidence diminishes the book. The simplest way I can put my view is the example of the 10 commandments: no matter your religious belief I don't get how anyone can argue that those aren't 10 rules that if you live by will help maximize your human potential.
The way I take it is a book of life lessons. I try not to get too hung up on what many argue as "facts", ie the world was created in 7 days. I just don't believe that arguing either way about what I consider semantic evidence diminishes the book. The simplest way I can put my view is the example of the 10 commandments: no matter your religious belief I don't get how anyone can argue that those aren't 10 rules that if you live by will help maximize your human potential.
I'd say the ten commandments has a good 8 rules.
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
What about all of the beautiful Roman, Indian, pagan, *insert religion here* works of art that have been created? What about every other religion that ever existed? The first commandment straight up labels all other religions as incorrect. Why does saying "god dammit" make you a bad person?
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
Okay, I can live with this one if I so choose to believe in a sabbath day, I don't see anything wrong with it.
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
Not a universal law. What if they are abusive or molest you?
SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
Okay, I can dig it, even though this is coming from a dude that committed quite a few genocides according to the good book.
SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
Don't cheat, lie, or steal? Good stuff.
TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
Don't covet? Everyone would be in jail if this were law.
So, I'd say there are four or five legit rules in the ten commandments, the rest are bs.
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I think you're being to literal with the words. By definition (at least my definition of God, all powerful, all knowing, all present) if there IS a GOD then there is only ONE GOD. It is a logical fallacy think multiple Gods could exist with the definition I laid out. All it is saying is that I am real and to worship others is to worship a falsehood.
Lords name in vain...all right definitely not as pressing as the others.
Not sure where you got the text for the 2nd but I have always known it to be do not create false idols to worship...which makes sense to me. Sort of like the way we prop celebrities as Idols. If there be a God, it would make sense to warn against "fake" idols that will appear to misguide the "spiritual". And, to me, this one does not negate religions such as the pagan or the eastern religions b/c their focus in on nature which I see as a different side to the same coin.
Your examples against 5 and 6 are kinda idiotic. There are extreme circumstances always, and notice it say murder not kill.
And to not covet is absolutely a goal to work on as a human. Coveting is the road to jealousy and while hard to achieve I believe we would all be better in a world with out jealousy.
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Actually I'd taken #3 as meaning not to take the name in vain by using it for self promotion.
Merely claiming to be a Christian to curry favor with clients associates or, uh, voters.
As for belittling the "don't covet" I guess wee'd be better off if we weren't constantly pissed off about someone else's good fortune.
WSS
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John, do you believe in the story of Mormonism? That God and Christ appeared to a teenage Joseph Smith in upstate New York in the 1820s, and eventually two angels gave Smith the golden tablets that he would later translate into the Book of Mormon?
Do you buy that?
So your point is to select a story and to try to paint me into a corner by answering one way or another.
There are many sects and many groups within Christianity. To cut through all the 'noise' certain groups like to create, I like to go to the source: the Bible.
I know that it is a compilation of stories over the course of many years. I believe it is sacred and was inspired by the work and will of God.
I don't know enough about the Book of Mormon - I have not studied it. However, why study it when the actual word of God is already available.
That's my faith and that's my belief, Heck. Why does it bother you?
So your point is to select a story and to try to paint me into a corner by answering one way or another.
There are many sects and many groups within Christianity. To cut through all the 'noise' certain groups like to create, I like to go to the source: the Bible.
I know that it is a compilation of stories over the course of many years. I believe it is sacred and was inspired by the work and will of God.
I don't know enough about the Book of Mormon - I have not studied it. However, why study it when the actual word of God is already available.
That's my faith and that's my belief, Heck. Why does it bother you?
I didn't say it bothered me. I was asking you if you believed in what the Mormons claim, which is that the Bible is incomplete, and that it's got a sequel.
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I think you're being to literal with the words. By definition (at least my definition of God, all powerful, all knowing, all present) if there IS a GOD then there is only ONE GOD. It is a logical fallacy think multiple Gods could exist with the definition I laid out.
So do you believe that there is an omnipresent, omniscient, all-good God that is watching over us and has the power to intervene?
All it is saying is that I am real and to worship others is to worship a falsehood.
What makes all the others a falsehood? What makes this one god, the true one?
Not sure where you got the text for the 2nd but I have always known it to be do not create false idols to worship...which makes sense to me. Sort of like the way we prop celebrities as Idols. If there be a God, it would make sense to warn against "fake" idols that will appear to misguide the "spiritual". And, to me, this one does not negate religions such as the pagan or the eastern religions b/c their focus in on nature which I see as a different side to the same coin.
What makes YHWH any less false than any of the other things that lead to idolatry?
Your examples against 5 and 6 are kinda idiotic. There are extreme circumstances always, and notice it say murder not kill.
There are less extreme circumstances where I can see parents not being worthy of unconditional honor. What if they just don't give a shit about their kids, why should you have to feel guilty to respect them if they can't respect you? And yes, this translation that I picked out says "murder," you can find many others that say "kill." Regardless, if you killed someone because they were fond of receiving blowjobs, what would that make you? A murderer. The god of the old testament destroyed two whole cities for that reason, that makes him a murderer in my book. You can't come up with a set of universal laws for every possible situation, it just isn't feasible.
And to not covet is absolutely a goal to work on as a human. Coveting is the road to jealousy and while hard to achieve I believe we would all be better in a world with out jealousy.
You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting something or someone.
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Why would someone dis-credit anothers opinion just because they believe in God?
Translations may have been skewed along the way, Maybe some should interest themselves into why King James had and english translation of the bible as we know it today. some say it was a control mechanism while others believed it was to sort out some of the false translations that had been handed down over the years.
As far as believing Jesus was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead, that is where your faith will come into play.
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