Day of Prayer Ritual Deemed Unconstitutional
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Earth Day isn't a religious observance, T. Neither is Labor Day or Veteran's Day or President's Day.
That would be the difference.
The government can't tell you to pray, or when, or to suggest that it prefers people who do pray over people who don't. The question is whether you think the government has stepped over that line by holding a National Day of Prayer. This judge thinks it has.
We have cases like this all the time - can the government fund a display of Jesus in the manger at Christmas time and put it in the town square? Is a Christmas tree a secular symbol or a religious one, or both? Can a school, funded entirely by the government, hold Christian prayers before school starts, or before football games?
This is why we have courts. (To rub the Republicans' noses in it! Haha!)
The government can't tell you to pray, or when, or to suggest that it prefers people who do pray over people who don't. The question is whether you think the government has stepped over that line by holding a National Day of Prayer. This judge thinks it has.
We have cases like this all the time - can the government fund a display of Jesus in the manger at Christmas time and put it in the town square? Is a Christmas tree a secular symbol or a religious one, or both? Can a school, funded entirely by the government, hold Christian prayers before school starts, or before football games?
This is where you are wrong Heck, Nobody was telling anyone they had to pray. Plus the National day of prayer isn't a violation of the first amendment. It neither creates or endorses a national religion.
Christians, Jews, Muslims all pray. I would bet that even Scientologists, Buddhists and Atheists meditate.
It is no different than saying "One Nation Under God" or saying "God Bless America".
This is why we have courts. (To rub the Republicans' noses in it! Haha!)
Judge Crabb's motives are apparent as those who brought the case forward.
All this does is setup lawyers to be able to make a buck off of those who hold onto their religous beliefs and want to have a public prayer.
The National Day of Prayer, is a simple acknowledgement as Samuel Adams said on September 6, 1774 on the second day of the Continental Congress in proposing the session be opened with prayer, in spite of the various Christian sects that were represented.
I bet Heck wants to have "In God We Trust" removed from the dollar as well, while he dances on the constitution and in spits in everybodys eye.
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wow..........
Its simple you can pray any day you want but the SEPERATION of Church and State for a Secular government is there for a reason.
Look up the Treaty of Tripoli fully ratified by the senate....... We are NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Just because some of you are and dont like it when your religion get its hand slapped by the judicial arm for over stepping constitutional grounds does not make people like myself or heck bitter.......
NO tax dollars should be funding ANY religion period..... you really want to open those doors to the myriads of other practices? I dont.....
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We WERE founded with Christian principled men in the mix.
Not as a state mandated religion, but some principles intact as a basis.
Stop your incessant whining on the subject, Sev.
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wow..........
Its simple you can pray any day you want but the SEPERATION of Church and State for a Secular government is there for a reason.
Look up the Treaty of Tripoli fully ratified by the senate....... We are NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Just because some of you are and dont like it when your religion get its hand slapped by the judicial arm for over stepping constitutional grounds does not make people like myself or heck bitter.......
NO tax dollars should be funding ANY religion period..... you really want to open those doors to the myriads of other practices? I dont.....
wow..........
Its simple you can pray any day you want but the SEPERATION of Church and State for a Secular government is there for a reason.
Look up the Treaty of Tripoli fully ratified by the senate....... We are NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Just because some of you are and dont like it when your religion get its hand slapped by the judicial arm for over stepping constitutional grounds does not make people like myself or heck bitter.......
NO tax dollars should be funding ANY religion period..... you really want to open those doors to the myriads of other practices? I dont.....
Sev, no tax dollars were involved with the National Day of Prayer.
But dont think that we are treading on dangerous ground with the hatred that is being spewed from the left? You can feel the venom in their speech.
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We WERE founded with Christian principled men in the mix.
Not as a state mandated religion, but some principles intact as a basis.
Stop your incessant whining on the subject, Sev.
We WERE founded with Christian principled men in the mix.
Not as a state mandated religion, but some principles intact as a basis.
Stop your incessant whining on the subject, Sev.
first of all those "principles" are not inherently"christian" considering that religion is a little of 2k years old...... those principles are in many religions and its well documented in legal treaties and by quite a few of the founding fathers we were not formed to be a christian nation..... get over it.
I'm not"whining" go educate yourself on some history....
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wow..........
Its simple you can pray any day you want but the SEPERATION of Church and State for a Secular government is there for a reason.
Look up the Treaty of Tripoli fully ratified by the senate....... We are NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Just because some of you are and dont like it when your religion get its hand slapped by the judicial arm for over stepping constitutional grounds does not make people like myself or heck bitter.......
NO tax dollars should be funding ANY religion period..... you really want to open those doors to the myriads of other practices? I dont.....
wow..........
Its simple you can pray any day you want but the SEPERATION of Church and State for a Secular government is there for a reason.
Yes.
It was put in play in the 19th century to keep the Spanish and French from getting a foothold in the south.
As for your bitterness, who knows Sev?
Maybe it just makes you feel like a big man to hate Christians.
Ironically similar to you're own portrayal of those who want to stop gay marriage.
Why should I give a rats ass about two men getting married OR haviing a traditional day of prayer?
Just to be a prick?
WSS
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Um, because there are important Constitutional issues at stake?
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Um, because there are important Constitutional issues at stake?
Um, because there are important Constitutional issues at stake?
Um, no.
How about someone decided that MLK day was racist and petitioned the SC to have it abolished on constitutional grounds.
Would you think that was merely an attempt to follow that presumed constitutional directive concerning fairness, or just someone being a prick?
WSS
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Can either Heck or Steve please tell me how this breaks down into a Separation of Church and State. Prayer doesn't signify any religion, so how is it a matter of church v state. I haven't gone to church (read an organized religious event) in years, but it hasn't been more than 2 months since I prayed. And has far as the difference between meditation (to include the Eastern religions) and prayer are merely semantic. They are two sides of the same coin. Being that there was no mandate...nor government altered activities (ie Congress not in session) I just don't see how it applies.
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Can either Heck or Steve please tell me how this breaks down into a Separation of Church and State. Prayer doesn't signify any religion, so how is it a matter of church v state. I haven't gone to church (read an organized religious event) in years, but it hasn't been more than 2 months since I prayed. And has far as the difference between meditation (to include the Eastern religions) and prayer are merely semantic. They are two sides of the same coin. Being that there was no mandate...nor government altered activities (ie Congress not in session) I just don't see how it applies.
I would agree with the ruling. I think prayer is an inherently religious function, it has no place in my life as an atheist, why should the government be urging me to do something that is religious. I would, however, say that prayer is a very specific form of meditation. Meditation is not inherently religious, if it were the national day of meditation, where the government urged me to sit back, relax, and meditate, then that would not signify religion and I don't think that atheists would take issue with it.
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Never been in a "foxhole" have you, Vape?
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Can either Heck or Steve please tell me how this breaks down into a Separation of Church and State. Prayer doesn't signify any religion, so how is it a matter of church v state. I haven't gone to church (read an organized religious event) in years, but it hasn't been more than 2 months since I prayed. And has far as the difference between meditation (to include the Eastern religions) and prayer are merely semantic. They are two sides of the same coin. Being that there was no mandate...nor government altered activities (ie Congress not in session) I just don't see how it applies.
Can either Heck or Steve please tell me how this breaks down into a Separation of Church and State. Prayer doesn't signify any religion, so how is it a matter of church v state. I haven't gone to church (read an organized religious event) in years, but it hasn't been more than 2 months since I prayed. And has far as the difference between meditation (to include the Eastern religions) and prayer are merely semantic. They are two sides of the same coin. Being that there was no mandate...nor government altered activities (ie Congress not in session) I just don't see how it applies.
It's basically what Vapor is saying.
The argument goes that the government has no place suggesting that the nation should pray, which is an inherently religious exercise, or when, or whether to pray or not. And that in doing so, the government is saying that it favors people who pray over those that don't, and that the government must steer clear of promoting or sanctioning any religious exercise.
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/edit @John
Yes, because everyone who's ever been in a battle believed that there was a divine power looking over them. My never having been in a foxhole is completely irrelevant. My grandfather was a marine, but he's an atheist, my dad was in the Army, and he's a theist. Being shot at has no bearing on your belief in a higher power. You may wish one is there, and you may wish that someone's watching over you, but that doesn't equate to belief, what you hold to be true.
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first of all those "principles" are not inherently"christian" considering that religion is a little of 2k years old...... those principles are in many religions and its well documented in legal treaties and by quite a few of the founding fathers we were not formed to be a christian nation..... get over it. Sev boo-hooing
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you WERE whining.
those "principles" are existent in other religions? go read Joseph Campbell's "Hero of a Thousand Faces"
and grow up on your retorts. The commonality of how man views the universe in man's own understanding
is -universal-, Sev - it has it's common aspects from the very beginning of the existence of humans on this planet.
We have no national religion, thank goodness, but some of the Founders were Christians, some not...
but those Principles are still in place.
The fact that some of those principles also appear elsewhere has nothing to do with anything, unless you think
the Founding Fathers were Buddist, Muslim and other, more obsure and ancient religions.
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Of course the president should make judgments based on personal morality when it's something his pals agree with.
WSS
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This isn't a judgment about personal morality. If you want to pray, go ahead and do it, don't feel guilty about it, you don't have to. The government just doesn't have any place encouraging people to take part in religious activities.
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So, by ALLOWING someone to do something, you are encouraging it.
so, you discourage it, so as not to ENcourage it?
College kids warp my mind.
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This isn't a judgment about personal morality. If you want to pray, go ahead and do it, don't feel guilty about it, you don't have to. The government just doesn't have any place encouraging people to take part in religious activities.
This isn't a judgment about personal morality. If you want to pray, go ahead and do it, don't feel guilty about it, you don't have to. The government just doesn't have any place encouraging people to take part in religious activities.
Just to enforce moral behavior ?
WSS
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Moral behavior? Good one.
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Yes, if a government approves of a National Day and celebrates it, it's sanctioning that activity. It's approving of it. That's why we have a National Day of Prayer, and not a National Day of Animal Sacrifice.
The question then becomes whether you've crossed the line between sanctioning/recognizing it and promoting it over other beliefs - in this case, those of non-believers, or those who don't pray. The Constitution doesn't allow the government to have a preference.
It's also a question of whether the government should have any role in promoting this at all, as it's clearly a religious exercise. The government is only supposed to perform secular functions.
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