Daboll and his pathetic playcalling
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I know the turnovers were bad, but what about the playcalling? It's as if Daboll went to a conservative offense after scoring 2 tds early in the game and stopped stretching the field. If you can't make a d respect the pass, all they're going to do is stack the box with about 7-9 men, shut down the run and dare you to pass on them. The momentum completely shifted from the Browns to the Bucs and Daboll waited till the end of the 4th q to start throwing passes downfield. And I'm not necessarily saying they should've just thrown deep passes. A 10-30 yd pass here and there would keep a defense playing honest.
Jim Donovan said there were times when the bucs had 10 men stacked in the box. If you don't mix in a pass downfield and the d stacks the box, your rbs will basically be trying to run through a meat grinder.
The other thing that I don't understand about Daboll's play calling is that it seems like it's based around lateral passes, short passes and slants with the hopes that the receiver can break a tackle and get some yards after the catch. The problem with this is that Daboll seems to go to the well too much with the whole short passing game and defenses know that. Why drop men into coverage when the Browns aren't stretching the field? It makes it easy for the opposing d to adjust to a conservative playcalling offense.
And the defense played a damn good game. How much more can they do when the damn offesne is gong 3 and out on their 10 yd line which leads to a punt that give the opposing offense a short field to play with? It's just frustrating to see the mistakes, the turnovers, but the playcalling, imho, was suspect and it looked like Daboll was calling plays for BQ and DA. It seemed like Tampa couldn't stop guys like Mo Mass. Why stop and go conservative then wait when it's too late to call plays downfield? Freeman was given more free reign to throw than Delhomme was (and Jake is the vet, go figure).
The play calling was way too predictable. I guess I'm trying to say that the play calling hurt the Browns just like the turnovers did. Daboll should've kept calling passes downfield instead of getting conservative after getting 2 tds.
That's because after the halftime adjustments the Bucs made, you didn't have a chance. We shut you down. Wasn't much you could do offensively after we figured you tools out.
That's because after the halftime adjustments the Bucs made, you didn't have a chance. We shut you down. Wasn't much you could do offensively after we figured you tools out.
It's very true....Daboll does not adjust at halftime ever. We go into the game with one game plan and if that doesn't work there are no adjustments. We were moving the ball well in the first half and Tampa made adjustments at halftime and we don't and even though the defense continued to play well through the 3rd quarter, the defense runs out of gas in the 4th quarter and it just doesn't work when you're only up 4 points. We played the 2nd half like we were up 30 instead of 4.
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I agree Mark....we didn't adjust.
You don't make adjustments hitting the field in the 2nd half, but you better be ready to adjust to their adjustments if their adjustments are working.
I am still pumped about next week, but a loss today takes a little luster off the whole deal.
Next week is a must win game....as is the week after that.
We have to start getting in to the positive side of the record, and then work to keep it there. We can't keep getting 2-3 games under .500 3-4-5 games in to the season.
I don't think anyone is expecting the Super Bowl other than Rob Ryan, but I do think most expect a season with-in a game of .500... either way.
This was a good opportunity to start on a positive note, and pissed it away.
My feeling is not only we better win next week, my feeling is we need to roll the Chiefs by 25 points. The fans are tired of biting nails with a minute to play. The players and coaches should be tired of it as well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I think they guessed exactly right on a few running plays here and there. ... but
also, they seemed to go after the right side of the Browns' oline.
Smart move; it's a freakin weakness. What happened to Ben Watson? Did he get banged up,
or was the Buc defense too fast for him to get open? They WERE fast.
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I agree Mark....we didn't adjust.
You don't make adjustments hitting the field in the 2nd half, but you better be ready to adjust to their adjustments if their adjustments are working.
I am still pumped about next week, but a loss today takes a little luster off the whole deal.
Next week is a must win game....as is the week after that.
We have to start getting in to the positive side of the record, and then work to keep it there. We can't keep getting 2-3 games under .500 3-4-5 games in to the season.
I don't think anyone is expecting the Super Bowl other than Rob Ryan, but I do think most expect a season with-in a game of .500... either way.
This was a good opportunity to start on a positive note, and pissed it away.
My feeling is not only we better win next week, my feeling is we need to roll the Chiefs by 25 points. The fans are tired of biting nails with a minute to play. The players and coaches should be tired of it as well.
I agree Mark....we didn't adjust.
You don't make adjustments hitting the field in the 2nd half, but you better be ready to adjust to their adjustments if their adjustments are working.
I am still pumped about next week, but a loss today takes a little luster off the whole deal.
Next week is a must win game....as is the week after that.
We have to start getting in to the positive side of the record, and then work to keep it there. We can't keep getting 2-3 games under .500 3-4-5 games in to the season.
I don't think anyone is expecting the Super Bowl other than Rob Ryan, but I do think most expect a season with-in a game of .500... either way.
This was a good opportunity to start on a positive note, and pissed it away.
My feeling is not only we better win next week, my feeling is we need to roll the Chiefs by 25 points. The fans are tired of biting nails with a minute to play. The players and coaches should be tired of it as well.
I'm with you. I'm excited for next week as well. This was not only a winnable game but one that we SHOULD have won. The int at the end of the half hurt but we were still up 4 and we had moved the ball well all half.
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I think they guessed exactly right on a few running plays here and there. ... but
also, they seemed to go after the right side of the Browns' oline.
Smart move; it's a freakin weakness. What happened to Ben Watson? Did he get banged up,
or was the Buc defense too fast for him to get open? They WERE fast.
I think they guessed exactly right on a few running plays here and there. ... but
also, they seemed to go after the right side of the Browns' oline.
Smart move; it's a freakin weakness. What happened to Ben Watson? Did he get banged up,
or was the Buc defense too fast for him to get open? They WERE fast.
the play calling looked like crap and it helped swing the momentum of the game to the bucs. the coaches have to put the players in a position to win and daboll and co. did a pathetic job at that. we were rolling along fine until daboll went butch davis conservative after scoring 2 tds early in the game. once he did that and stopped passing downfield, the bucs put anywhere from 7-9 men in the box on a regular and on occasion 10 men in the box. i don't care how good your line and running game is. that's the ingredients to self destruction on offense and it's a defensive coordinator's dream.
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That was the most frustrating loss I can remember in a while.
It all came down to the interception Jake threw right before the half. That play determined the game, no question.
Four scenarios could have happened before that play occurred.
1) The Browns go in for a TD to make it 21-3 at half
2) The Browns get a field goal to make it 17-3 at half
3) The Browns get nothing and it's 14-3 at half
4) Jake throws a momentum-changing INT that TB converts into a TD to make it 14-10 at half.
Now, in any of the first three scenarios, this is the Browns game at halftime. It's over. Tampa Bay had nothing going on offense ALL day. Their first score came largely on a broken play scramble by Freeman. And their last TD drive was the only legitimate one of the game. They had chance after chance in the second half and came up with just 7 points.
The point being is that if this is a two-score game at the half, it's over with. That INT was just a killer.
Now I don't know if that made Daboll more conservative or not in the second half. But what I do know is that I would have liked to have seen Wallace a little more, especially after Jake came up a little gimpy. Wallace might have given us some spark.
I am not ready to hang this loss on the coaches (although we could have managed the clock a bit better on the next-to-last drive by calling a timeout before the 4th and 3 play). The Browns have to play mistake-free football to win. Plain and simple. And when you are putting the ball in the other team's hands (Hillis & Jake I am looking at you) in clutch situations, you will lose.
This is a very tough loss, because it was a game the Browns could have and should have won. We will see the character in this team when it comes time to play next Sunday in front of the home folks.
While I am very disappointed in knowing that this team let one get away, I am still looking forward to the home opener.
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That was the most frustrating loss I can remember in a while.
It all came down to the interception Jake threw right before the half. That play determined the game, no question.
Four scenarios could have happened before that play occurred.
1) The Browns go in for a TD to make it 21-3 at half
2) The Browns get a field goal to make it 17-3 at half
3) The Browns get nothing and it's 14-3 at half
4) Jake throws a momentum-changing INT that TB converts into a TD to make it 14-10 at half.
Now, in any of the first three scenarios, this is the Browns game at halftime. It's over. Tampa Bay had nothing going on offense ALL day. Their first score came largely on a broken play scramble by Freeman. And their last TD drive was the only legitimate one of the game. They had chance after chance in the second half and came up with just 7 points.
The point being is that if this is a two-score game at the half, it's over with. That INT was just a killer.
Now I don't know if that made Daboll more conservative or not in the second half. But what I do know is that I would have liked to have seen Wallace a little more, especially after Jake came up a little gimpy. Wallace might have given us some spark.
I am not ready to hang this loss on the coaches (although we could have managed the clock a bit better on the next-to-last drive by calling a timeout before the 4th and 3 play). The Browns have to play mistake-free football to win. Plain and simple. And when you are putting the ball in the other team's hands (Hillis & Jake I am looking at you) in clutch situations, you will lose.
This is a very tough loss, because it was a game the Browns could have and should have won. We will see the character in this team when it comes time to play next Sunday in front of the home folks.
While I am very disappointed in knowing that this team let one get away, I am still looking forward to the home opener.
Now I don't know if that made Daboll more conservative or not in the second half.
dude, daboll went conservative waaaay before jake's int. he went conservative after the 2nd td. no excuses for the coaching staff. they need to be held accountable to. da and bq aren't here any more. daboll should stop calling plays like a little bitch and show some aggression on offense early and often enough to make the opposing d play honest. the browns predictable play calling on offense after 2 tds early in the game made it easy for the bucs dc to adjust to the browns BEFORE half time. no excuses for daboll and co. they hurt the browns and helped make the bucs job easier.
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No one play determines a game unless it's the last play.
That fumble on the 8 had just as big a impact.
The nice defensive play to tip the ball, but it went straight up and caught by the Buc was another.
You could probably find 20 plays in that game that would have changed the game had they gone differently.
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a good oc is going to exploit inexperienced players in the opposing team's secondary. but not daoll. daboll makes them feel like hall of famers and let's them build up their confidence till they feel like defensive pro bowlers.
i know it's not the end of the season or the end of the world lol. but this crap has to stop asap. holmgren, please talk to your oc and hc. and feel free to use cuss words.
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Now I don't know if that made Daboll more conservative or not in the second half.
dude, daboll went conservative waaaay before jake's int. he went conservative after the 2nd td. no excuses for the coaching staff. they need to be held accountable to. da and bq aren't here any more. daboll should stop calling plays like a little bitch and show some aggression on offense early and often enough to make the opposing d play honest. the browns predictable play calling on offense after 2 tds early in the game made it easy for the bucs dc to adjust to the browns BEFORE half time. no excuses for daboll and co. they hurt the browns and helped make the bucs job easier.
dude, daboll went conservative waaaay before jake's int. he went conservative after the 2nd td. no excuses for the coaching staff. they need to be held accountable to. da and bq aren't here any more. daboll should stop calling plays like a little bitch and show some aggression on offense early and often enough to make the opposing d play honest. the browns predictable play calling on offense after 2 tds early in the game made it easy for the bucs dc to adjust to the browns BEFORE half time. no excuses for daboll and co. they hurt the browns and helped make the bucs job easier.
SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
I do agree that the offense buttoned it up in the second half. That's not even arguable. But if you read my previous post I am wondering if the conservative play calling had anything to do with Jake's pick or the apparent toe injury.
And 'peen, c'mon, that pick was the play of the game. Take that one away and it's a Browns victory. Tampa doesn't get to 14 points in the second half.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
dude, daboll went conservative waaaay before jake's int. he went conservative after the 2nd td. no excuses for the coaching staff. they need to be held accountable to. da and bq aren't here any more. daboll should stop calling plays like a little bitch and show some aggression on offense early and often enough to make the opposing d play honest. the browns predictable play calling on offense after 2 tds early in the game made it easy for the bucs dc to adjust to the browns BEFORE half time. no excuses for daboll and co. they hurt the browns and helped make the bucs job easier.
SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
I do agree that the offense buttoned it up in the second half. That's not even arguable. But if you read my previous post I am wondering if the conservative play calling had anything to do with Jake's pick or the apparent toe injury.
And 'peen, c'mon, that pick was the play of the game. Take that one away and it's a Browns victory. Tampa doesn't get to 14 points in the second half.
SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
I do agree that the offense buttoned it up in the second half. That's not even arguable. But if you read my previous post I am wondering if the conservative play calling had anything to do with Jake's pick or the apparent toe injury.
And 'peen, c'mon, that pick was the play of the game. Take that one away and it's a Browns victory. Tampa doesn't get to 14 points in the second half.
There is no way to know what would or wouldn't have happened in the 2nd half. And ballpeen is right...no one play determines the outcome of the game unless it is the last play of the game.
It certainly didn't help things, but it wasn't the reason why we lost the game. We lost that game because of turnovers and because we didn't score a point in the last 30 minutes of the game. Hard to win when you take the 2nd half of from scoring.
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dude, daboll went conservative waaaay before jake's int. he went conservative after the 2nd td. no excuses for the coaching staff. they need to be held accountable to. da and bq aren't here any more. daboll should stop calling plays like a little bitch and show some aggression on offense early and often enough to make the opposing d play honest. the browns predictable play calling on offense after 2 tds early in the game made it easy for the bucs dc to adjust to the browns BEFORE half time. no excuses for daboll and co. they hurt the browns and helped make the bucs job easier.
SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
I do agree that the offense buttoned it up in the second half. That's not even arguable. But if you read my previous post I am wondering if the conservative play calling had anything to do with Jake's pick or the apparent toe injury.
And 'peen, c'mon, that pick was the play of the game. Take that one away and it's a Browns victory. Tampa doesn't get to 14 points in the second half.
SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
i just skimmed throught the game again to see the browns offense in the first half and the only series they were aggressive on (playcalling wise) was the very first one with the mo mass td pass. the remaining series in the first half (before the jake int.) were conservative, including the series with the 2nd td. so the browns went to a conservative o way before jake threw an int at the end of the 2nd q. i was just saying that i thought the browns should've mixed up the playcalling instead of just playing it safe/playing not to lose (early in the game). jmo.
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SJ,
I disagree with you here. Jake threw the pick in the series RIGHT after Hillis' TD to make it 14-3. And he did so after three consecutive throws to move us near field goal range. There was no conservative play calling in there.
i just skimmed throught the game again to see the browns offense in the first half and the only series they were aggressive on (playcalling wise) was the very first one with the mo mass td pass. the remaining series in the first half (before the jake int.) were conservative, including the series with the 2nd td. so the browns went to a conservative o way before jake threw an int at the end of the 2nd q. i was just saying that i thought the browns should've mixed up the playcalling instead of just playing it safe/playing not to lose (early in the game). jmo.
i just skimmed throught the game again to see the browns offense in the first half and the only series they were aggressive on (playcalling wise) was the very first one with the mo mass td pass. the remaining series in the first half (before the jake int.) were conservative, including the series with the 2nd td. so the browns went to a conservative o way before jake threw an int at the end of the 2nd q. i was just saying i thought the browns should've mixed up the playcalling instead of just playing it safe/playing not to lose. jmo.
Point taken. And I agree.
We really had no field position to work with in the 2nd half, but you know what? You need to make field position by moving the chains and this offense was constantly 3rd and more than 5 in the second half. That was due in large part to running the ball with 8/9 in the box on first down. That's another reason why I thought we needed to mix in Seneca at QB in the second half. TB had no respect for our offense in the second half and rightly so. But there's a difference between being conservative and establishing the running game. I think the Browns were conservative in the second half, but not the first half. TB only started stacking the box consistently in the 2nd half and when you're running at that, that's playing it close to the vest.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
i know the turnovers hurt to. i mentioned that in my op and a few other posts. but good playcalling can set a team up for success and a lack of good placycalling can set a team up for failure. that's why i put alot of blame on the playcalling.
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i just skimmed throught the game again to see the browns offense in the first half and the only series they were aggressive on (playcalling wise) was the very first one with the mo mass td pass. the remaining series in the first half (before the jake int.) were conservative, including the series with the 2nd td. so the browns went to a conservative o way before jake threw an int at the end of the 2nd q. i was just saying i thought the browns should've mixed up the playcalling instead of just playing it safe/playing not to lose. jmo.
Point taken. And I agree.
We really had no field position to work with in the 2nd half, but you know what? You need to make field position by moving the chains and this offense was constantly 3rd and more than 5 in the second half. That was due in large part to running the ball with 8/9 in the box on first down. That's another reason why I thought we needed to mix in Seneca at QB in the second half. TB had no respect for our offense in the second half and rightly so. But there's a difference between being conservative and establishing the running game. I think the Browns were conservative in the second half, but not the first half. TB only started stacking the box consistently in the 2nd half and when you're running at that, that's playing it close to the vest.
Point taken. And I agree.
We really had no field position to work with in the 2nd half, but you know what? You need to make field position by moving the chains and this offense was constantly 3rd and more than 5 in the second half. That was due in large part to running the ball with 8/9 in the box on first down. That's another reason why I thought we needed to mix in Seneca at QB in the second half. TB had no respect for our offense in the second half and rightly so. But there's a difference between being conservative and establishing the running game. I think the Browns were conservative in the second half, but not the first half. TB only started stacking the box consistently in the 2nd half and when you're running at that, that's playing it close to the vest.
we agree on most points and disagree on maybe one or two and that's cool. i respect your opinion and i think that's like wise. you made some great points to. i agree that they started stacking the box on the browns in the second half. they went into the locker room at half time and probably said if the browns aren't going to throw downfield, we're going to adjust to that. unfortunately for us, it worked.
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How exactly is Daboll supposed to stop Jake Delhomme from throwing picks ? No Offensive Co-ordinator can succeed in his playcalling if his QB is throwing risky passes.
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massaqua goes up. splits two defenders and trots in for a td. maybe if we had a qb (when god, please?) that could withstand the heat for a millisecond and find the open receiver we'd have a chance.
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Before we hang DaBoll High and Dry we need to realise that Tampa did have a top notch pass defense last year (top 10 in pass defense).
Our first touchdown pass to Momass could have very easily been picked off. We were saved by the inexperience of the guy on the defensive side. Running was the best option we had and Morris seems to have had a solid draft with the defense. If you take away the interceptions then we could have won even with the "conservative " play calling. This one is more on the players than on Daboll.
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