FIRE Mangini and Daboll NOW
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Wait - wasn't it just a short year ago yinz were all hailing the hiring of mangina as the next coming of Christ?
Didn't I say yinz were all full of shit and mangina would be a colossal failure?
Just chalk that up as yet another thing I was right about and trust me - being right all the time is a tough job.
Regards....
... an'at
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First post ever. Mangini is gone. thank god.
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First post ever. Mangini is gone. thank god.
First post ever. Mangini is gone. thank god.
No he isn't...
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First post ever. Mangini is gone. thank god.
No he isn't...
No he isn't...
Yeah, he is.. My sources have indicated he was fired after the post game presser.
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Yeah, he is.. My sources have indicated he was fired after the post game presser.
My sources have indicated... dude... really... STFU!
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Yeah, he is.. My sources have indicated he was fired after the post game presser.
My sources have indicated... dude... really... STFU!
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STFU, Loyalty. You have no clout on this forum.
And Btw, 651 post to your 51 posts. Game set match, beyotch.
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Come on! Dawson misses a FG every other millenium. He won so many games that we cannot say it's his fault.
Daboll must be fired on the spot!
Come on! Dawson misses a FG every other millenium. He won so many games that we cannot say it's his fault.
Daboll must be fired on the spot!
I agree. Firing Mangini right now is not the answer. But we need to get rid of Daboll. I am tired of seeing conservative offensive play calling in the second half when we have the lead. The time for that is late in the 4th. Daboll just doesn't have the chops to put together 4 quarters of an aggressive game plan. It is the same as last year. Games lost in the 2nd half.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
Yes it is... But not completely unfounded. This is the second week in a row that we played to lose.
Last week we should have made the call and took out JD... we didn't, we lost.
This week, we played to lose. We had a lead, and our game plan of run-run-throw-punt really took KC's defense for whirlwind didn't it. Romeo Crennel adjusted, we didn't.
We are 0-2. Not because we played the Pats and the Colts or Baltimore or Pitts... we are 0-2 against two teams that we should have beat (Mind you again, we were winning and failed to finish).
It was said, that Vrabel new the plays before they were even called. Are the execution issues from the players yes.. but the game plan was horrendous after the half.
Daboll should be on very thin ice right now from the weight of Holmgren if you know what I mean.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
I agree. It's not the OC's fault that you have no playmakers on offense. Would everyone rather he throw the ball downfield and have 6INT's, and lose by 20 instead of losing by 3?
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
I agree. It's not the OC's fault that you have no playmakers on offense. Would everyone rather he throw the ball downfield and have 6INT's, and lose by 20 instead of losing by 3?
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Mangini & Daboll are too completely different aspects of the team. While I favor taking a look at either giving Dabolls OC position an upgrade or more focus from talking heads like Holmgren, Mangini is fine. It isn't Mangini's fault that the players are making errors/penalties, missing field goals, throwing pick-6's, and fumbling.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
It cannot be competitive against the playoff contenders but we sure are good enough to beat Tampa Bay and Kansas and when one looks at the first half for both the games, It sure seems like it was not a tough thing to do.
we have enough talent to hang on to games and maybe win a few. But we have way too many intangibles that punish us and ultimately lead to our defeat.
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Cool post, Earl.
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your all gettin wacked
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
The only change I saw was really that of subbing in Harrison for Hillis. It seemed like the only times Hillis came in during the second half was to block on passing plays. A strategy that I don't get at all, but hey, hindsight is 20/20.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
The only change I saw was really that of subbing in Harrison for Hillis. It seemed like the only times Hillis came in during the second half was to block on passing plays. A strategy that I don't get at all, but hey, hindsight is 20/20.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
I didn't mean to say that there are NO adjustments to be made at half. You can change up blocking schemes to help a struggling player. You can decide to switch Hillis for Harrison. You can decide to change your tendency, mix up coverages, stunt the line or blitz more. What I am saying is that this is an over-rated part of the game. You don't have that much time and what I am seeing in the second half isn't (IMHO) because of adjustments or lack thereof. I'm seeing a lot of offensive guys not executing. Other than that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Respectfully, of course.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
Very true...but I think that's a players thing as well as a coaches thing....
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